Anothe fuel pressure gauge question

[Lone Watie]

For 99 owners, where did you tap for your fuel line to gauge. My filter housing doesn't have anything on bottom to tap into like Mike's does. All I have on filter housing is the inline from the lift pump and the out line to the IP, both are on top of the filter housing. Also there are 2 capped ports on top, sorry no pics right now. Is the out line to the IP where I would thread in my tapped banjo bolt for the fuel line. Also, is it okay to run braided line all the way to mech. gauge, don't want isolator. Plan on doing the needle valve setup. Will braided line go into the gauge, i.e. will it thread into the port on the gauge itself, or do I have to do the nylon tubing kit. Thanks.

[Mopar1973Man]

I purchased a tapped banjo bolt from Geno's Garage for the fuel pressure gauge... (Staock system) Since you got the older style filter housing you can use the port on top. (Inner most port sohuld be to VP44). Then yes you need a needle valve so you going right ans the braided line to the gauge is fine for under dash but A-pillar it going to be a really PITA. If all the fittings are 1/8" NPT then yes...

[Lone Watie]

For 99 owners, where did you tap for your fuel line to gauge. My filter housing doesn't have anything on bottom to tap into like Mike's does. All I have on filter housing is the inline from the lift pump and the out line to the IP, both are on top of the filter housing. Also there are 2 capped ports on top, sorry no pics right now. Is the out line to the IP where I would thread in my tapped banjo bolt for the fuel line. Also, is it okay to run braided line all the way to mech. gauge, don't want isolator. Plan on doing the needle valve setup. Will braided line go into the gauge, i.e. will it thread into the port on the gauge itself, or do I have to do the nylon tubing kit. Thanks.

Thanks for quick reply, still a little confused about which port - when you say inner most port, do you mean the port with the fuel line going to the VP44 or one of the ports which is just capped off. As for the braided line, I plan on probably going with the steering pod so I can keep the a pillar free for the other 3 gauges down the road. Do you think the braided line will be flexible enough to route under dash up to steering mount pod? Also, I noticed you just use the nylon tubing - are you pretty happy with that set up? Only reason was considering braided line was for durability, plus looks good. What are your thoughts on the braided line? Mike you are a true Cummins Diesel renaissance man, by the way, and your guidance is appreciated. Did you happen to read my latest post concerning the SGII? My mpg numbers still are all over the place, and not sure I can justify keeping this thing. Just did a fill up yesterday from 1/4 tank like book says, but still getting a lot of jumping around on dynamic mpg. The only time the dynamic/real time mpg seems to be accurate is when I accelerate - it calms it down to the upper teens to mid 20s only then, but it's driving the average up to an unreal number. I'm backing my calculations up by hand, by the way, and pulling almost 19 from last fill up to now. Also, had to make a major adjustment to the amount the SGII thinks I put in the tank, around 13 gallons or so if remember correctly. It just doesn't seem to want to give my any accuracy. I like the idea of it, and am really giving this thing a fair shake, but it's not looking too good for keeping it, as the main reason I want to use it is for mpg. Thanks again.

[Mopar1973Man]

Thanks for quick reply, still a little confused about which port - when you say inner most port, do you mean the port with the fuel line going to the VP44 or one of the ports which is just capped off.

You got 2 lines on top capped off the inner most to the center should be the pressure after the filter...

As for the braided line, I plan on probably going with the steering pod so I can keep the a pillar free for the other 3 gauges down the road. Do you think the braided line will be flexible enough to route under dash up to steering mount pod?

Have no idea.

Also, I noticed you just use the nylon tubing - are you pretty happy with that set up?

Yes... I've got it routed in such a manner that nothing rubs it and it completely shielded from damage. The only place i'm not to happy with is where it hooks up on the fuel line...

Only reason was considering braided line was for durability, plus looks good. What are your thoughts on the braided line? Mike you are a true Cummins Diesel renaissance man, by the way, and your guidance is appreciated.

SS Braided line is rather common in the fuel pressure gauges but as for fitment it can be rather tough for routing from what I heard because of the lack of flex and OD of the phyiscal line...

Did you happen to read my latest post concerning the SGII?

No not yet...

My mpg numbers still are all over the place, and not sure I can justify keeping this thing.

Normal... MPG display wil wander all over. I see everything from 0 to 9,999 MPG... But that instant at that exact second... You need a XGauge setup with Todays MPG or Total MPG to see a average MPG number of some sort that doesn't wonder everywhere... But remember as you first atart out even these will wonder to the average builds up then becomes more stable.

Just did a fill up yesterday from 1/4 tank like book says, but still getting a lot of jumping around on dynamic mpg.

I'll get a video of mine and show you... But give me a few days...

The only time the dynamic/real time mpg seems to be accurate is when I accelerate - it calms it down to the upper teens to mid 20s only then, but it's driving the average up to an unreal number.

Like mine jumps between 14-500 MPG with cruise set at 55 MPH... Every roll in the road is shown. Up a roll it falls down a roll it rises...

