Auto trans build upcoming... Opinions & experience wanted

[CSM]

The new truck I bought (2002 in sig) turns out to have a bit different trans than the seller advertised... I still would have bought the truck, but I need to make some changes. The trans was the only non stock part I couldn't verify before the quick sale the guy needed.The trans was supposed to be a BD torque converter, billet input, street/towing valve body, and sun coast guts. I did some hunting and found the shop that did the trans. The builder was a good guy and honest with me. He also let me know that his 3 year 36k mi warranty also applied to me, since he knows the truck. What I got was a hardened cryo treated input shaft, CVC stock replacement converter, good set of clutches/bands, and a mild hand modified valve body. I discussed the options with him in making the trans a bit more sturdy so I don't burn out anything prematurely. He offered a CVC single clutch billet converter that CVC rated at 1200 ft/lbs and a moderately worked street / strip valvebody for $600, and since he did the trans, he said he would keep the stock CVC converter for a $120 core, totaling $480. I am seeing a peak of 48 or so psi of boost when I roll on the throttle, and I want something that I could still tow some with, but something that will still run through the gears fairly well without burning out at either. I am thinking of taking him up on the deal, as the hardened input should be good for what I need and if the rest of the internals are okay I should be in good shape to drive and occasionally tow.As I've mentioned... I know little about automatics. What do you guys think?

[JOHNFAK]

The new truck I bought (2002 in sig) turns out to have a bit different trans than the seller advertised... I still would have bought the truck, but I need to make some changes. The trans was the only non stock part I couldn't verify before the quick sale the guy needed. The trans was supposed to be a BD torque converter, billet input, street/towing valve body, and sun coast guts. I did some hunting and found the shop that did the trans. The builder was a good guy and honest with me. He also let me know that his 3 year 36k mi warranty also applied to me, since he knows the truck. What I got was a hardened cryo treated input shaft, CVC stock replacement converter, good set of clutches/bands, and a mild hand modified valve body. I discussed the options with him in making the trans a bit more sturdy so I don't burn out anything prematurely. He offered a CVC single clutch billet converter that CVC rated at 1200 ft/lbs and a moderately worked street / strip valvebody for $600, and since he did the trans, he said he would keep the stock CVC converter for a $120 core, totaling $480. I am seeing a peak of 48 or so psi of boost when I roll on the throttle, and I want something that I could still tow some with, but something that will still run through the gears fairly well without burning out at either. I am thinking of taking him up on the deal, as the hardened input should be good for what I need and if the rest of the internals are okay I should be in good shape to drive and occasionally tow. As I've mentioned... I know little about automatics. What do you guys think?

Well that sucks ...... but still a nice truck. Honestly - if it was mine .... Find out the cyro shaft maker - probably precision industry - it will probably hold but maybe better to sell and get a 1 piece sonnax or IE. Sell the cryro and recoupe some funds. Go with a well known tripple disk like GOERAND with lifetime warranty. Install a SFI flexplate from ebay. That way you have a fully built auto and never have to worry. Its too nice a truck. $700 for shaft $1300 for Goerand 3x TC $100 flexplate $2100 Sell the cryro and the stock TC for $500 $1600 out of pocket - but its done. But if you absolutely cant swing it - what he says seems like a good deal also. It would make me nervous on those bigger injectors you have though - exact boat I am in now.

[pepsi71ocean]

The new truck I bought (2002 in sig) turns out to have a bit different trans than the seller advertised... I still would have bought the truck, but I need to make some changes. The trans was the only non stock part I couldn't verify before the quick sale the guy needed. The trans was supposed to be a BD torque converter, billet input, street/towing valve body, and sun coast guts. I did some hunting and found the shop that did the trans. The builder was a good guy and honest with me. He also let me know that his 3 year 36k mi warranty also applied to me, since he knows the truck. What I got was a hardened cryo treated input shaft, CVC stock replacement converter, good set of clutches/bands, and a mild hand modified valve body. I discussed the options with him in making the trans a bit more sturdy so I don't burn out anything prematurely. He offered a CVC single clutch billet converter that CVC rated at 1200 ft/lbs and a moderately worked street / strip valvebody for $600, and since he did the trans, he said he would keep the stock CVC converter for a $120 core, totaling $480. I am seeing a peak of 48 or so psi of boost when I roll on the throttle, and I want something that I could still tow some with, but something that will still run through the gears fairly well without burning out at either. I am thinking of taking him up on the deal, as the hardened input should be good for what I need and if the rest of the internals are okay I should be in good shape to drive and occasionally tow. As I've mentioned... I know little about automatics. What do you guys think?

