Advanced timing with Blue Chip Special X VP44

[Mopar1973Man]

http://www.bluechipdiesel.com/vp44diagnostichelp.html
 

 

Recently, as of 2014, we have been convinced that this sensor DOES effect drivability and performance. We got this information from callers that have learned otherwise from a smart guy on the internet, who's website is www.mopar1973man.com. Since he has it all documented and explained, we recommend using him and his website for enlightenment, and do not want to exploit or duplicate his good work!

 

AFTER CHECKING FOR "AIR IN THE FUEL " DURING OBSERVATION OF THIS SYMPTOM, it may be due to an out of range or improper signal voltage from the IAT Sensor getting to the ECM.

We feel morally obligated to give credit where credit is due for this one, so we are referring people with this symptom to www.mopar1973man.com, as he has done the homework for this symptom.

 

 

[diesel4life]

Very nice!

There is ALOT of updated info on that home page from the last time I was on there. Good on them for giving credit where credit is due.

[Greenlee]

Yes please post them up. I dont see them anywhere.

Also, are you sure your talking to Chip? Chip has been retired for some time now and turned the business over to Doug, although it is possible he's still involved.

When you go to Blue Chip Diesel home page on the left side of the page select option VP44 Diagnostic Help:

HOW TO DIAGNOSE VP44 FUEL SYSTEM ISSUES

It will say Print at the top of the page, put your cursor on the article and do a Ctrl + F and at the bottom of the page it will give you a search box, write what you want to find like "mopar" hit enter. It will show you two places where mopar is located. Click on Highlight all places, start scrolling down till you see it.

 

We didn't used to consider the IAT or Intake Air Temperature sensor as a relevant part of the VP44 fuel system, as we thought it only told the ECM whether or not to turn on the intake heating ribbons, for a cold start. Recently, as of 2014, we have been convinced that this sensor DOES effect drivability and performance. We got this information from callers that have learned otherwise from a smart guy on the internet, who's website is www.mopar1973man.com. Since he has it all documented and explained, we recommend using him and his website for enlightenment, and do not want to exploit or duplicate his good work!

 

The next insert is almost at the bottom of the page

 

ENGINE "SURGES" UNDER LIGHT OR

HARD LOAD

AFTER CHECKING FOR "AIR IN THE FUEL " DURING OBSERVATION OF THIS SYMPTOM, it may be due to an out of range or improper signal voltage from the IAT Sensor getting to the ECM.

We feel morally obligated to give credit where credit is due for this one, so we are referring people with this symptom to www.mopar1973man.com, as he has done the homework for this symptom.

:It was Chip I was talking to. When you call the main number wait until prompted to select "8" option. It will take you to Chip if he is taking calls. He does answer and will tell you to call around 10:00 am.      Hope this helps. It's good to see some positive recognition especially from Chip who I think was impressed. He should check our Forum more often for information he can share on his site lol.

Anybody think a fuel box of some sort will help me with the injector smoke problem? Thank you

[flagmanruss]

Well, now, it is true that my IAT fooler changes the mix & I normally flip the FOOLER OFF for cold starts & then switch it ON (warm engine setting) once the engine is running.  Whether running a IAT fooler or not, a FAULT will affect the VP44.  It is, after all, a computerized Injection Pump.  I suppose any errorious readings could result in strange happenings.   

It is nice to see Mike getting the well deserved recognition for his contributions.

 

Any codes?

[Greenlee]

 

http://www.bluechipdiesel.com/vp44diagnostichelp.html  TWO points of recognition for Mopar Man.

 

 

 

Wow, I need to get my quotes and letter size matched up, I look like a first grader who can't color in the lines. How does the multiquote work?

[Greenlee]

I don't have the Forum skills to try and answer several quotes at one time. The light is coming on with me and this pump. With all of you adding a little at a time I understand more than I did when I posted the original thread. What  Michael said about the boxes in addition to FlagmanRuss and the timing has me thinking. Chip wants to make sure that his Special X is not considered a Hot Rod Pump. The Special X does have a crackle to it with the timing advanced from the get go, it's like using a degree wheel and changing the timing in relation between the crank and distributor, the crank is moved retard or advance the timing, the distributor stays in the same location. At an idle I am already advanced and the pump must continue to advance as the RPMs increase because it's all done mechanically and not with the electronics of the ECM. I am thinking it can only go to a max setting no matter how slow or fast it is driven. The fuel part was and is a little more complicated to me. Somehow the injectors must indicate to the pump because of volume that it needs more fuel to reach the point of popping off and feeding the next one in turn. So the ECM is not in sync with a calibrated amount of fuel needed to satisfy a stock injector. Maybe it is over fueling. I'm just guessing on this. I have read the majority of what Chip has for information on the VP44 but I need to go back and take my time reading it again. When you all say stacking the boxes does it have a plug that is male and female or is there an adapter plug that is used to attach more than one device to the OBD-II? You are right about Chip being retired and selling to Doug but he gets on the phone with anyone who calls and selects option number 8, it goes straight to him. I don't know Doug. I appreciate everyone that has replied trying to help me with this. I hope this post will go to the right location since I didn't select a Quote to start with.

