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hex0rz

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I'am BEYOND WORDS!

http://www.prisonplanet.com/5-men-rush-to-save-dying-woman-as-cop-chats-on-phone.html

:nono:

This once again, reiterates the situation discussed earlier in rancherman's thread. Except, instead of being the victim, how would you respond to something like this as a passerby?

I carry a medical bag, blankets, gloves, towstraps, some other relevant tools for emergencies. I think I may need to rethink how I could every approach such a situation like this to see if I ever could do any good for someone.

I do not know the full extent of the situation, nor the immediate area, but I think kicking the truck into 4 low and hooking a tow strap up to the rear control arms of the overturned car and pulling it out of the water enough to gain some access and try and further prevent a person from drowning would have been a good idea... Think I might need to put some of my logging cables back into the truck. :2cents:

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Yea, it is a pretty sad deal... does not seem like there are very many courageous people out there these days. Even if, I suppose the good guys are just not in the right place at the right time.Hey though, my brother in law is a police officer and I would think that he would do anything he could to try and help... He sees whats going on and also does not want to know everyones problems, so he is hoping to get out of it.But, IMHO, I think people that want to see the LEO's change for the better, then that means they should be that person to step up and do it. I told my wife I would not mind becoming a Sheriff one day. Atleast I know I would stand with the American people and they definitely would not have to worry about me!On a side note, what would you have done? :think:

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On a side note, what would you have done? :think:

I would have been cold and wet at the end of that situation. I can't tell you how many times I have had to wash blood off my hands after a car crash and other accidents.
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They are normal people COP "Citizen on patrol" and are protected under the "Good Samaritan" clause as well. They are law enforcement and most are not trained in rescue or even as first responders, he was well within his right to not help if he didn't want to or was not comfortable in not doing so.In most cases they are probably instructed to leave it to others to get around being sued now days.:nono:

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He sure wasn't talking to the police station, doctor, ambulance driver, etc... I can it being a different light if he was on the phone getting a ambulance there, or other help but to stand on the phone and do nothing just gets me wound up. I'm a fire fighter and I'm under the same laws as that police officer and I would gladly give everything I got and take the risk of being sued. I'm sure police dept. has wonderful lawyers and attorneys to keep them them out of trouble.

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A few states require a LEO to render aid, BUT in all states the LEO is covered under the Good Samaritan law (as you state Bill) and therefore is immune to lawsuits the same as you and I. That being said, every LEO has a MORAL obligation to do what he or she can to assist. If all he could do is talk on the phone rather than assist he has no business wearing that uniform in MY opinion. There is something in the oath that they take that says "To protect and serve". He did neither.

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A few states require a LEO to render aid, BUT in all states the LEO is covered under the Good Samaritan law (as you state Bill) and therefore is immune to lawsuits the same as you and I. That being said, every LEO has a MORAL obligation to do what he or she can to assist. If all he could do is talk on the phone rather than assist he has no business wearing that uniform in MY opinion. There is something in the oath that they take that says "To protect and serve". He did neither.

Totally agree with you, except one thing:

"To protect and serve" ...it may have meant just what it says back when it became a motto, but presently, with rulings that say the police are not obligated to render aid, it merely just becomes a meaning of protecting the LAW and serving the LAW. :banghead:

- - - Updated - - -

I would have been cold and wet at the end of that situation. I can't tell you how many times I have had to wash blood off my hands after a car crash and other accidents.

Sure, but how exactly do you suppose you would have approached it? I was not necessarily trying to turn this into a bashing, but more of a strategic look to it. Suppose I should have presented it differently in the beginning, lol.
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Well I would have to say that I am thoroughly disappointed in the effort put forth by the man marked police but I am curious as how so many speak poorly of him but do not make mention of the fact that the fellow with the camera also stood by and "filmed" the drowning of a person as opposed to helping. Moral obligations to help someone go far beyond being sworn to serve and protect, but sadly enough, not everyone has that ingrained into their moral composition. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I wonder if those 2 guys could have put their phones down if 7 people would have what it took to roll that car up on its side enough to get her head out of the water...On hard ground it would be no problem but hard to say being in the water like that. I do know that 7 people with their adrenaline pumping can do some pretty amazing things. Even if it were just enough to shove a log or something similar under the roof, it doesn't appear that she was under the water very much....Of course my first move would have been cutting the seatbelt (I ALWAYS carry a buck knife on my side). I heard mention of a knife mid way through the video so not sure where the hang up was....its hard to say what you would or wouldn't do in that situation but I would have went down fighting, that's for sure... JR

