VP44 PSG fuel cooler ideas

[KATOOM]

those transistors look like they are being thermally disentegrated and failing. possibly incorrect load handling rating for the stock ones?

 

I agree.  When you see a picture of a failed transistor, its clear that it got too hot and everything else in there looks normal.

[CUMMINSDIESELPWR]

those transistors can get obviously so hot that they desolder the connections on their own with how they are arranged (wire soldered directly to face of thermal load) the replacement wont do that as easily as they are tapped with a prong and the thermal load will transmit through the backside into the housing.

[Mopar1973Man]

Whoa...

 

Time to think again why is someone like me getting such a good run out of my VP44? No transistor issues, on overheating issues, no P0168 codes, etc. Once again consider the thought there are people that can get long life from a VP44 without a bunch of modifications or alterations to the VP44. Time to figure out how I'm doing it. I'm wired tapped running a Edge Comp on level 5, don't exactly grandpa the truck around some days I play and other days I'm conservative. I see up to 115*F for summer temps and then swing as cold as -25*F for the winter time. So why can I go so far without any issues?

[snowshoveler]

Michael...you spent a bit of time making sure you had no AC voltage messing up your truck.

I think this is key to keeping the VP alive and well.

Chris

[rancherman]

are the  'replacement'   computers/ pumps  giving  more  service than the   originals?      Mikes  was  replaced at  ~50k, (correct?)   I  did  ours  at 175k,    others  seem to   range  anywhere  from  low  100's  to  high 100k's..

BUT....  how  about  AFTER  that??       are the  replacements  going  at least as far?     I  can  claim   20k  on  my  rebuilt with NEW  computer...  so I can't say yet!   I'll need  about  6-7 years  to  rack up  the miles.     Most  vendors  won't  warrantee a pump unless a  fueling  upgrade is also installed.. so  that  'experiment'    may be skewed  right off the bat.

 

Maybe  the  supplied  transistors  for  the original  production  run  were   a  dud  ..  prone to  self  destruction..     I can only speculate the  new units  being  installed on rebuilt  pumps  today   may  have  be  'upgraded'  to  a  higher quality  part?      Or at least built by a different  vendor..  or  supplied with components  built  from  a  completely different  vendor..     I'd  be  surprised if  Bosch builds  these  in house.  Probably went to low bidder. 

 

Edit..

Mike,  forgive me,  looking back,  I might of   seen  something you replaced at  ~ 45-50 k...  I might of  jumped the gun and  thought it was your VP...  maybe it was only the  lift pump...  sorry

Edited August 17, 2014 by rancherman

[rancherman]

So, in  terms of  electronics...  does  a component    'take a beating'  day by day, little by little...  and  finally   desolders?     I'd  like to think a  'desoldering'  would  be  an instantaneous  type action... not a   eroding type. 

 

or  is  it  more  probable  to  something going  apeshit...  all at once?   more like  a fuse blowing?   

such as  a  transistor   finally  succumbing to   vibration, heat,  and then   internally   shorts... causing  a  spike  of heat which  melts the  attaching point??   

 

 

I'm only  throwing  all these   out there... because  until  the  problem  is   accurately  identified  and  its  CAUSE..  a  CURE can't  be  prescribed.

Edited August 17, 2014 by rancherman

[CUMMINSDIESELPWR]

i had to replace my vp around 170k iirc. good cold start but no hot start

[Mopar1973Man]

i had to replace my vp around 170k iirc. good cold start but no hot start

 

Quick question what's your cranking fuel  pressure?

[KATOOM]

Mike I think you're right but also potentially overlooking that just because yours is still going strong doesnt mean all remanufactued VP's are or will go on for hundreds of thousands of miles without a hiccup.

 

We "think" the electronic problem is a result of heat.  But from where?????  Heat from running, heat from shut down heat soak, heat from ULSD, heat from AC interference, or heat from amperage loads for some unknown reason?

 

That said, I fully agree that plenty of running fuel pressure is critical and having very low to no cranking fuel pressure is best.  I also believe that running an additive like 2-stroke oil in the fuel helps keep water issues down and lubrication up.  Lastly, making sure you dont run the fuel tank levels too low in summer heat helps with overall fuel temps.

 

So.....whats left?  Well electronics are left and what can we do to help them?  Putting aside other electrical internal components like the solenoid, at this point it seems there's nothing we can do to help the PSG and really its seeming more clear that no one has a clue why or whats going on in there.

 

Is the problems pertaining to electrical resistance?  Is the transistor placed under a considerable load upon start up like some kind of capacitor?  We've been told for years that quality rebuilt VP's get brand new PSG's so there's no existing start cycle history but now I've learned thats not exactly true.  There are no new computers and all they do is check the computers for function and then re-flash them resetting the start cycle.  Thats unfortunate.....and for me, raises a whole bunch of other questions.  Like what the heck is the "start cycle" if they can simply remove it by re-flashing?  And as I've mentioned before, the PSG technology seems to be far more attentive in Europe where they have more vehicles which use those or have Bosch pumps.  I was even reading a British forum whereby someone had theirs fail on something like a BMW and a shop came out and changed the computer.....not the whole injection pump.

