Click, click..

[Mopar1973Man]

Make sure your not getting slop in your shift linkage and your not hitting your safety switch when you put it in park to shut the truck off. Next time it happens, just wiggle your shifter a little or put it in neutral and try it again. I agree it most likely your starter but just throwing it out there since nobody else mentioned it.

i've never owned a auto car/truck....so there are lots of things i forget to mention.

I'm also the same way I don't own much for autos and don't really care for them. But diesel4life is right you might want to double check the neutral safety switches and verify its not any safety system locking it out by chance.

[diesel4life]

I'm also the same way I don't own much for autos and don't really care for them..

Hmm, half the vehicles you own are auto :tongue: The older auto's like the 47 are definitely inferior to a standard but having recently driven a 6. Speed auto with a good engine brake I'd be throwing rocks at a manual if I had my choice. They are an awesome transmission.

[Mopar1973Man]

Hmm, half the vehicles you own are auto :tongue: The older auto's like the 47 are definitely inferior to a standard but having recently driven a 6. Speed auto with a good engine brake I'd be throwing rocks at a manual if I had my choice. They are an awesome transmission.

Not to hijack... 2008 Honda Rancher ATV (Manual 5 Speed) 1983 Honda Goldwing (Manual 5 Speed) 2002 Dodge Ram 2500 (Manual 5 Speed) 1996 Dodge Ram 1500 (Auto 4 Speed) You said what?! I will admit the technology has come a long ways since the release of the 46RE and 47RE transmissions and the newer 6 speed have been getting good reviews by others so I'm not really throwing rocks at any of them just been a manual guy for so long I really don't like a PCM deciding when to shift for me.

[hex0rz]

WELL! Its been a cluster trying to get my kit from Larry B. Initially talked with him on the phone and gave him my information to get it. He got a digit wrong on the address and the post office would not deliver it next door. So I got the correction made the next day after it went out but thought I would try my luck to see if the post office would deliver it next door. Once I found out they would not had him send another kit.

Finally got the kit today! Good thing, too! When I got off from work yesterday the truck would take forever to get to crank and then it started sticking open. Took like 6 or 7 tries before I got the engine started without the starting sticking at the same time...

I got the brushes and brush plate with this kit, but he says to solder the brushes. I don't have a soldering gun, so I'm gonna try what they do in the install video included on his website. Take some wire and tie it then isolate it...

Updates to come!

- - - Updated - - -

OKAY! So today has been a cluster... I'm an unhppy camper, at this point.

I managed to get the starter out. Dang bolts are ON THERE. Its an OEM starter and has never been touched. I got the contacts and plunger replaced. The positive side contact was almost nothing. The other contact was virtually whole! Very little missing on that side... The positive stud had been partially melted, but still usable. When I went to remove the positive cable from the starter, turns out it was loose...

I had bought the brush and brush plate kit as well. Upon reading instructions, it said to solder the brushes to the field windings. I did not have a solder kit so I tried the othe alt. method larry b points to on a video on his site. They used wire and twisted the brushes to the existing brushes to join the new brushes to the starter.

So I gave that a shot. Far from getting it to look good or keeping it small... So I broke down and was able to get a ride to home depot by the nice neighbor next to me. Got a solder kit and gave that a shot. Emery clothed the windings and applied flux. Tried to get the brush pigtail hot enough to melt the solder onto it. No go. So I kept trying until I could get it tinned. Eventually got it tinned. So then I tried to apply it to the winding.

Try as I might until hell freezes over, they were NOT going to bond! I do not understand why??!?? :banghead:

So I torched the winding and brush to get it hot and then tried to apply it. Took hours trying to get it to go and it DID NOT happen! So I broke down and got the wire out again. I wired the new brush onto the winding as best as possible. Then torched it again and tried to apply solder. As far as I could tell, it was on there, it makes contact and its on there... ugh.

So I still had the other brush to do and I left that one on. I cut the first brush off after figuring I had to solder it. So I wired the brush to the old brush pigtail. Got the liquid tape out and put a good coat on it.

I put the end cap on the starter and I noticed the brush plate holes for the bolts were being interfered by the brushes that were mounted on the plate.

I got them to bend over enough for me to be able to get the thing put back together... Took some jumper cables and hooked it up to a battery and hooked the others up to the starter. Hit it and the starter worked fine. So I put it back in the truck.

Now, here is my predicament that I CANNOT seem to grasp... It cranks SLOOOOW! It also dims the lights down as it does so I know its pulling a high load for cranking. I'm at a loss here fellas as to WHY this starter is worse than before?

Does anyone remotely have an idea of what could be going on? Yea and I'm definitely going to be returning that stupid soldering gun!

I just hope I don't have to break down and resort to having to buy a new starter over something stupid!

- - - Updated - - -

Anybody got any ideas?