I'm backing my calculations up by hand, by the way, and pulling almost 19 from last fill up to now. Also, had to make a major adjustment to the amount the SGII thinks I put in the tank, around 13 gallons or so if remember correctly. It just doesn't seem to want to give my any accuracy. I like the idea of it, and am really giving this thing a fair shake, but it's not looking too good for keeping it, as the main reason I want to use it is for mpg. Thanks again.

Give it time and calibrate it a few times...

Short story... I bought mine orignally for my Mom's truck to diagnose a error code problem but I desided to hook it up and us the MPG display too... OMG! The number were WAY off... Showing about 53-70 MPG as a tank total... After doing a calibration 2 or 3 times and getting the offset right now it just about dead nuts prefect. But you want to know what the offset was???

233% OFFSET...

Yes... It took awhile of check hand math, GPS the speedometer and odometer fo correct numbers, and verifying the numbers from the SGII... But tell you the truth I trust the SGII more so that the fuel gauge in her truck now... When I pull up to the pump and the price it shows it usually right on the money if the price per gallon has changed...

as for the offset on my truck its 9.6%... I know it time to verify mine again too...

[Lone Watie]

Mike - once again, thanks, here is a pic of the fuel filter housing, do you mean the port on the left?

Edited January 14, 2010 by Lone Watie

[Mopar1973Man]

I think so... The pic is rather small but if you watch the routing of the fuel lines to the center line should go to the VP44 and the outter line back towards the lift pump... ISX is the wizard at this! I've got the newer filter with the connection on the bottom...

[ISX]

I thought for a moment you early 24 valver's had the same filter as me, but theres some big differences in some things. I attached a pic of what you have, think you can see what you need to do. Heres what mine looks like, you can see all the changes you have over mine.. http://forum.mopar1973man.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=430

[Mopar1973Man]

Yeah you busted me... My Bad...

[Lone Watie]

I thought for a moment you early 24 valver's had the same filter as me, but theres some big differences in some things. I attached a pic of what you have, think you can see what you need to do. Heres what mine looks like, you can see all the changes you have over mine.. http://forum.mopar1973man.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=430

ISX - do you have that ss fuel line going all the way to gauge? Are the fittings for the ss line 1/8? Did you have to reduce the ss fitting down to 1/8 anywhere in the line? Is that a 90 degree elbow coming out of the port? Did you use a tapped banjo bolt? Thanks for the picture and help.

[ISX]

I stole that picture so I am not exactly sure of all this, I have never seen your version of the fuel filter housing personally either. It appears to me that he has a needle valve screwed into there and then you screw your 90 into it so that you don't have to bend the ss line. You will probably have to adapt it down to 1/8" before it gets in the cab. I am very interested in what yours looks like so if you get a chance at another pic, get real close to the top so I can see all the fine details.. Searched a little more, found this pic, gives you a better idea of things.. The other pic shows which one you need, that one's mine so it doesn't have all those things drilled and tapped, but I think you still get the idea, you want the post filter pressure, if you put it on prefilter pressure, the filter could clog and might even start to build pressure on the gauge but your VP would die because the post side of the filter, being clogged, would have no pressure..

Edited January 15, 2010 by ISX

[guesswho512]

i have a 99...i'll snap so pics...i'm still trying to figure out this fuel heater thing...if you can't buy parts to fix these thing than maybe some year models are interchangeable?

[Lone Watie]

Thanks for all the help/tips/advice. Ordered a dipricol optix black face/bezel mech. fuel pressure gauge from puredieselpower.com today. Going to try and route it with the braided stainless steel line using the dash mount from geno's. While shopping at geno's picked up a few other things also, vulcan fuel pressure test gauge, filter maintenance kit, the 4-2-1, tranny filter/gasket, banjo bolt and gaskets. Hopefully will see it all some time next week so I can install the gauge on my next week off, week after next, plus do the routine maintenance thing (long overdue, should have my wrist slapped). Will post some pics once I get the gauge installed. Had my instrument cluster bezel and cup holder off yesterday looking for a good place to splice into. I think using the cup holder light wiring will work as it dims with the dimmer and is close to the cubby mount. Was going to get the steering mount, but figured the braided stainless line will probably not like the extreme bend which would be needed, whereas there's plenty of room for flexibility under the dash. Plan on using the firewall plug which is currently unused (the one to the right of the steering wheel), plus a grommet for protection. Again, thanks for the help, and look forward to getting it in, getting some pics posted, and any tips that some other newbie like me might be able to use.Once I absorb the shock of today's order, will be getting the other gauges soon, and working on an aftermarket fueling system (still undecided on which).