You seem like you have a bubba build for a transmission. While some can last some may not. I wouldn't go with a single disk at all, a triple is the minimum, and get a billet flexplate. That and a Billet input shaft. I don't know much about CVC, but anything built by the big 3 will be more then suffice. What you have engine HP wise will be more then that trans will ahndle under a load if you were towing.

Well that sucks ...... but still a nice truck. Honestly - if it was mine .... Find out the cyro shaft maker - probably precision industry - it will probably hold but maybe better to sell and get a 1 piece sonnax or IE. Sell the cryro and recoupe some funds. Go with a well known tripple disk like GOERAND with lifetime warranty. Install a SFI flexplate from ebay. That way you have a fully built auto and never have to worry. Its too nice a truck. $700 for shaft $1300 for Goerand 3x TC $100 flexplate $2100 Sell the cryro and the stock TC for $500 $1600 out of pocket - but its done. But if you absolutely cant swing it - what he says seems like a good deal also. It would make me nervous on those bigger injectors you have though - exact boat I am in now.

Can you explainwhy your DTT built tranny isn't good enought, i know it was not a built trans but can you explain?

[JOHNFAK]

Can you explainwhy your DTT built tranny isn't good enought, i know it was not a built trans but can you explain?

Stock flexplate Stock input shaft 400 Hp possibly wanting 500 thats the problem - 3x disk lockups at over 400HP are getting close to where you need to be concerned. Nothing wrong with the transmission core - its perfectly fine and is built pretty much the same as any high HP truck. You dont need a "billet" flexplate The SFI flexplates on ebay are in trucks that hold over 900HP. Many many passes. $110. Save yourself $350.

[pepsi71ocean]

Stock flexplate Stock input shaft 400 Hp possibly wanting 500 thats the problem - 3x disk lockups at over 400HP are getting close to where you need to be concerned. Nothing wrong with the transmission core - its perfectly fine and is built pretty much the same as any high HP truck. You dont need a "billet" flexplate The SFI flexplates on ebay are in trucks that hold over 900HP. Many many passes. $110. Save yourself $350.

Flexplates are something that either breaks or doesn't. But with where you are i would be more concerned that even a SFI plate will not stand up to the test over time. I would think you should ask yourself if its worth saving a little money and risk trashing your trans over a few hundred. Atyleast that is what i was told, Flexplates could last to 500 Hp and some may not. BUT, if yours doesn't last then you trashed your Pump, and TC and possiably front clutch pack. Im just saying if he has it out, there is no harm in doing it.

[JOHNFAK]

Atyleast that is what i was told.

I guess thats it right.

Youve never been way over 400 hp and never have I.

I've read the same threads by DTT etc saying that its hit and miss. Hes basically talking about a stock plate (the SFI plates are thicker, tested and approved by SFI).

Ive also been in contact via pm by the two guys who run the SFI plates off ebay and each run VERY high HP numbers - some of the biggest on CF.

So what are you going to believe.

In the end I go with whats been tested in a truck that is built higher than me. If two guys can run 100's of pulls on an SFI plate at close to 700-900 HP - what makes you think I need to spend another $350 on a billet flexplate at almost 1/2 the HP and torque ???

Ill try and relink the thread here sometime. You can PM them yourself.

--- Update to the previous post...

