Hard Shifting NV5600

[Ilikeoldfords]

So this problem has been eating away at me for a while now. Ever since I bought this truck almost 2 years ago, it has always had a hard shift problem. It almost feels like the clutch doesn't release fully right away. I figured it was the stock hydro's going out. I replaced them with the valair HD set from DAP. It definitely helped the problem but it hasn't completely gone away. I thought at first maybe the tranny is just starting to wear out being it has over 200k on it, but it feels exactly the same in every gear. I tried adjusting the clutch pedal out farther so it gets more travel and pushes the clutch more. Still feels like the clutch isn't releasing all the way at first. The truck doesn't try to creep forward on me or anything, I just have to hold the clutch in for about 2-3 seconds in between shifts if I don't want to "catch" the next gear hard. Without pulling the tranny, I am not sure what else I can do. Would a worn out pilot bearing/bushing cause this? The clutch doesn't slip or anything yet. I just don't want to wear my tranny out prematurely or whatever. I even replaced the fluid with no change in behavior. Sorry for the novel guys, just don't know what to do.

[Ilikeoldfords]

I suppose I might call the tranny shop in town and see what they think. I just kind or want to get an idea of what I could be looking at before I have it torn into. Ill keep posted here with what I find.

[dorkweed]

The NV5600 is a truck tranny. Many have complained of shifting in the past………………………and a lot have come over from cars and "lighter" trucks. Have you tried different rpm's to shift at??? Shifting faster or slower…...gear shifter??? Timing the "shift" and clutch slightly differently???? I use Amsoil MTF and she shifts just like she did when new.You're not alone here.

[Ilikeoldfords]

I have tried pretty much everything I know how to. The only way it doesn't grind into gear between shifts is holding the clutch down for 2-3 seconds before putting it into the next gear or double clutching. I talked to a popular tranny shop today and they said it sounds like the pilot bearing could be out. I guess it has been at least 100,000 miles since anyone had been in there. Possible the bearing is out I would guess.

[IBMobile]

It's hard to shift in to all gears so what do they all have in common. Fluid, if low you with no could have hard shifting and worn bearings but it's been like that for 2yrs and no worn bearings, and you replaced the fluid with no improvement. you replaced the stock hydro's with some improvement, this is the clutch slave and master I take it. The only things that are left are the t/o bearing, pressure plate, clutch disk, and pilot bearing. I think the tranny need to come out and have those components inspected. "The pilot bearing supports the transmission inputshaft, maintains proper clutch assembly alignmentand allows the transmission input shaft to rotate at adifferent speed (RPM) than the engine mountedcrankshaft.When the clutch pedal is depressed (with vehicle indrive mode) the clutch disc slows and stops therefore,the transmission input shaft slows and stops as well.The pilot bearing allows the engine crankshaft tocontinue to rotate even though the transmissioninput shaft is stationary". page 6-18 of the repair manual

[Ilikeoldfords]

Thanks for the break down there. It has been a long time since I did my last clutch job. It seems I may have forgot some of those details. I am going to look at doing the clutch pretty soon anyway. I have no idea what clutch is in there so it would be nice to have that piece of mind. Thanks all for the input and knowledge. Ill keep this thread posted with whatever I find that way people in the future have a resource.

[Ilikeoldfords]

So when I start looking for clutches..... What is everyone's preference?? I am looking at this maybe. I have no plans for going any bigger on the power side of things than whats in my sig. I am looking to not spend to much, but I don't want to settle for a stock clutch.

[dripley]

Thats what I have in mine. It is not as smooth as the stock, but a good clutch. Just a little grabby on take off if you dont just let the clutch fairly quick.

[Ilikeoldfords]

Also, whenever I do the clutch, should I just use the bearing that comes with the kit? Or should I find a bushing instead?

[Wild and Free]

Bushing...............always a bushing on automotive applications, they last longer and give fewer problems.

[Ilikeoldfords]

Would you happen to have a part number on that bushing? I will be using the stock flywheel still.

[dripley]

I believe that clutch will come with the bushing you need. As I remember mine did. I also used the stock flywheel and had it resurfaced. Just ask the vendor you are buying from and they should be able to tell you about the bushing.

- - - Updated - - -

Bushing...............always a bushing on automotive applications, they last longer and give fewer problems.

Appreciate the info. I did not realize that when I did mine.

[dorkweed]

Myself, Mopar1973Man, and AH64ID run the SouthBend Con OFE in our trucks. We like them. It's rated for, IIRC, 450HP and 1000ft.lbs. of torque. The Valair is a good brand also……………………………the price in your link seems AMAZINGLY low though for a clutch that'll hold that much power!!

[Ilikeoldfords]

That price is the main reason I think I'm going to get that one. For the power it holds and being a valair I figured it was the best bang for my buck.

[dripley]

IIRC the SB OFE comes with a new flywheel where the Valair does not. My Valair has held up with the Banks chip, RV 275', and a 15K 5th wheel pulling any grade as hard as I want to. Though I probably will try the SB next time since I will most likely need a new fly wheel.

[Ilikeoldfords]

Oh man I really hope I wont need a new flywheel too. Kinda short on the moneys at the moment. Guess I wont know until I get in there and see. Thanks all for the info and knowledge again.

[dripley]

I had mine resurfaced and the man who installed my clutch told me it looked great when it went in. Unfortunately I was too far away to look at it before install. He seemed fairly trust worthy and also helped me out with the ECM replacement. Got me one thru Dodge with a warranty from them for about $1300 as I remember. You will want to have yours resurfaced before installing the new clutch. I believe that cost me around $100.

[Wild and Free]

From having done flywheel resurfacing with both grinding tables and a lathe find a shop that grinds them and doesn't lathe cut them, they are a smoother surface and are not as jumpy or grabby after a clutch install. Same goes with rotors grinding will always have better results.Plus people tend to take too much material off while cutting on a lathe versus a grinding table where you actually run it down a small bit as it is grinding until you actually see the whole face has been resurfaced and the hot spots and high spots are gone without going too far.Don't let them go so far as to go down until all of the heat cracks are gone either, I have seen guys take them down until they see a 100% clean surface which will gain you nothing except a thinner flywheel, some heat cracking present hurts nothing as long as it is ground smooth and true. All you need is to true up the surface and take the glazing off of it.If one has an inset flywheel or a flywheel with a lip then one needs to use the lathe to finish up the edge lip area as you can not get into corners with a grinding wheel.

[dripley]

I did not know this when I had mine done and the clutch was very grabby when new. Really had to put some wear and tear on it to get it to calm down.

[Wild and Free]

I did not know this when I had mine done and the clutch was very grabby when new. Really had to put some wear and tear on it to get it to calm down.

This isn't always a flywheel issue but it becomes a whole lot more critical to have a ground flywheel if running an aggressive ceramic button type clutch versus an organic faced clutch, I have seen lathe cut flywheels matched up with ceramic button clutches and it is definitely not a user friendly combination. Jumpy and grabby is a mild term for the nasty way they engage. I have had to pull brand new clutch jobs apart that someone had the flywheel cut on a lathe or not true up at all as the rigs were not even safely drivable.