 

So is this another transition in our learning curve?  Are we to eventually gain a new understanding of what the VP really needs now that the mechanical side has been resolved?  Is America just behind the boat simply because technology is now in common rail and who cares about the ol' VP anyways.....

Edited August 17, 2014 by KATOOM

[Mopar1973Man]

We've been told for years that quality rebuilt VP's get brand new PSG's so there's no existing start cycle history but now I've learned thats not exactly true.

 

Well I know the VP44's from DAP or Vulcan Performance are both sold with NEW PSG unit on the VP44.

[snowshoveler]

I have a new to me VP44 coming from DAP...I sure hope the PSG is new. The bragg sheet said it had a new one installed.

Won't get here for a week but I will try for a pic , maybe you can tell if its new then. 

Regards Chris

[KATOOM]

Well I know the VP44's from DAP or Vulcan Performance are both sold with NEW PSG unit on the VP44.

 

I dont know about that Mike.  Thats what I was talking about too.....  Over the years we've been told that the rebuilt VP's have "NEW" computers.  Even when I purchased my Blue Chip VP I was told that they only use new computers.  But if you look at the updated BC website you'll see that they only use new PSG's on their outrageously priced VP's and re-flash the others on the less costly units.  There's even other venders now disclosing they dont use new but re-flashed PSG's.  Jasper, Thoroughbred, Bluechip.....to list a few.  As I also mentioned, there's some way to verify the bar code on the PSG which tells a story we "non-re-builders" arent privy too since there's very little information regarding what those codes mean.  Anyone know?????

 

Dont misunderstand my stance here.....  I'm not down on all VP suppliers or re-builders either but just that I think the wording used over the years has not been as "honest" as we think whereby the term "new" isnt necessarily "new" like you and I think but rather just new in the sense that its been tested, verified, and re-flashed so there's no history.  If Bosch isnt building any new VP housings then what makes anyone think they're making, or still having made, new PSG's?  That said, there's still the differences between the PSG-16 and PSG-5.  If "new" PSG's are being made by some unknown supplier then why all the euro injection pump companies talking about the VP30-VP44 "repaired" PSG's?  You'd think they would just toss the old and install new instead of diving into de-gooping and re-soldering them.

 

Then to add more confusion to this, from what could find out the PSG code ending in 027 is for the 98.5 to '02 SO trucks.  The 028 code is for the '01 '02 HO trucks, and the 029 is supposedly the Fed Ex pump which is also supposedly found in RV's and other commercial rigs.  Lastly the 030 is supposed to be the latest and best PSG.

Edited August 17, 2014 by KATOOM

[KATOOM]

In saying all that.....  There's no way to verify whether or not your PSG is truly a BRAND NEW unit since we dont know what to look for and if you touch the PSG cover bolts, you void the warranty.

[Mopar1973Man]

Bingo! Now you know why I started looking for who re-manufactures and who doesn't. Then you can interview the companies one at a time and see who is replacing and who is re-using PSG units. As far as I know Blue Chip is not a rebuilder someone else rebuilds his pumps and unknown who. I know that both DAP and Vulcan Performance both come from Industrial Injection which is a VP44 rebuilder with a Bosch 815 test stand for calibration.

[KATOOM]

You're correct Mike.  Blue Chip does not rebuild their own pumps but has a supplier.  Back in '09 when I replaced my VP I dont recall there being too many Bosch certified rebuilders around.  Maybe its become more common, even though the test bench is around $250k.

 

I dont know what to say.  I'm just as confused as ever and will continue to research this topic because I find it interesting.  One thing I'm really curious to know is.....where are all these "new" PSG's coming from?  Who builds them?  With all these vendors claiming new PSG's, there has to be a supplier pumping them out regularly.

 

And really is the PSG as a whole package the problem or is there something in conjunction with the hall sensor, transistor, or the ribbon wire alone?

 

I even found an Australian company who claims quality VP rebuilds with new PSG's and.....offers a TWO YEAR warranty.  I dont think I've seen any US company offer that.

[rancherman]

[Yankneck696]

I wish I had the solder reflow machine I helped build in the 80s. It used 2.9 KW of RF energy at 27.2Mhz to melt the solder. I would be able to reflow the entire board. That would only help if it could be disconnected from the ribbon cable, though, as the Hall sensor must stay in place for proper alignment.

Ed

[rancherman]

I have a new to me VP44 coming from DAP...I sure hope the PSG is new. The bragg sheet said it had a new one installed.

Won't get here for a week but I will try for a pic , maybe you can tell if its new then. 

Regards Chris

I got  mine from  there too... about a year ago.      Folks on the phone   assured me it was  100% new (PSG)       visually,    the  'plug in'  was  still virgin..

[snowshoveler]

Rancherman...How is the "new" pump working.

Chris

[CUMMINSDIESELPWR]

Quick question what's your cranking fuel  pressure?

 

when the pump went out, i didnt even know about this site and it had no gauges to determine. it had the stock POS LP on it so im sure it was low.