Here you go

Hes got over 800HP fuel only

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3rd-gen-performance-parts-discussion/491758-called-goerend-garmon-today-what-do-8.html#post5071352

Cant find the original post - but this guy and the other both have extrem HP trucks , both with SFI flexplate - and both with combined 100's of passes and his only comment was about the ONLY thing that didnt break was the SFI flexplate. All the DTT/Goerand stuff did (due to his numbers)

800-900Hp - real world testing - good enough for me

[CSM]

So what stall should i expect with a Goerend triple disk? I currently am about 2700. I would like to be at about 2000... but that may be asking a lot from this 47RE. I honestly think that the single clutch will "hold" the engine that I have, as I find it VERY unlikely that I am putting out more than 1200 ft-lb of torque, but I think that the Goerend unit will last much longer with proper fluid changes due to the increased surface area of the clutches. What valve bodies are you guys running? I definitely need line pressure to be upped, but I am somewhat trusting the tranny guy to build it right on that end, since there is no real quantitative way to compare one to the other. I don't doubt the Goerend holding, I would like to do a . And to be honest I am not sure about the cryo input shaft... I am thinking on that one. The sfi flex plate is a winner for me and I will likely go that route. I don't plan on any other performance mods other than ARP head studs... and possibly a cam/valve springs later on if I get around to it.Another interesting note: the trans guy Shop Stop in Longmont, CO, recommended tighening the bands to 27 in-lbs and backing off two full turns. This is slightly tighter than the factory spec, but makes some sense to me, as long as the bands don't rub. What do you guys set your bands at?

[JOHNFAK]

So what stall should i expect with a Goerend triple disk? I currently am about 2700. I would like to be at about 2000... but that may be asking a lot from this 47RE. I honestly think that the single clutch will "hold" the engine that I have, as I find it VERY unlikely that I am putting out more than 1200 ft-lb of torque, but I think that the Goerend unit will last much longer with proper fluid changes due to the increased surface area of the clutches. What valve bodies are you guys running? I definitely need line pressure to be upped, but I am somewhat trusting the tranny guy to build it right on that end, since there is no real quantitative way to compare one to the other. I don't doubt the Goerend holding, I would like to do a . And to be honest I am not sure about the cryo input shaft... I am thinking on that one. The sfi flex plate is a winner for me and I will likely go that route. I don't plan on any other performance mods other than ARP head studs... and possibly a cam/valve springs later on if I get around to it. Another interesting note: the trans guy Shop Stop in Longmont, CO, recommended tighening the bands to 27 in-lbs and backing off two full turns. This is slightly tighter than the factory spec, but makes some sense to me, as long as the bands don't rub. What do you guys set your bands at?

Honestly most of these ^^ questions noone that hasnt been into the internals can really answer well. Each vendor uses same parts mostly and just custom design depending on their approach. Different springs and tolerances and drilled out plates. What I mean is the line pressure in my REvmax is probably same as a DTT build. But the way it does the lockup engagement is "softer" than DTT as they dont bore out some of the holes the same size. Stall - make sure you get this one right. I am pretty sure thats what Im fighting now with my truck being slightly laggy until lockup. Problem is I have no reference point having not driven in another vendors 3x setup ..... so I will be taking mine to a performance diesel shop to see if a different stator design or stall will help. As for single - a good forum friend of mine runs a single disk suncoast on CF at over 500hp. So yes they do hold and work and less harsh on lockup ......... so it can be done this way too ......so I do believe your builder I just don't know anything about CVC. Bands - never done them - when my tranny came out the DTT builder tightened it by hand with the tranny flipped over - he mentioned something about its more accurate that way - but hes a builder with over 10years experience. I think it equates to basically the same pressure as tightening and backing off ....... but he obviously tested this himself over the years so he knew how. Id speak with your builder and speak with goerand (expecially on torque convertor). THen just decide if your going a mild build (same tranny just single TC). Or almost full build with 3x disk and billet input / band/ apply etc)

[CSM]

Thanks. I need to call Goerend, the trans shop, BD and CVC and pick their brains.

