Injector install

[rdsutton]

Installing new injectors 5x0.014 on truck in sig this weekend, would like to know what some of you put on the injector sleeve and locator ball to keep it from sticking/seizing in the head? Thanks Dave

[MnTom]

Dave, just put a little bit anti-sieze on it and won't be a problem, but most of the time just put them in with a light coat of grease and you will be fine.

[Mopar1973Man]

Dave, just put a little bit anti-sieze on it and won't be a problem, but most of the time just put them in with a light coat of grease and you will be fine.

 

Absolutely... As long as you add some grease or anti-seize you shouldn't have any problems.

Edited July 9, 2014 by MnTom
Fat Fingers!!LOL

[skellyman]

I seem to recall Cummins recommended  a 60/40 mix of engine oil and STP , though it may have been for NHC/ NTC engines only.

[diesel4life]

On the subject of anti sieze, I'm sure most are aware of the required torque reduction when using it. Most torque critical fasteners/parts will specify what is recommended like Skellyman says. If the recommended lube is antisieze no reduction is necessary. Normally a light grade oil is recommended. In some instances a dry torque is called for but not very often.I'm forced to use it on pretty much everything if I want it to come apart again due to all the salt and humidity we get, so it's something I have to be mindful of especially on really critical parts. Heres a good link to Bostiks site, if you scroll down to the different types of antisieze and the specs they also list the % in torque reduction for each type of sieze.

http://www.bostik-us.com/sites/default/files/N1%20NeverSeez%20Brochure%202011.pdf

Edited July 10, 2014 by diesel4life

[rdsutton]

Thanks for sharing all! I hope to have it running by Sat. ?

[rdsutton]

Got it running, that's all I can say! Could use a second pair of hands to get it dialed in? Cold beer & $$$, will this help? LOL... ISX come on out, I'm ONLY a 10hr trip from you? Or you might already be in the area, stop on by, LOL. See ya Dave

[ISX]

Whats wrong with it?

[YabbaDoo]

You are not alone my friend...     I too, had issues with "dialing it in"   I think as of yesterday I might have my problem solved   I have had injector # 6 out at least 4x trying to figure out why it was leaking. I called DAP and told them of the issues I was having and they sent out some new washers immediately(the USPS was a bit in the slow side in getting them here, they were supposed to be here Thursday and got here yesterday the 12th). Being that I am a bit of an impatient gal, I went down to Cummins and picked up a set of washers on Tuesday  I will say I stopped by Harbor Freight because they have a 80pk assortment of copper washers for 6.00 but, I had used a caliper on one of the ones sent by DAP and the inside diameter was slightly bigger on the Harbor Freight washers and I didn't want to risk not using the right part so I drove to the far East side of Tampa and bought the Cummins washers @ 3.10ea   But low and behold the ones from Cummins are a solid .255 and the ones from DAP are .235. I came home took the #6 injector back out to make sure the Copper sealing washer was on the injector properly, and to check if the metal ring and ball were on the injector body as per DAP's recommendation, and that the inside of the bore was clean as a whistle like I know I did the first time.  Put it all back together and it still leaked   Tried using 4 different washers and finally it looked like I fixed the leak. Took it down to the feed store to pick up feed and sure enough by the time I got there it was leaking again   By this time being the girl that I am I just wanted to CRY!!!! But, thankfully I am about as bullheaded as they come and I just took the washer back out and tried turning it around to see if that would help...It did, for the first test drive so I took my friends out to supper about 25 miles from here and by the time we got where we were going it was leaking yet again!! (Where is that head smashing into the brick wall emoticon?) Well my happy little butt went over to Harbor Freight and got those other copper washers and installed those... Not leaking right now(hope it stays that way)     but time will tell. DAP has sent another injector just in case and I will say their customer service is awesome!!! Not too many companies you can say that about these days either (BD's Customer Service Sucks)

Trying to get the truck Dialed in before my road trip next week!!! Headed to a 5 day Music Festival in Floyd,VA!!!!! On a good note my BHAF arrived and is now installed. Just have to make a shield for it now. I can also say I never heard the turbo before installing the BHAF, I do now  

[rdsutton]

