Help!-Brake Job Gone Wrong

[jamman]

Here is the story:

Front brakes grinding. I know I'm goingto find metal to metal. I open it up and....metal on metal.

.

I did reading in my manual and postedon a site and found out that with the 4x4 hub and such that thisisn't just as simple as a 2wd set up. I find the trick to use asocket and extension to help ease off the rotor and hub assembly.

I got the axle nut off or rather, loosened(they were easy.I don't know if someone didn't tighten them back up after servicingbefore or what).

But I've got big issues now.

I loosened all the nuts and put thesocket and extension on the top one on the front side. I had the wifeturn the wheel and we did that and kept trying. I loosened it somemore. While pressure is on it I beat on the back side of it. I thinkmaybe it's ready. I have her back off the steering and turn off thetruck. I take out the 4 bolts on the back side as I think I'm aboutto pull the rotor and hub off....

I start to pull and notice, “Hey,that U-joint is coming with this!” So I stop and this is where Iam.

How up a creek am I? I still haven'tfixed the originial problem(get the rotor off and replace with a newone and a new caliper). What the world do I do about this axle shaft?I jacked up that side to try and keep the diff fluid in, but have Ijacked up seals? Am I now going to have to break into my transfercase?

I am a 4x4 neophyte. I've never workedon the actual 4x4 parts before. And of course I'm doing this workwhile broke so I'm trying not to spend anything I don't have to orwouldn't be prudent to go ahead and replace while I'm in there.

So, where am I guys? How do I proceed?

jamman

[dripley]

You need to get a good size gear puller and pull the hub of of the axle. Hopefully it want be to difficult. that just depends on how stuck the axle is in the hub. I dont know how much more differant my 02 is than your 99, but i took my axles out when I did the same job and did not screw up the seals. I would think you just need to go ahead and pull the axle out all the way and put it on a bench to pull the hubs off of the axle. I know you are on a tight budget, but if you can replace the u joints while you have it apart it could save you some heartache later.

[jamman]

So, how tough is it doing the U-joints? If I need to do it, now is the time. Mr. Credit Card will get more of a work out.Oh, what size gear puller will that take? And will I have to put that hub back together? I was trying not to take it apart and have to rebuild it. At this point, I just want it to go back together and go back correctly and stay that way a good long time.Thanks for the fast reply.

[Mopar1973Man]

At least on my truck the rotor slips off the hub. Pull the caliper and caliper frame then just slide the rotor off the studs.Because the hub and bearing are seperate from the rotor... Since I don't know what year I'm dealing with I really can't be for sure...

[RJC2]

I have seen parts in a junkyard from trucks from the 50s that looked better than those. What is up with the rust with our trucks? Do they use some kind of bargain basement chinese steel on these parts. The F350 I worked on last year still looked very nice in these areas. Some rust, but not like these pictures.I hate it for you Jamman. Maybe the "Great Potato" in the clouds [Mike] will have some words of inspiration.ON EDIT: He beat me to it....

[jamman]

Ok, I pulled the caliper. I used the 3/8" allen to back that out. Am I needing to pull the frame the caliper sits on, slides on? I thought it was part of the knuckle setup. I don't know how to get that rotor off the hub. I tried, but I'm just not seeing it. Is it too simple that I'm not seeing it?

[hex0rz]

Ok, I pulled the caliper. I used the 3/8" allen to back that out. Am I needing to pull the frame the caliper sits on, slides on? I thought it was part of the knuckle setup. I don't know how to get that rotor off the hub. I tried, but I'm just not seeing it. Is it too simple that I'm not seeing it?

Hey, your doing just fine. You did not screw anything up. My truck is set up exactly like yours. Although, where the heck are you? Your setup is so rusty! I would clean all that up with a wire wheel on a drill or grinder then hit it with some paint. I take it your trying to put new pads on and put new rotors on... You already have the assembly out. This is normal for the axle to follow with the hub assembly. Because you were not aware of it coming out, you MAY have to replace your seals. Depending on whether or not they have been changed recently and/or the rubber on the seal has been compromised. You need to take a look down the axle tube and look at the seal and see if you have any dirt/debris on the seal. If you put the axle back in with the seal dirty, you will compromise the seal. As for getting the axle seperated from the hub assembly, you need to take off the grease cap on the front, and remove the cotter pin and axle nut. Then you need to somehow mechanically seperate the axle from the hub assembly. Reason I say this is because if you have never had it serviced nor have ever had ANTI-SEIZE applied, the two are going to be rusted and seized together. What I have done is put the hub assembly back on to the spindle. But the bolts in to secure it. But only have the bolts loose a little. Hit the end of the axle spindle to free it from the hub. IF you are replacing the rotor, hit the rotor with a sledge hammer. ANYTHING that you are not replacing, treat as if it were GOLD. You do not want to hit parts that your are not willing to replace or damage. IF you cannot free the assembly, you are gonna need to take it to a shop and have them put it on an arbor press. When you go to re-install all the new stuff, APPLY ANTI-SIEZE! Lemme know if you need help...