The thing is for me, is that torque causes slippage and broken parts, not horsepower. The only part that actually sees a direct affect from the horsepower is the converter stators and the ATF. Horsepower moves you down the road and is the measure of what you feel pushing you into the seat and your E.T. times/sled distances/etc. HP=TorqueXRPM/5252

I did a rough curve fit shown in the figure below (dug out some engginerin knowlege) of a stock dyno chart and scaled it to fit a conservative hp number for my truck based off 10hp/psi boost minus some other factors to estimate peak torque. I come up with about 835 lb-ft peak... well over the stock converter I have but less than the 1200 lb foot that the CVC is rated to. Especially since I have a torque converter lockup switch and I will only be engaging the clutch at high temps, cruise, down hills, and after 2nd gear.

Heres my plan... SFI flex plate, unknown input shaft as of yet, Shop Stop valve body, and I will pick the torque converter with the lowest stall that I can find. If the CVC stalls at a comparable number to the Goerend, I will likely go that route.

For the input shaft, the builder says that he has gone to the hardened shaft on quite a few drag trucks that race competitively at Bandimere and he said he has seen only one failure. Much like your SFI plate, if the trucks are built up and they work at the races, thats probably good enough for me. I just need to verify the sort of engines and launches the trucks have in them. If they are in the 500-600 hp range and race a lot, I will give it a shot. I don't drive like an idiot very often, and tow like a little old lady.

I need Wild N Free to come do a drive by of this thread since he has done a fair amount of automatic work with his old truck if i recall correctly.

[Baconbitsforu]

Stock flexplate Stock input shaft 400 Hp possibly wanting 500 thats the problem - 3x disk lockups at over 400HP are getting close to where you need to be concerned. Nothing wrong with the transmission core - its perfectly fine and is built pretty much the same as any high HP truck. You dont need a "billet" flexplate The SFI flexplates on ebay are in trucks that hold over 900HP. Many many passes. $110. Save yourself $350.

You have a link for this flexplate? I need one soon when I go in to redo my TC VB and Bands.

[JOHNFAK]

You have a link for this flexplate? I need one soon when I go in to redo my TC VB and Bands.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DODGE-TRUCK-CUMMINS-5-9L-TURBO-DIESEL-SFI-FLEX-PLATE-WITH-ARP-BOLT-KIT-/160785077830?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item256f899646&vxp=mtr

[Baconbitsforu]

Thanks! Sure beats the 359 I was about to pay for a bullitt one. Im only going to 400 hp on this 2gen so Ill take my saved money and get a fass.

--- Update to the previous post...

I did notice it said in large red letters "with OUT weight" Does it need one? Or is this a plus

[JOHNFAK]

For the input shaft, the builder says that he has gone to the hardened shaft on quite a few drag trucks that race competitively at Bandimere and he said he has seen only one failure.

Id love some details here - any brands ?? Im guessing its this one. http://www.puredieselpower.com/catalog/8907-51861847rh47re-300m-cryo-treated-billet-input-shaft-p-33443.html

[CSM]

Id love some details here - any brands ?? Im guessing its this one. http://www.puredieselpower.com/catalog/8907-51861847rh47re-300m-cryo-treated-billet-input-shaft-p-33443.html

I will let you know when I find out.

[cajflynn]

I have a goerend tc at 2000 or 2200. If you want to spool faster keep the number higher. As for the VB, you can take care of that yourself. Don't waste money on a built one. Find Tim Holt in Arlington, TX. He is THE 47re guru. You can search his advice on the net.

[CSM]

I have a goerend tc at 2000 or 2200. If you want to spool faster keep the number higher. As for the VB, you can take care of that yourself. Don't waste money on a built one. Find Tim Holt in Arlington, TX. He is THE 47re guru. You can search his advice on the net.

Are there any specific things you recommend reading of his? I did the best I can, but that Dodge Ram forum he uses is one of the worst layouts ever... Hard to navigate.

[cajflynn]

I put this setup in my truck. It is super smooth. There were no holes drilled in my VB. http://www.dieselram.com/archive/index.php?t-173842.html I would call that dude if I was you. He can set you in the right direction.