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edcasey

Unexpected results from new VP44

28 posts in this topic

About a month ago my truck suddenly died. After two weeks of denial, I came to the conclusion that my VP44 had died. I got one from jkidd (great deal too) and installed it. After installing the new VP44, I can't believe how much quieter it is now. It still sounds like a VP44 truck just not nearly as loud. My wife and a couple of my neighbors commented on how much quieter it is now. The other thing is fuel mileage. Today I did a lot of town/city driving (84 miles with an average speed of 26 mph) and the ScanGauge showed 17.9 mpg. Previously, the best I could have hoped for this time of the year would have been mid 15's with this kind of stop and start driving and 2000 pounds of tools and equipment in the back. My first full tank of fuel with the new VP got 20.1 mpg with a mix of highway and off-highway driving. My previous best was 19.9 and that was during the summer, all highway miles and no weight in the back.

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I'm definitely happy with it. It was my first swap and it wasn't difficult at all. I figure if the fuel mileage increase stays the way it is I'll save between $250.00 and $300.00 in fuel costs in a year.

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is that VP44 on a 2 stroke diet?

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Wally World's finest!

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Wally world is the usual...

But don't get worried about trying something different... most all 2 cycle oil is ASHLESS and works very well... Most name brand are good products it just the no-name stuff I tend to steer clear off being there is little information on it.

Tried...

[*]PennzOil (Which happens to be WalMart Supper Tech - Universial)

[*]Quaker State

[*]Yama-Lube (Semi-Synthetic)

[*]Sthl (Chainsaw 2 cycle oil)

[*]Phillips 66 Injex (Snowmobile)

[*]Castrol (Snowmobile)

And a few more I can't remember right now..

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Ya...I've been using 2 stroke oil for about two years thanks to your research. Unfortunately, my last VP died of electrical failure. I'll bet mechanically it was in pretty good shape for a 5 year old pump.

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I have my bypass shimmed to 15.5 psi. It drops to 13.5 psi at WOT but I rarely floor it. I installed a Walbro 4 years ago based on the recommendation of several RV delivery drivers. It was long before I joined CF and had never heard of Airdog or Fass. My original pump has just over 87,000 miles so it's on borrowed time. When I installed the new VP I also re-did my fuel system adding a W/S and 2 Mic filter. I also plumbed in a second Walbro (I always carried an extra) that's wired separately so if the first one dies I can switch to the other without leaving the cab. I actually haven't finished because the switches I ordered haven't arrived yet.

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i am curious how you plumbed that up. i have a 100 gallon transfer tank in the bed. it would would be cool if i could use my stock lift pump(still bolted to the motor) on a toggle switch. please give me details.

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After my new VP, my mileage increased and the amount of smoke I was rolling greatly decreased... The old pump was a hot-rodded unit probably pushing more fuel, but I'm happy stock...My fuel mileage got so good, I didn't even see the pole I back into!!!! ahahahaha Still working on what to do with my dent.

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i am curious how you plumbed that up. i have a 100 gallon transfer tank in the bed. it would would be cool if i could use my stock lift pump(still bolted to the motor) on a toggle switch. please give me details.

I'm not sure if my setup would help you too much but I'm happy to show it to you. I used two Wix filter bases. These bases each have two inputs and two outputs.

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I plumbed the Walbros to the bases. The first filter base has a 20 micron fuel/water separator installed that removes water and acts as a prefilter for the pumps. It's a filter that is made to be used on the suction side of the pump so it doesn't have a lot of restriction. The second filter is a 2 micron (actual) filter.

The reason I was able to make this work is the Walbros have a built in check valve so if you don't put power to them no fuel will flow. So I don't need any shut-off valves or external check valves. This is a diagram I made when I was putting the whole thing together. I suck at graphics programs so it's not very good. This is a view looking straight down on the truck.

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Here's a few pics of what it looks like but it's hard to get a good picture where it's mounted.

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I removed the stock filter canister because it had a very slight leak. I thought I would have to re-shim the bypass to maintain the 15.5 psi because I now have a 20 micron and 2 micron filter where before it was just a 10 micron. The funny thing is with this new setup my pressure actually rose to 16 psi. I guess the stock filter canister is more restrictive than I estimated.

Ed

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Nice job on the install. I like the detailed drawing & appreciate the time it took you to put this on Michael's site.Happy Holidays everyone,Dave

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EdCasey... Great looking fuel system... But I got a few questions...

[*]What you fuel pressure like?

[*]How much did the walbro's cost you?

[*]How good is the life span of a Walbro pump?