Way to gut it out, yaddadoo, that's my next crank to get the truck dialed in. ISX, here goes, A couple of years ago I did the 16.5* timming using the math U demonstrated in vid. "Awesome", and marked the harmonic balancer. All well and a very responsive truck! Along with Valve adj & AFC mod. To now. Installed a mod HX35, 63/68/12 to hopefully run a little cooler and ADD SOME HP, and ran it with stock injectors, never cloud get it to spool over 28psi. And EGT's over 1300 when I towed or WOT. Ck and fixed all boost leaks, inner cooler boot, and intake air horn. I knew it would be a bit laggy, peddle like a brick, till I got new sticks, but tuned AFC for best RSPONCE. And waited for my DFI 5x0.014's to arrive. While I waited, retorqed all head bolts, power coated V covers, compressor housing, twin ram intake Horne CLASSIC RED. Looks good! Put turbo compressor housing on, PITA big snap ring, injectors text book install, then put a snubber on injector pmp inlet for a fuel gauge. Bled the lines and she started right up. Went for a drive and just shook my head! Drove like it had stock sticks. My fuel psi. 25 @ idle and 30-38 when driving mild acceleration. The truck will start to spool @ 1200-1300rpm to 10-15 boost then drop, if I wot it will spool to mabe 25 then drop off. AGAIN I have checked,,,, boost leaks, none, Pulled AFC off and adj foot to full rack travel @35-40psi, #100 plate & AFC housing are full forward. Adjusted idle to 850rpm and ck all throttle linkage, fuel shut off silinoid arm travel opes all the way, I keep telling myself that it's NOT the timming because it starts on first crank like it did before I messed with it. Thanks any help would be great.

[rdsutton]

Smoke screw adj so a puff @ start, clears right away, star wheel, I have it backed all the loose, maybe 2-3 turs on it, if I put 15 -20 turns on it the truck will hardly accelerate, and the peddle is a Cement Block!

[bjytech]

Almost sounds like you are having the same problem I had a while back, no power and after 1/4 throttle or so the pedal was almost like it hit a wall, for me it turned out that my AFC foot wasn't moving at all. I just pulled the AFC foot out and have been running like that ever since, someday I imagine I'll fix my AFC but where my truck is now I like it better without it.

 

Also on a side not I just noticed the AFC definition in the forum software is off, AFC actually stands for aneroid fuel control. 

Edited July 13, 2014 by bjytech

[rdsutton]

Bjytech, thats exactly how it feels, thought I'd start with taken plate out, maybe I'll start with the foot. What are you runner for a charger? Thanks dave

Edited July 13, 2014 by rdsutton

[bjytech]

I've just got the stock hx35 in my truck right now, one day hopefully I can upgrade to a "stock appearing" 62mm turbo 

[rdsutton]

Found the fuel & boost. Took out the AFC foot, left the plate. Boost @start 10-15psi @ 1200-1300rpms. It'll go and smoke if heavy on the foot! Normal easy foot just a haze, like ISX drive by foot I guess. The egt's still want to climb Quick to 1200 but come right down. So the AFC foot & or spring were not working properly? May be bump timing up to18* to help with egt's? Truck still feels just a tad behind what it was with stock sticks & hx35 with timing @16.5*.

[ISX]

An easy way to check timing is to look at the tab in the little window.  Just find TDC (maybe the mark is still there from when you timed it before) and if you crank the engine clockwise from the front, the tab should come into view BEFORE the damper rolls past TDC because the tab is set at stock timing and you are at 16.5.  It's just a quick way to confirm it.  If it comes into the window at TDC then you know its at stock timing, and if its after, then you know it's more retarded.  If the timing is retarded then it will start up instantly.  At 16.5 I wouldn't think it would be that instant.  

 

Basically if you put the tab in the window and subtract the sticker timing (12-14* on most engines, yours prolly says 14*), then you can figure out your timing within 2*.  Its accurate enough to see if you are way off or not. 

[rdsutton]

Thanks ISX, I can still see the TDC and 14,16,18 marks on balancer. That's on the list for tomorrow. How about the AFC, with the foot out , runs good, but any hard acceleration and I'm dumpen fuel, pushed EGT's, and PISSEN off the driver in right lane & behind me when smoke clears. LOL. They don't haha! I'm thinken a softer spring to get the AFC back on and the foot moven on 35-40 boost? Know where to find one? Would realy like to get this dialed in so I can tow with it! With foot out its WAY to easy to to go past 1300*, I'd think towing would make it worse?

