this things a DOG....

[dodgethis91cmns]

Just started tinkering with my new soon to be Daily driver. its a 1997 2500 12valve 5 spd (215hp motor). ive driven it two or three times on my road (its not totally legal yet) and this thing is a dog. it seems as though it doesnt really get moving until around 2200 rpm. i know theres tons of mods you can do the IP on these things but is there a free mod that will bring on some power a little sooner?

[Mopar1973Man]

Yes there is you can readjust the starwheel and smoke screw and get the power on sooner. But I tend to wonder if you timing has slipped a bit and become retarded. The 1994-1998 12V are known to slip timing... http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/cummins/2ndgen12v/p-pump/afc.htm http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/cummins/2ndgen12v/p-pump/afc-smoke.htm

[dodgethis91cmns]

Is there any quick way to check timing? I think if im not mistaken you need a dial indicator. My first gen has marks on the ip and timing case. My idle is a wee bit low as well. Its a hair under 500 and i beleive its supposed to be 780 could that be a retarded timing issue as well

[Mopar1973Man]

Know there is a way to set stock timing without a dial indicator. Get a hold of ISX and he can walk you through the process of getting that timing setup.

[ISX]

I just made an article, sending it to mike to put in the 12V writeups. I'll tell him to link it back here when he gets done since I am hardly on anymore.

[Mopar1973Man]

Yeap... I got the article and get it posted up first thing in the morning for ya... I'll post again and put a link up...

[mr.mindless]

Yup, the stock timing can be set with a pin in the IP and the timing pin in the motor. Tightening the pump gear without spinning things can be a serious _____ though. I don't know if the timing pin in the pump is strong enough to keep the pump still while tightening without shearing.When I was setting mine I had to compensate for pump rotation, made it take about 5 tries.

[Mopar1973Man]

Got it done the article is here... http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/cummins/2ndgen12v/p-pump/timing-check.htm

[ISX]

Yup, the stock timing can be set with a pin in the IP and the timing pin in the motor. Tightening the pump gear without spinning things can be a serious _____ though. I don't know if the timing pin in the pump is strong enough to keep the pump still while tightening without shearing.

When I was setting mine I had to compensate for pump rotation, made it take about 5 tries.

NO! Why do you think mine is broke I didn't mean to turn it but there was some gear play and... It would be much wiser to just keep it in the middle of the hole rather than try and lock it. That lock should only be used after the timing gear nut is loose and there is no chance of turning the injection pump.

--- Update to the previous post...

I am actually thinking timing isn't the issue here, but it's easy enough to check. I believe you probably have the stock 3" exhaust, muffler and all. I would look into straight piping it as that will get it flowing better. I would also do the AFC mods and move the fuel plate back. Truth be known, these trucks stock WERE a dog. The AFC is where most of the problems lie. You can do a lot more and get it to where it lights up at 1500 or lower, like mine, but it is best to tinker with it yourself and figure out what each thing does since these trucks have no ECM to run the engine so you can't just put a chip on it and say "more power". Chips do many things to many variables that we have to do one by one on our 12V's, which can be nice at times and a chore at other times.

[Mopar1973Man]

I would run the AFC starwheel down as far as it will go. This will bring on fuel as quickly as possible. Might even slide the plate forward a bit and see how it all works out... But still it would be a good idea at least check the timing...

[Rogan]

If your 12V is stock (O.P.), then after 22-2300rpm, it's gonna fall down, anyway..fuel plategovernor springsboost elbowfilteregt gaugeexhaustenjoyIf it's an auto, then get ready for slippage/trans replacement. since yours is 5 speed, your clutch may start to show signs of weakness if stock.

[dodgethis91cmns]

Hey guys sorry ive been m.i.a i havent had a chance to check on this thread until today.Isx- great writeup on finding out if ur timing is accurate. The only thing is im a little scared because getting the truck to TDC seems like a chore...and i dont have a dial indicator or a barring tool.I deffinatly want to check it...guess ill have to grow a set. Mopar man- ill take your advice on the starwheel. Now so i got it straight forward with the fuel plate= more fuel, back=less??

[Mopar1973Man]

Well first thing... Q: Do you have pyrometer and boost gauges? If yes you can slide the plate forward some to add to the fuel but back towards the cab reduces fuel. Now if you really want to go nuts you could pull the plate and AFC control completely off and run like ISX with 27 MPG... But I wouldn't suggest that for any novice Cummins owner especially without gauges. As for the starwheel you can change that with too much worry of change EGT's because its still limited by the plate.

[MnTom]

dodgethis91cmns, I have a couple of questions for you. First of all does your truck smoke white when you start it cold (I mean excessive, eye burning type)? Does it run rough when you start it cold and have trouble reving up until it gets run and builds a little heat? Does it seem to have a miss when cold? Those are symptoms of retarded timing. Does your truck have a cat on it? Chances are it does and it would be in front of the muffler under the passenger floor. They are known to clog and that will cause it to be a real dog too. That will also cause the EGTs to run high too. BOTH of those have happened to my truck.......