Thanks for the questions Mopar1973Man. Fuel pressure is at 16psi at idle and 14 at WOT but I'm not a WOT type of driver. It actually went up .5psi when I changed to the new filter setup. I only run one pump at a time. The second pump is there for redundancy. I could run both at the same time if my truck was hot rodded but one is more than enough for the mods I have.

I bought two of them from a local parts store that I've been doing business with for years. That was 4 years ago and they cost me $89.00 a piece. He would sell them to me now for $97.00. They sell them on Ebay for $115.00 to $119.00 shipped.

I can't tell you for sure what the life span is because I haven't had one fail. The one I have been running for 4 years has just over 87,000 miles. I went with Walbro because I worked as an RV dealership service manager and many of the new camper delivery driver's were using them in their trucks (95% of which are Dodge CTD's). That was long before I heard of CF or other fuel systems. I've seen many posts where other Walbro 392's have failed fairly quickly but I think the big problem they had was most never ran a pre-filter. I think relatively large debris in unfiltered fuel will damage a 392. I could be total wrong on that but it would explain why mine has lasted so long compared to some others. With my old system, I ran a NAPA 140 micron in-line screen that I had to change twice because they became clogged enough to drop fuel pressure. I now run a 20 micron fuel / water separator as a pre-filter.

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I think that is the trick to it to pre-filter the fuel before the pump to protect the pump from damage. Another good reason way FASS and AirDog fuel pump work so good is because of the prefilter setup...

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Great looking setup Ed. What type of relief valve / bypass valve are you using for regulating pressure? I am looking into building a setup similar to this with dual pumps, one dedicated to an auxiliary tank. Have you ever had a pump apart? I'm curious what type of pump it is. Are the pumps wired through a relay, or direct to the stock harness?Thanks,Anton

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Great looking setup Ed. What type of relief valve / bypass valve are you using for regulating pressure? I am looking into building a setup similar to this with dual pumps, one dedicated to an auxiliary tank. Have you ever had a pump apart? I'm curious what type of pump it is. Are the pumps wired through a relay, or direct to the stock harness? Thanks, Anton

Hey Anton, The bypass valve is the same as this one http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Hilborn-Primary-By-Pass-Valve-Brass,317.html except I got mine from Glacier Diesel. It's the same bypass valve they use in their Fuel Boss setup. They also sell the return manifold http://www.glacierdieselpower.com/product.aspx?pf_id=38112RM that is installed in the fuel fill hose to return the unused fuel to the fuel tank. The bypass is adjustable by removing or adding small shims. It only takes a couple of minutes to change them. Once you have the pressure where you want it, you wont have to touch the bypass again. The Walbro 392's are gerotor pumps. If my older pump ever fails (almost 90,000 miles now), I'll open it and take pictures. The nice thing is these pumps wont allow any flow if their not being powered. So the pump that is off acts as a check valve when you run one pump at a time. I choose to wire my pumps to a relay so the pumps gets nearly full battery voltage. The 392's draw less amperage than the stock Carter so you could hook a single Walbro to the original ECM wire but there will be more voltage drop than using a relay.

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Thanks for the info Ed. These walbros sound like a great alternative. I used to use similar pumps in my days of off roading Suzuki 4x4s - we would get them off of full size ford vans and trucks, mounted on the frame rail. I suspect these walbros are very similar. As for the relay - I recall reading about a check engine light being displayed if a relay is used to run your fuel pump. Apparently the ECM detects low current draw and it is displayed as lift pump failure. Have you had this problem? If so how did you fix it? The bypass valve you're using looks like a perfect unit for these setups. Have you ever tried plumbing the bypass back to the low pressure (inlet) side of the pump(s)? While I agree it's better to have it returning to tank, I may try plumbing it directly back to the inlet side of the pumps so it's contained in one compact unit. This will be essentially the same as the internal bypass found in the Holley's. Plus, this will eliminate an additional line to the tank(s) making it easier to have an auxiliary tank. I'm currently planning out my auxiliary tank setup. Tank will be a toolbox/tank combo in the box of truck. Stock tank or aux will be selected via a 12v solenoid valve such as this one: http://www.princessauto.com/hydraulics/valves/accessoriesy/8051799-12-vdc-selector-valve. This will actually allow a single pump setup, however I like the added peace of mind of your redundant pump setup and would probably do the same. Water separator/pump/filter/bypass will be contained on a mounting plate, removable as a module to facilitate service. This is what I'm planning for my next fuel pump setup. The holley HP150 is disappointing me already. Holley used an o-ring seal on one side of the pump's port plate, and a cheap gasket on the other. The gasket, combined with the uneven 3 bolts that clamp it together, is already resulting in leaks!