[stodg73]

BUMP!! http://forum.mopar1973man.com/threads/8208-Refer-to-my-click-click-thead?p=79032#post79032

[Mopar1973Man]

Soldering heavy gauge wires requires at least 100w or bigger soldering iron to do that if its a cheap 15-35w it will never provide enough heat to solder the leads. As for the slow cranking did you index the brushes correctly in the housing? If they are not index it will create its own issues. Also if the bushes are not making contact properly it will pulling double the amp on 2 brushes compared to half as much on 4 brushes. It only take 1 brush to fail to make 2 dead.

[hex0rz]

Eh, thats the catch! Its a 140/100 watt solder gun. I'm not sure what you mean about indexing into the housing?I'm pretty sure I put the brushes on as good as they will get. I'll probably have to pull it again and look. I'm also concerned that maybe one of them is grounding out to the starter itself? I dunno.. :ahhh:Seems like there should be a better way to do this than soldering it. I'm wondering if buying a new starter would have been more worth it...

[Mopar1973Man]

There is a single index pin (dent) in the case for the brush plate to index from. Should be a single square notch on the plate that index to that pin (dent) in the case.

[hex0rz]

There is a single index pin (dent) in the case for the brush plate to index from. Should be a single square notch on the plate that index to that pin (dent) in the case.

Can you elaborate on this further for me?

[Mopar1973Man]

That's about it. There brush plate sits down inside the starter motor housing there is a stamped dent in the side of the motor case that should look like a index pin for the plate to index to a single square notch. The only thing I can say is take it apart again and look at the plate I know there is a index notch for the plate to sit in.

[hex0rz]

Mike, thank you for your help. I was not able to get it fixed, although. So I bought a new starter from O'reilly's. It comes with a lifetime warranty, $211 later...So, I decided to crack open the new starter and use the Larry B kit and make something out of the starter. I will have you know, these starters come with an oversize contact already in it! I took out the other side and put an oversize contact in that side. Plungers are identical.So, now I have an OEM starter sitting here that will essentially be a rebuild. Atleast good for another 100k miles. So, I think now that I do not have to worry about my truck starting, I can take my time fixing this one and making it right. Then I will try and sell it...I wonder if anyone will bite? Anyone need a starter?

[Mopar1973Man]

Sad to hear that you ended up buying a starter. I've fixed enough of these darn things to do it blindfolded. So if you hang on to it and we meet sometime in the future I could get it straighten out some time.

[hex0rz]

Eh, maybe I'll ship it to you! :lol:I just could not go without fixing my truck. I had no option. Otherwise I may have not been able to get to work...

[hex0rz]

Alrighty, so I took a little time this evening to look over the starter. I can't say that I found anything more different than before I installed it on the truck. I spent some time soldering the brushes to the winding better. Had to breakdown to using a microtorch without the solder tip attachment. Also used silver solder instead of electrical or metal solder.I'm confident now it is not the contact with the brushes and windings. Something else is awry...Once I got it together again I hooked it up to my battery and "benchtested" it. Now, I'm confused! When I did it, the plunger pushes the pinion out, but there is no rotation. It just pops out and makes a clicking noise. The pinion just bounces.Mike, could you possible take some pictures of this indexing stuff you speak of? I dunno if this is whats affecting it or not. Should I snap pics for you guys to give you an idea of what I'm facing?

[hex0rz]

Bump?

[Mopar1973Man]

I wish I could find the pictures I had of a friends starter I took totally apart. All I can tell you there is a square notch in the brush plate and there will be a square lug or pin in the can that lines the brush plate up in perfect position. If the plate is out of time or just wrong position then there is a problem. As for the lack of spin is the contacts that control power for the motor itself. So if the pinion is popping out then the contact plunger is moving but not connecting to the motor (contact problem).

[hex0rz]

I wish I could find the pictures I had of a friends starter I took totally apart. All I can tell you there is a square notch in the brush plate and there will be a square lug or pin in the can that lines the brush plate up in perfect position. If the plate is out of time or just wrong position then there is a problem.

As for the lack of spin is the contacts that control power for the motor itself. So if the pinion is popping out then the contact plunger is moving but not connecting to the motor (contact problem).

Can you tell me where this would be on the brush plate?

[Mopar1973Man]

I wish I could see the entire starter before it was pull apart. I scratching my head to the 2 holes and the 2 threaded holes. There has to be a means of setting the timing of the brush plate and keeping it exactly right. The last starter I played with was on a 1992 Cummins so it might be different in plate design. But still the brushes have to be timed.

[hex0rz]

I wish I could see the entire starter before it was pull apart. I scratching my head to the 2 holes and the 2 threaded holes. There has to be a means of setting the timing of the brush plate and keeping it exactly right. The last starter I played with was on a 1992 Cummins so it might be different in plate design. But still the brushes have to be timed.

2 of the 4 holes are for the long bolts that go through the starter to bolt it togther. The other 2 holes are for a phillipsscrew that hold the brush plate in place. So maybe this is what you are talking about?

[Mopar1973Man]

Ok. So its different that the older starter I dealt with. So now the big trick is making sure the brush plate is in right and the right brushes in the right holder.