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Well I would have to say that I am thoroughly disappointed in the effort put forth by the man marked police but I am curious as how so many speak poorly of him but do not make mention of the fact that the fellow with the camera also stood by and "filmed" the drowning of a person as opposed to helping. Moral obligations to help someone go far beyond being sworn to serve and protect, but sadly enough, not everyone has that ingrained into their moral composition.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Valid point. There is a lot of people that stand around with video camera recording all kinds of illegal and dumb acts. He's just as much to blame as the police officer talking on the phone.
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Police Officers are protected. I was a part-time officer for 9+ years (now 25 years ago). Their "shield" is not just their badge but also a legal shield for acts done under their public authority. At that time, all part-timers were required to have First Aid... full time officers were being upgraded to First Responders. My wife was on Ski Patrol and was certified as a First Responder... they had all the training an EMT would have without the advanced equipment in the Rescue truck. Though now off the ski patrol, she still carries her first aid belt. (She is credited with saving a life by her rapid & correct assessment on hill.) Many PDs were equipping Police cars with AEDs because they are on Patrol & often first to arrive on scene. There is no excuse for that Police Officer to be standing around, not doing anything useful to the victim's rescue. None. He should have calling it in, getting more help there, getting out the first aid gear from his cruiser. In the ocean front community I served, Police cars had life rings with lines attached. I carry a tow strap in my truck... a couple of knives including a folding razor knife in my door pocket tools...

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I have numerous friends in law enfocement and they are the ones who told me some of these things and while I was in First responder training they drilled it into our heads as well to not depend on LEO's for support in this area as well, Not the law enforcements fault that so many want to jump on the lawsuit wagon right away for every little thing so they stay back and away to prevent department issues. Even with the Good samaritan clause law suits are still ramant in society.Not defending the officers actions in the video at all on this one but society dictates the actions of a lot now days.:banghead:

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Sure, but how exactly do you suppose you would have approached it? I was not necessarily trying to turn this into a bashing, but more of a strategic look to it. Suppose I should have presented it differently in the beginning, lol.

Well, without being there it is very difficult to give you a step by step appraisal of what I think should be done. Suffice it to say I would have gotten wet. Far as that "officer", is it possible that with his assistance the victim may have been extricated 30 seconds, 60 seconds, or even minutes sooner and possibly survived? I know you guys discuss attempting to roll the vehicle back over, but in my opinion that would not be a very safe thing to do. The time involved to carry out such a plan would be detrimental to the victim. There is the chance that one (or more) of the would be rescuers become a victim also. The best way in my opinion is to do what the rescuers did and get the door open and cut the victim out. I do know that LEOs are trained in basic first aid (at least here in the US) and when the victim was gotten out the "officer" stood there and continued to do nothing. LEOs here are trained to take control of a situation and again, the "officer" did NOTHING. Forget the 'lawsuit' bullshit. THAT "OFFICER" DID NOTHING. Now to the person filming, Do you have any description of the person doing the recording? It is possible that they are a younger child, or a CITIZEN who chooses not to get involved. That is their right as a CITIZEN. LEOs are held to a higher standard.
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For me, as an individual, I have decided that I will do anything I can, no matter what the repercussions of my actions... I throw everything to the side and consider that I have more of a heart to do something, rather than nothing.It is my hope that someday, the people who are in positions of authority will consider the same...Also, I'm just merely trying to provoke thoughts about how you would approach such a situation. It takes pre-planning for an incident to truly carry out an effective real world solution. Its before the event that you can try and examine all facets of it before having to deal with it. Same goes for someone who carry's a gun for defense. You should always think proactively about things and anticipate things before it ever even happens. Otherwise, you get caught with your pants down.

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Too many folks rush into an unsafe scene to help and wind up becoming victims themselves, one needs to make sure the scene is safe first and foremost before putting yourself or others in harms way..................................Emergency Response 101 rule #1.

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Too many folks rush into an unsafe scene to help and wind up becoming victims themselves, one needs to make sure the scene is safe first and foremost before putting yourself or others in harms way..................................Emergency Response 101 rule #1.

Yep, I was always taught to assess the situation first, assist second.
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But the absolutely necessary assessment must be rapid... and training helps. Wife had one such case. My wife was first ski patrol on scene... a young teen skier had gone off the trail, struck a tree & had an apparent head injury. She accessed his responses immediately... was conscious & could answer questions... & after checking for broken bones repeated seconds later... slightly less... Called for the EMS (FD Rescue) before beginning transport down off the hill. Ordinarily, a patient would have been treated in their room while waiting for the EMS. In this case the EMS had already arrived on scene. Patient was continuing to deteriorate. Patient arrested 10 minutes in transport to Pediatric Trauma Center 30 minutes away. Diverted to closer Hospital, (where my wife worked at the time) stabilized, left for Trauma Center with 2 additional ER nurses on life support on board. The Pediatric Trauma Center was ready for him & had successful surgery. Kid has a steel plate now but not only survived but returned to school in a very few weeks with no signs of permanent damage. In the video, there may have been enough people in the water... too many can be as bad as too few... but who was getting them tools, a knife, blankets, a rope to pull people out? The cop might not have been most useful in the water... Surely he could have organized a shore party to get needed items. (I keep a blanket in the back seat of all my vehicles year around.) Not long ago an officer in a neighboring town had to go in after someone. Before he did, he dropped his gunbelt & vest so he wasn't weighted down. I thought about that very situation when I was a p-t officer... apparently his equipment was right where he left it when the next units fished him & the driver out.

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