Edited January 15, 2010 by Lone Watie

[Mopar1973Man]

I tapped the illumination lead on the stereo adapter for my Kenwood stereo. The lead is un-used so why not... Thinking of maintenance I need to check my logs... :rolleyes2:

[Lone Watie]

There's an idea also, I just figured the cup holder would be easier as there's only 2 wires going into it as opposed to other things which have many more, i.e. less chance for a screw up (I'm not the smartest one around). I lost track of my maintenance when I was overseas for 4 years. Got a new lift pump and VP44 during that time courtesy of a relative who was watching my truck who accidentally filled it with gas, got back from overseas and had lots going on my last couple years in the military, but now am getting my mind right boss, and getting back into taking care of my girl. By the way, the SGII looks like it might be putting out some more credible numbers today. We'll see.

[Mopar1973Man]

I got one for you... My trip to town my pyrometer was floating about 400*F and about 2 PSI of boost at 55-60 MPH. By the time I hit town SGII was showing my Today MPG at 38.9 MPG after traveling 15 miles. I did my business and had for home back the same 15 miles. Cruise set for 55 MPH and my boost was varying about 7-10 PSI with pyrometer floating 800-1000*F still average out at 21.2 MPG... Funny what a tail wind to town and then a nasty head wind home will do with 30 miles... I've gotten so good I can pinch good number even with bad weather...

[Hood Latch]

You say that you do not intend to use an isolator in your line. Why is that? I don't mean to imply that you should, I'm curious as to why, because I am getting ready to install a fuel pressure gauge on my 2001 and have wondered myself as to any ill effects that an isolator may cause in giving a false reading at the gauge. I am installing the DiPricol mechanical gauge. I kind of like the idea of the isolator (for it's intended reasons) but only if it will provide accurate readings. Anybody else have thoughts about this? Thanks.....Hood Latch

[flman]

For 99 owners, where did you tap for your fuel line to gauge. My filter housing doesn't have anything on bottom to tap into like Mike's does. All I have on filter housing is the inline from the lift pump and the out line to the IP, both are on top of the filter housing. Also there are 2 capped ports on top, sorry no pics right now. Is the out line to the IP where I would thread in my tapped banjo bolt for the fuel line. Also, is it okay to run braided line all the way to mech. gauge, don't want isolator. Plan on doing the needle valve setup. Will braided line go into the gauge, i.e. will it thread into the port on the gauge itself, or do I have to do the nylon tubing kit. Thanks.

You know, if something ever went wrong, like an accident, or the gauge bellows fractured or any thing else, do you really want fuel spraying in your cab? If you are not going to use the isolator, you should at least get a gauge that mounts out side, in front of the wind shield. I have the isolator, and I would say it makes my gauge a little less accurate, but I value living through a crash over fuel pressure accuracy. I was considering going with a pod and getting electronic gauges, or trying to find a new gauge cluster panel for my dash that has more gauges then my truck was originally built with.

[Lone Watie]

You know, if something ever went wrong, like an accident, or the gauge bellows fractured or any thing else, do you really want fuel spraying in your cab? If you are not going to use the isolator, you should at least get a gauge that mounts out side, in front of the wind shield. I have the isolator, and I would say it makes my gauge a little less accurate, but I value living through a crash over fuel pressure accuracy. I was considering going with a pod and getting electronic gauges, or trying to find a new gauge cluster panel for my dash that has more gauges then my truck was originally built with.

It was a tough decision for me concerning using isolator or not. Lots of reading here and on CF mention the problems with isolators going out, and the inaccuracy, then again, there's probably a lot of folks who've used one with no problem. My reasoning, which may not be the most sensible, is with something mechanical, I'd simply rather mitigate the risk of a leak using a tougher line, and minimizing the curvature/stress of where the line is placed, hence the dash cubby. I also figure that if I'm going to use something that doesn't have a direct mech. link to the gauge, I would be better off using an electrical gauge. A leak is a leak to me, just a matter of whether I want antifreeze v. diesel leaking. As for accidents, well I have no come back for that, because anything can happen. It's a calculated risk decision with me. I figure that if I'm in an accident which would cause my fuel line to rupture from its placement on my filter then its routing into the cab (center mounted on the dash) I probably have a lot more to worry about than a few drops of leaking diesel, i.e. my front end will probably be crushed in pretty good at that point. Your points are excellent points, hence the manufacturers recommendation to use an isolator. The jury is still out, as I haven't mounted anything yet, and my ss braided line may not work the way I envision and I might have to rethink my plan. I will be using a needle valve as recommended here to minimize the amount of fuel going into the gauge, though.

[flman]

The anti freeze would be a few tablespoons, the fuel would be pressurized and flowing until you can stop it, if you are able to, if you are still conscious and the key still works? I used the isolator, but you are on your own, hope it all works out for you.

[Lone Watie]

Lots of good points here to consider not using an isolator, and I'm not at all discounting all the concerns, as they are definitely warranted. As for installing without isolator, for those who don't use an isolator, what steps need to be taken? I was reading over on CF about having to bleed the line at the gauge. Any tips on best way to do this. Is this the order I would install this gauge:1. Tap into filter with needle valve closed2. Run/route my line into the cab3. Install into the gauge4. Bleed the line at the gauge?4. Make my lighting connectionsThanks.