[dripley]

I believe ther are 2 bolts on the back side to remove the braket for the calipers. I dont see it still mounted in your pictures though.I have to agree with RJC on 2 things. Man it is rusty under there. Might as well clean it up while you are in there. I have some surface rust on mine, but not that bad. The second thing is words of wisdom from "THE GREAT POTATO IN THE SKY". I like that.:lmao:Jamman dont get discouraged. You happen to be working on a fairly simple but heavy duty area.it is all bolt off and bolt on stuff. Rust and parts stiking together like they are welded is common and just make the job a real pita. I dont know how long I spent doing my first one. but it made the second one much easier. Invest in some anti sieze compound for reassembly in case you have to go in there again. As far as a gear puller get as big of one as you can afford or the auto parts store will loan you. Plenty of pentrating oil to spray the parts with will help to.

[jamman]

hex,

Ok, thanks for the encouragement. I am replacing the rotors...ate up the passenger side. Decided to change out the calipers while I had it down(less than $30 each, I believe in good brakes!).

This truck lived the earlier part of it's life in the MN/WI area if I remember correctly. Yep, it has some baaaaad rust. Sadly, you saw this after I beat off a LOT of the junk. I got a flap wheel to sand the important stuff. Need to get a wire wheel. Wanted to go ahead and paint this stuff up while I had it disassembled. Any recommendations on the paint? Btw, I bought the large container of anti-sieze. I don't want this headache again.

The Castle nut and cotter pin are loose. NO problem there. I tried beating that rotor off when I had it on the wheel and the four bolts that come in from the back side where there.

So, let me see if I am following your suggestion. Take the rotor/hub/spindle with part of axle shaft hanging off and re-mount that in the bracket(Knuckle). Maybe put it so the axle shaft is to the side? Then maybe take a block of wood, hold in front of the hub/axle end and whack it with the sledge to start to break the rust seizure? Or am I misunderstanding? I added the block of wood as I am paranoid about hitting the end of that hub where the castle nut is.

Thank you, thank you and thank you to all for the help.

--- Update to the previous post...

Yep, I unbolted the caliper. There were two bolts there that looked like they had anti-seize compound on them, but they were the ones that took the allen head bolts. It got my hopes up that someone had taken this thing apart before and coated other critical items with anti-seize. Oh well.

On the gear-puller, I'll go get one. I just want to have an idea are we talking a 4", 6", 36" what? I never had to use them before. Is something like this sufficient? http://www.harborfreight.com/automotive-motorcycle/pullers/8-inch-three-jaw-puller-40970.html And if so, why don't we try that from the get-go?

Does anyone have an exploded diagram of this assembly? I haven't seen one that made a lot of sense. I feel like if I could see a good detailed diagram I'd know what I was dealing with and how to attack it. As it is, I'm treading lightly in areas I should be using my maul on, in my opinion.

I'm really trying to not have that hub come apart and I have to tear into it and start rebuilding it.

Thanks again!

[dripley]

Pretty sure that is the size i used on mine and they come it handy for other things as well. Got mine from nothern tool. I dont like beating on the end of anything that has threads on it because i usually hit it wrong and booger up the threads. If your are lucky it will push it out, but soak it down with pentrating oil and get some heat on it. Aplumbers torch will work but accetalene is better. I did not have access to accetalene though and had to use the plumbers torch. A Haynes Manual or similar has pretty good details. pdftown.com(think I got that right) might have a FSM to download for your year model, there might even be one here to down load, not sure.Like herox said you can do alot of pounding, just dont pound parts you want to keep. I dont think I would want to hit the front axle and drive it back into the diff. Not sure what you could hurt, I am just a little leary off it.

