Replaced water pump, now no start

[ronman]

Truck is an '00 2wd auto with 229k, I just drove it this afternoon to go pick up a replacement water pump because I noticed water leaking out the pee hole this morning. Got home, shut it off, and let it cool for a while, then pulled the old WP off and used the water hose to flush the radiator and the block. 

Got everything buttoned back up, put the belt on, filled it up and hit the key, and it turned part of a revolution then stopped. Hit the key again, and the same thing happened, but this time the check gages light/tone came on, because one of my batteries is weak and it doesn't like cold cranking. So before I drag the jump box out, I think to check if the water pump is turning, so I pop the belt off and give it a spin. It's fine, so I put the belt back on and try again. Same thing, spins probably 1/4 revolution then quits. 

This time I break out a 7/8" socket and try to turn the alternator. It'll turn counter-clockwise, but clockwise just slips the pulley on the belt. So thinking maybe somehow it's gotten itself hydrolocked (which would make zero sense to me, but hey, who knows,) I crack a few injectors to see if it makes a difference. 

It does not.

So, now I'm inside searching forums and posting this, while the truck sits on 20A charge.

 

Any help is greatly appreciated!!

 

edit: everything electrical seems to be working - all lights/etc work fine. Bumping the key does not run the FASS, though, just shakes the truck as it tries to crank the motor over but encounters resistance. 

Edited February 20, 2015 by ronman

[ronman]

OK, after hooking it up to the jump box for a half hour, and opening 4 of the 6 injectors, it finally cranked over and started up. Now, though, I've got a new problem: the radiator is full of oil, but the dipstick is nice and black. I let it idle for about 15 minutes with the radiator cap open, then closed it and let it idle for another 15 minutes or so. I shut it down because I wasn't getting any heat in the cab even though the temp was sitting in the bottom end of the "normal" range. The radiator cap was cool and the upper rad hose was not hard, so I popped the cap to the first position and noticed some black gold puking out... I'm going to dump the oil and pull the lower rad hose. It's not smoking and it started right up when I shut it off the first time, so I'm hoping it's just the oil cooler... 

[joecool911]

Wow man, the water pump on these is about as simple as it gets to change. Can't imagine what's wrong. Hope you get some help here soon! Not that many places water and oil can mix, but most of them are serious.

[ronman]

Yeah, exactly... I just towed 8K almost 700 miles last weekend and everything was just fine. It started up just fine this morning when I noticed the water pump leaking, too. I'm really hoping it's the oil cooler (not that $350 for a replacement is desirable, but it beats a gasket set and a set of ARP studs. :/

[Mopar1973Man]

Sounds like a head gasket failure. So far in all the years I've never seen a oil cooler failure yet.

[joecool911]

Sounds like a head gasket failure. So far in all the years I've never seen a oil cooler failure yet.

Maybe if he donates enough you'll give him a better answer

[ronman]

Sounds like a head gasket failure. So far in all the years I've never seen a oil cooler failure yet.

But what the hell would have caused the HG to fail on a bone-stock truck? And if the HG was blown, wouldn't you expect it to go both ways, i.e. water in the oil as well as oil in the radiator?

[Mopar1973Man]

Typically oil pressure is higher pressure than coolant pressure so oil typically goes to the water side. Coolant could be a cause as it ages it becomes corrosive and eats at thing like head gaskets makes them weak.

[ronman]

Hmm. 

[Dieselfuture]

Typically oil pressure is higher pressure than coolant pressure so oil typically goes to the water side. Coolant could be a cause as it ages it becomes corrosive and eats at thing like head gaskets makes them weak.

How about when you shut the truck off, shouldn't pressure from coolant work it's way into oil

Typically oil pressure is higher pressure than coolant pressure so oil typically goes to the water side. Coolant could be a cause as it ages it becomes corrosive and eats at thing like head gaskets makes them weak.