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Nice set up, do you alternate them say weekly or monthly just to be sure they are always working?

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Thanks for the info Ed. These walbros sound like a great alternative. I used to use similar pumps in my days of off roading Suzuki 4x4s - we would get them off of full size ford vans and trucks, mounted on the frame rail. I suspect these walbros are very similar.

As for the relay - I recall reading about a check engine light being displayed if a relay is used to run your fuel pump. Apparently the ECM detects low current draw and it is displayed as lift pump failure. Have you had this problem? If so how did you fix it?

The bypass valve you're using looks like a perfect unit for these setups. Have you ever tried plumbing the bypass back to the low pressure (inlet) side of the pump(s)? While I agree it's better to have it returning to tank, I may try plumbing it directly back to the inlet side of the pumps so it's contained in one compact unit. This will be essentially the same as the internal bypass found in the Holley's. Plus, this will eliminate an additional line to the tank(s) making it easier to have an auxiliary tank.

I'm currently planning out my auxiliary tank setup. Tank will be a toolbox/tank combo in the box of truck. Stock tank or aux will be selected via a 12v solenoid valve such as this one: http://www.princessauto.com/hydraulics/valves/accessoriesy/8051799-12-vdc-selector-valve. This will actually allow a single pump setup, however I like the added peace of mind of your redundant pump setup and would probably do the same. Water separator/pump/filter/bypass will be contained on a mounting plate, removable as a module to facilitate service.

This is what I'm planning for my next fuel pump setup. The holley HP150 is disappointing me already. Holley used an o-ring seal on one side of the pump's port plate, and a cheap gasket on the other. The gasket, combined with the uneven 3 bolts that clamp it together, is already resulting in leaks!

I'm really disappointed to here about the HP150. When I saw your writeup on CF it looked like a good alternative and your workmanship was impressive. I even PM'd you about posting it here. I was told to replace my stock pump with a Walbro 4 years ago by several RV delivery drivers who came into my RV dealership. I knew nothing about Walbro but for under $200.00 I bought two of them keeping one in the truck as a backup. Several of the delivery drivers had over 100,000 miles on theirs and one of mine is approaching 90,000. I think a prefilter is a huge help for longevity along with using the correct type of regulator so the pump isn't fighting against it's own pressure. 392's will exceed 100 psi without a regulator.

As far as the relay causing a code, I haven't had a problem. The Fass and AirDog systems also use the original pump wire to trigger the relay and they don't throw a code either. It is a little confusing because some trucks will throw a P0230 when their pump is failing because the circuit is out of range. You wouldn't think a 160 mA draw would be enough to prevent the code but I have never got one. It would be interesting to find out what the parameters are for the ECM to throw a P0230. Maybe Mopar1973Man has some information about this.

When I first installed a Walbro, I installed a return manifold into the fuel fill because that's what everyone told me to do. When I redid my fuel system I did give some thought to re-plumbing the return to a tee before the suction side of the pump. Opie's mechanical pump is plumbed that way;

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But I decided just to use the return manifold because it was already in place.

I like your idea of a solenoid. That will make things easy to operate. I get quite a few questions asking why not run both pumps at once. A single 392 will pump 80 gph at 14.0 volts and 15 psi of pressure. That's way more fuel than my VP44 requires and my pressure never drops more than 2 psi. I use my truck to pick up wholesale campers all over the Northeast so having a second pump in place offers a lot of peace of mind and could potentially save a lot of money due to tow bills or lost time. A lifetime warranty pump is nice to have but having to wait to have one sent (even overnight) could cost hundreds of dollars. Buying a new $100.00 Walbro pump to replace a failed one is actually cheaper for me than waiting for a free replacement.

I also like your idea of mounting everything on one plate to make service easy. I've read that emulsified water is harder to remove so the water separator should be on the suction side of the pump like on Fass and AirDog systems. The nice thing with your setup is you'll be able to run better filters than both of those systems.

post-10025-138698163563_thumb.jpg

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Nice set up, do you alternate them say weekly or monthly just to be sure they are always working?

Thanks flman. I actually switch pumps daily. I've gotten in the habit of switching the toggle switch position before I put the ignition key in.

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This is a great thread! I to am somwhat disapointed to hear about the quality fo hte HP150 Holley pump. It looked like a nice alternative.

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Hey Ed you say your vp44 went out due to electrical, did it throw a code, did it die a lot during the day, surging, slight miss. My fuel mileage went from 14mpg to 18 mpg in a 10k welding truck, now the pump is going out I am back to 14mpg.

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