[jamman]

Ok, I'll soak it with PB Blaster or whatever that is called that I have. I don't have a torch. I'll get the puller. I have the Haynes Manual and I have the 2001 or 2 FSM downloaded. But that part of the assembly just doesn't seem clear to me. Maybe once I have it apart it will clear up.

[dripley]

The one thing I am seeing differant from my 02 and yours is the brake rotor. Mine is separate and just comes off of the hub bearing assembly. If yours is like mine that should have just slipped off.

[jamman]

Well, it ain't just slipping off anything thus far!Maybe I need more pictures of it to help show the details. I just don't know how the hub and it are put together and where to exert the pressure to break it apart. It is actually hard to see that it's a separate part.It sure seems to me that someone has got to have a '99 they have torn into that is identical to this. We'll see what it looks like tomorrow as I attack it.I'll look at the new rotors closer tomorrow and they should give me more of a clue how this thing is put together.

[hex0rz]

I dunno if a gear puller or jaw tool is applicable here... I know I did atleast not have to use one.If you do paint it, I would go with Rustoleum. They have all sorts of diff. applications. Its been a while since I have had to use them. So take a gander and see what product they offer that will match you best. They have some acid etch rust preventative paint as well. May help you, as the acid etch reacts with the rust and turns to zinc, I believe...If you already have the cotter pin and axle nut off, the only thing thats holding it together is the corrosion. Penetrating oil may do SOME good, but I do not feel its going to be nearly enough to do the job. Its a beast to free up. Reading here, in my Chiltons manual, it says WORD FOR WORD:Step 6. Back the hub/bearing mounting bolts off 1/4 in. each.Step 7. Tap the bolts with a hammer to loosen the hub/bearing from the steering knuckle.Step 8. Remove the hub/bearing mounting bolts and then the hub/bearing.ALTHOUGH, this may not be good enough for you as yours seems so corroded.Dripley, its HEX0RZ! Also, its Acetylene! :thumbup2:When I removed the hub assembly, I had to remove the lug studs to seperate the hubs and rotor. You are gonna have to remove the lug studs to seperate the rotor from the hub bearing. This is not necessary to remove the axle from the assembly.Because you already have the whole thing out, I would put the end of the axle shaft on a piece of wood and take a sledge to the rotor. Have someone balance the axle on the wood and you give 'er hell with the BFH! Your gonna have to make the piece of wood small enough to fit inside the area where the axle end is as it is recessed in the hole. Put it on a soft area like grass or something. If anything moves when you do it, you won't risk damaging anything else. Its gonna take a little more force if its on soft ground though.Once its all freed up, take emery cloth to all the contact areas to smooth things back out and then hit it with anti-seize.

[jamman]

I didn't take them off. I was following the instructions and loosened them but didn't take it off. I thought I had to leave that there to keep the guts all in place.Am I supposed to take the axle castle nut and washer off and then try to release this?

[hex0rz]

Yes, the axle nut, cotter pin, washer need to come off the axle shaft in order to remove the axle from the assembly. Check out this link: http://www.dodgeownerforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=12081.0

[dripley]

I guess I will politely back out of this one. In the first post you stated that the castle nuts came off quite easily i did not see the part you stated about not taking them off completely. On the 02 when the castle nut is removed the rotor just slips off, no need to mess with then studs. After I removed the rotor the puller came in very handy. There was no tapping the bolts holding the nub assembly on mine, It took a puller and a 5# hammer to get mine out. So I will respectfully defer to some one who owns a 99 and can spell.:tease:Good luck with the repair and let us know how it goes.

[jamman]

No, don't do that due to my stupidity!

I read about those nuts and took the pins out and used the wrench and loosened them up. Then, I guess I may have confused the instruction getting all loose with the 4 bolts on back or something. I thought you were suppose to leave that on to hold the hub together. Here, take a look at this explanation I had found that I was trying to follow:

Removing Brake Rotor

---

Many times the rotor will come right off by hitting on it with a soft hammer from behind while rotating it.

If it doesn't...

Break the big nut lose with the tires on the ground but leave it tight. Jack the side you are working on high to keep differential fluid from running out. Remove wheel and brake caliper. Caliper takes a 3/8" allan head.