[Dieselfuture]

The way you're saying that it wouldn't start and felt like it was hydro locked, Maybe you blew HG last time towing and somehow it put pressure to coolant and made water pump leak, in mean time while changing your water pump coolant leaked in to cylinder and made it hard to start, and when you cracked injection lines somehow coolant got squeezed back through the injector and let the motor spin free. If that's the case you should be seeing white smoke from exhaust and should be hydro locking again. I hope I'm wrong and half of what I said isn't possible. JTOL

[Mopar1973Man]

How about when you shut the truck off, shouldn't pressure from coolant work it's way into oil

 

If there is any coolant pressure. If the engine was still cold then most likely not.

[rancherman]

_{Couple things.}

 

_{Coolant leak.    He  said  he  'just noticed' it that day.       Did  truck ever get hot  in the days  leading up?     What kind of shape  was  the impellor and  bearing?}

_{And  the   hydro lock.   Ever  figure out  what  was  in  the cylinder...   coolant or  engine oil?}    

[ronman]

Old WP impeller was in fine shape, the bearing was crunchy though. The hottest the truck has ever gotten was about 220 when the radiator got clogged about 4 years ago before I learned about the puke bottle...

 

Never figured out what was causing it to lock, once I put more juice to the starter it turned over. I definitely have a questionable battery, on the pass. side,

[rancherman]

when it  did   fire up after being locked..   it  should've  been a smoky  old  dog  for  a  little bit.   Was it?       At least  a  pretty good  puff puff puff..   until that  cylinder  dried up.   Either  oil or  coolant would've  done it.

Just trying to  eliminate  if it's  battery only.. 

did you power wash off the engine  before this   fix?    Did you have the  intake pipe off?

[Mopar1973Man]

Any knocking? Like I was talking to my Boss yesterday and he hydro-locked his wife's car and bent the connecting rod and makes a horrid banging noise when it runs.

[ronman]

No knocking, no smoke, nothing out of the ordinary. That's what has me confused...

[Mopar1973Man]

No knocking, no smoke, nothing out of the ordinary. That's what has me confused...

 

Well the next best thing to do is get a compression tester and do a compression test and then do a leak down test. This would verify the head gasket by pressurizing the cylinder and the bad cylinder would blow bubbles in the radiator. Compression test would be lower on the bad cylinder.

[IBMobile]

I think you may have 2 problems going on.

 

 Fix what you know is wrong first, the starting. You know you have a weak /bad battery, replace them both. If you replace just one, the old one left in the truck will pull the new on down. 

 

When a head gasket leaks oil in to the coolant it looks like a chocolate milkshake, a light brown/tan color. If the engine was hydro locked you would have to take the injectors out so that the coolant/oil would have some place to go when you spin the crankshaft.and when you do spin it over the mix comes shooting out the injector holes. When it starts the exhaust would be full of coolant/oil and be smoking for a while. The oil in coolant my be from flushing it and/or the heater core plugged up?

 

Head gaskets do "rot" out due to electrolysis and is a function of time, materiel, and coolant condition. This type of leak starts out slowly with coolant lose and is noticed before there is a catastrophic failure of the head gasket.

[ronman]

I pulled everything off today (valve cover, exhaust manifold/turbo, intake elbow, fuel lines) and there's definitely been some water in the valvetrain. There was a great deal of condensation on the underside of the VC and several spots of surface rust forming on the rockers. I also found a pretty significant oil spot at the head/block interface at the back of the head on the exhaust side. 

 

I drained the oil and it was a uniform black, and didn't feel compromised/emulsified at all. I'm ready to pull the head Thursday when I can get the loader to push it into the garage so I can use the crane, unless you've got better ideas. 

 

The heater core was replaced about 8 months ago (along with the evaporator while I was in there.) 

 

What do I have to do to remove the injectors? I don't have Cummins Tool No. 2193493247...

 

Regarding the batteries, I haven't had to boost it except the other day; the starter has more than enough amps to spin the engine over fast enough to crank. The fact that I cannot turn the engine using a 3' breaker bar on the alternator bolt (again, the belt just slips on the pulley if I turn it CW, but it turns CCW.) I'll replace the p/s battery when it's absolutely necessary, for now it'll be OK. 

Edited February 23, 2015 by ronman