ISX, just curious about how Dodge matched stock injectors with stock turbo? 12v injectors with Hx35, did the mechanical engineers have a table, formula, or just plain old trigonometry and basic math to match X amount of fuel with Y amount of air on a given engine displacement @ a given RPM? I have heard of a fuel air curve but have yet to find it on a web search? Just sayen, if stock set up, fuel/air ratio were graphed on an X/Y axis, would it not be a WHOLE lot easier to explain @ say 10% above STOCK fuel/ air ratio one needs to run X turbo and Y injectors? I've seen turbo mapping and understand turbos peak efficiency lies in the calculated area! Is there injector mapping? I had this on the brain thought I'd ask! Thanks Dave haha!

[ISX]

Thanks ISX, I can still see the TDC and 14,16,18 marks on balancer. That's on the list for tomorrow. How about the AFC, with the foot out , runs good, but any hard acceleration and I'm dumpen fuel, pushed EGT's, and PISSEN off the driver in right lane & behind me when smoke clears. LOL. They don't haha! I'm thinken a softer spring to get the AFC back on and the foot moven on 35-40 boost? Know where to find one? Would realy like to get this dialed in so I can tow with it! With foot out its WAY to easy to to go past 1300*, I'd think towing would make it worse?

ISX, just curious about how Dodge matched stock injectors with stock turbo? 12v injectors with Hx35, did the mechanical engineers have a table, formula, or just plain old trigonometry and basic math to match X amount of fuel with Y amount of air on a given engine displacement @ a given RPM? I have heard of a fuel air curve but have yet to find it on a web search? Just sayen, if stock set up, fuel/air ratio were graphed on an X/Y axis, would it not be a WHOLE lot easier to explain @ say 10% above STOCK fuel/ air ratio one needs to run X turbo and Y injectors? I've seen turbo mapping and understand turbos peak efficiency lies in the calculated area! Is there injector mapping? I had this on the brain thought I'd ask! Thanks Dave haha!

 

Adjusting the starwheel and the screw in the back of the AFC adjusts the spring tension, so those would need adjustment.  The entire contraption between the fueling arm, governor, AFC, Fuel plate, is all a very finely tuned instrument that takes a long time to set up, and then it isn't always perfect for every situation.  Hence why I just got rid of it.  

 

They have actually had that calculated out longgg before the 12 valves made it into our trucks.  They even mention common rail stuff back then, problem was just not having accurate enough machines to produce it full scale.  The air/fuel ratio needs to be in the 18-24 range.  The higher the ratio, the better the fuel economy.  But it is exponential.  Meaning after 40:1ish, you are building a lot of boost for little enhancement.  I think the tests they did were using an outside source of boost so it didn't take the power to build that insane amount of boost into consideration, it was purely for understanding.  

[rdsutton]

WELL, ISX glad you mentioned the timing ck tip. Bought a mirror, Ha ha According to my balancer TDC mark, WHICH should line up on L side of speed sensor!, I found the injector pmp timing pin, put the the notched hold pin in, rechecked TDC, IT slipped, eyeballed it looks retarded 2-4*!! Now to time it. TDC MARK spot on with #1 valves. So I know balancer timing marks 14, 16, 18*, are good. Mind refreshing my memory! Questions: #1. Keep injector pmp pined and HOLD barring tool when I break pmp gear loose? #2. What is the best cleaner to use on pmp shaft? #3. How do you clean shaft behind gear, good enough through that timing gear cover, oil fill hole with gear still on shaft and nut OFF? #4. What size socket for pmp shaft nut, 1-3/16 is a tat loose, mm size? Thanks & If I've left anything out, or you have some advice pleas feel free, very open to all suggestions! Retiming should help my current set up to run a lot better?

Edited July 15, 2014 by rdsutton

[bjytech]

I've never timed a pump like you are doing it so I cant really help with #1 but for #2 I use brakleen and #3 I put the bolt nearest the top for the puller in the gear and lift the gear up off the shaft and spray it good, I've done it like this a few times and never had the timing slip.