Remove three of the four bolts that hold the unit bearing on from the back side, they take a 12 point socket. Leave the last bolt most of the way screwed out, wedge a socket with extension in-between the bolt and differential housing, start the engine and turn the steering wheel to pop the bearing off. You will hear it very clearly when it pops. Leaving the big nut tight prevents the bearing form busting apart.

During this process keep the axle in it's normal position by stuffing rags under the u-joint. This keeps the axle seal from deforming and possibly leaking.

When you have the rotor off pound the studs out with a copper or brass headed hammer or press.

Pound the studs into the new rotor using a drift then make sure they are pulled in tight by tightening down a lug nut with a pile of washers under it.

Coat the axle stub with anti-seize before putting the bearing/rotor back on so it comes off easy next time.

So, maybe it makes some sense why I had that nut on there. I've been afraid of that hub assembly becoming dis-assembled. I think it makes more sense to have that off now, but I try to follow directions as best I can when I'm in unfamiliar waters.

I should have thought about going to youtube sooner to get guys videos of these repairs they had done!

One more question...since I pulled out this axle, if I look in there and the seals are a little iffy, how do I pull them out to replace them? Wire to reach in there? I'll grab the flashlight and take a look tomorrow.

I REALLY appreciate all the help on this.

[dripley]

Jamman, this has nothing to do with anyones intellegence. Mine especially. The first one i did I was dumb as rock. The second one at least I knew what I was up against. I just missed the part where you left the nut on, but seeing the instructions you have, I would have probably done the same thing. Your seal is probably ok, I was a little rough on mine and it still does not leak a year later. Just be careful of dirt on the seal. It just appears to me the 99 has some differances from the 02 I am not aware of, but they share some similarities also. The only thing the instuctions you have leave out is the part about rust and things seemingly welded together and they just dont pop apart. The rust I see in the pictures might compicate things more along those lines.hex0rz has a 99 and I would think be more familiar with the disassembly. I will keep watching the thread and offer any assistance I can. Like i said earlier you are in a straight forward bolt off bolt on part of the truck. The rust and age just make it a pita to get apart.As far as the seal go, I think they have to be replaced from the inside of the diff. I dont know for sure never replaced mine.

[hex0rz]

Jamman, this has nothing to do with anyones intellegence. Mine especially. The first one i did I was dumb as rock. The second one at least I knew what I was up against. I just missed the part where you left the nut on, but seeing the instructions you have, I would have probably done the same thing. Your seal is probably ok, I was a little rough on mine and it still does not leak a year later. Just be careful of dirt on the seal. It just appears to me the 99 has some differances from the 02 I am not aware of, but they share some similarities also. The only thing the instuctions you have leave out is the part about rust and things seemingly welded together and they just dont pop apart. The rust I see in the pictures might compicate things more along those lines.

hex0rz has a 99 and I would think be more familiar with the disassembly. I will keep watching the thread and offer any assistance I can. Like i said earlier you are in a straight forward bolt off bolt on part of the truck. The rust and age just make it a pita to get apart.

As far as the seal go, I think they have to be replaced from the inside of the diff. I dont know for sure never replaced mine.

Dripley, I hope I did not give you the impression I was wanting to push you out of the thread. That was not my intention at all.

On another note, my methods to doing this are NOT the only way to approach it. There are tons of ways to go about doing this same repair. I only did what I found worked. I'm only sharing that information about what worked, because I experienced it.

I will post up some visual aids, etc. so I can help give you a bigger picture of your repair.

As far as the diff seals go, when you put this all back together and you start having diff fluid leaking from the tubes, then you will need to replace them. But you will have to give it some time first before you consider them for replacement. As some of the fluid can be pooled in the tubes for a while giving you the impression the need replacing. If it turns out you need to replace them, I can help you then... For now, just stick to seeing if you have dirt and debris on them. Inserting the axles back in very gently...

--- Update to the previous post...

Here is a little advice I gave a guy about the front diff. seals:

http://forum.mopar1973man.com/threads/5387-Front-hub-replacement-axle-housing-seal?p=49571#post49571

Here is a couple videos of what dis-assembly of the front hubs and rotors are like. Most of it will apply to you. Some of it is a little different...

***Remember! DO NOT put anti-seize on the lug studs! ALSO, put loctite on the brake caliper bolts. Make sure to TORQUE ALL BOLTS to spec!***

I can give you torque numbers if needed...