Edited May 8, 2015 by SLT5Spd99

[TFaoro]

I don't have the Forum skills to try and answer several quotes at one time. The light is coming on with me and this pump. With all of you adding a little at a time I understand more than I did when I posted the original thread. What  Michael said about the boxes in addition to FlagmanRuss and the timing has me thinking. Chip wants to make sure that his Special X is not considered a Hot Rod Pump. The Special X does have a crackle to it with the timing advanced from the get go, it's like using a degree wheel and changing the timing in relation between the crank and distributor, the crank is moved retard or advance the timing, the distributor stays in the same location. At an idle I am already advanced and the pump must continue to advance as the RPMs increase because it's all done mechanically and not with the electronics of the ECM. I am thinking it can only go to a max setting no matter how slow or fast it is driven. The fuel part was and is a little more complicated to me. Somehow the injectors must indicate to the pump because of volume that it needs more fuel to reach the point of popping off and feeding the next one in turn. So the ECM is not in sync with a calibrated amount of fuel needed to satisfy a stock injector. Maybe it is over fueling. I'm just guessing on this. I have read the majority of what Chip has for information on the VP44 but I need to go back and take my time reading it again. When you all say stacking the boxes does it have a plug that is male and female or is there an adapter plug that is used to attach more than one device to the OBD-II? You are right about Chip being retired and selling to Doug but he gets on the phone with anyone who calls and selects option number 8, it goes straight to him. I don't know Doug. I appreciate everyone that has replied trying to help me with this. I hope this post will go to the right location since I didn't select a Quote to start with.

You're getting close, but the timing is electronically controlled by the ecm. I have no idea how he mechanically advanced it, but i'm sure there's a way.

[Greenlee]

You're getting close, but the timing is electronically controlled by the ecm. I have no idea how he mechanically advanced it, but i'm sure there's a way.

Thank you for that information, I guess when Blue Chip states mechanical advance that's just what it means, somehow mechanically the timing is advanced from standard settings to this new setting and then the ECM takes over on the additional timing and needed fuel amounts. Does this mean that Blue Chip uses a different computer program on their ECMs used on VP44s?

[flagmanruss]

Just to be clear, theres the computer built into the VP44 and there's the ECM (Engine Control Module).  There's nothing to indicate that the Special X modifies either the VP44 or ECM software (unless you're running an additional box or programer).  I believe the changes are strictly mechanical.   

Again, my impression is the total advance is controled by the structural limits of the VP44 housing...  whether electrically controlled or mechanically.   But doing so mechanically begins the advance as soon as it starts. 

Remember the VP44 (as issued) is a smog control Injection Pump!  To reduce smog, timing is normally retarded.  What a tuner or programer (or in this case a modified IP) does is advance the timing, which gives slightly more power than stock.  I can test this my swiching my XZT between OFF (stock) & Econo modes (+15 hp).  The +30 mode adds fuel sooner although within the max fuel rating of the stock VP44.

Edited May 8, 2015 by flagmanruss

[Mopar1973Man]

Like Quadzilla already said in my quote above is that the stock VP44 without modification can reach full advancement without any modules or programming. So this just means when timing is given. Since mechanical advancement is going to static like twisting and setting a distributor or the Special X VP44 vs. programming which is going dynamically alter the curve and when max timing is given. Like Russ Quadzilla XLT.

[flagmanruss]

Good, we're getting some clarity now.  Next question is the interaction of the crank position indicator with the injection signal. 

[Mopar1973Man]

That's should be on the tone wheel inside the VP44.

 

 

I'm going to assume the trigger is the wide spots in the tone wheel. Since the cam ring and the pickup swivel advance or retard as commanded. Then the pickup would sense the wide spots for firing the fuel.

[Greenlee]

Just to be clear, theres the computer built into the VP44 and there's the ECM (Engine Control Module).  There's nothing to indicate that the Special X modifies either the VP44 or ECM software (unless you're running an additional box or programer).  I believe the changes are strictly mechanical.   

Again, my impression is the total advance is controled by the structural limits of the VP44 housing...  whether electrically controlled or mechanically.   But doing so mechanically begins the advance as soon as it starts. 

Remember the VP44 (as issued) is a smog control Injection Pump!  To reduce smog, timing is normally retarded.  What a tuner or programer (or in this case a modified IP) does is advance the timing, which gives slightly more power than stock.  I can test this my swiching my XZT between OFF (stock) & Econo modes (+15 hp).  The +30 mode adds fuel sooner although within the max fuel rating of the stock VP44.

Thanks for explaining this, I didn't know the VP44 had built in software or it's own computer separate from the ECM. Do you think with the 75 hp injectors I selected has thrown off the calibration of the software controlling fuel delivery? What would clean up the smoke other than reducing fuel, more turbo or air intake?

[Greenlee]

That's should be on the tone wheel inside the VP44.

 

DSCF6108.JPG

 

I'm going to assume the trigger is the wide spots in the tone wheel. Since the cam ring and the pickup swivel advance or retard as commanded. Then the pickup would sense the wide spots for firing the fuel.

I see the front of the pump by locating the key on the shaft. Don't have a clue on the rest of it but it is a great picture. It will help with educating me on the function of a injector pump the more I study what's going on and the function of the pump

Edited May 8, 2015 by SLT5Spd99

[flagmanruss]

Whoa!  I think you made a typo. 

"Lift Pump" refers to to "fuel pump" originally mounted on the block...  often replaced with improved lift pumps between the tank & the engine (or less well withthe Dodge fix of an intank pump). 

The VP44 is correctly called an injection pump.  The tone wheel is a part inside of the VP44 IP.  The parts of the injection pump are interesting but out of sight as Injection Pumps should not be disassembled in the field & require an expensive test bench to calibrate on reassembly. 

 

Mike has a junk pump disassembled for educational purposes... 

[Greenlee]

Whoa!  I think you made a typo. 

"Lift Pump" refers to to "fuel pump" originally mounted on the block...  often replaced with improved lift pumps between the tank & the engine (or less well withthe Dodge fix of an intank pump). 

The VP44 is correctly called an injection pump.  The tone wheel is a part inside of the VP44 IP.  The parts of the injection pump are interesting but out of sight as Injection Pumps should not be disassembled in the field & require an expensive test bench to calibrate on reassembly. 

 

Mike has a junk pump disassembled for educational purposes... 

Yep, I corrected my sentence, I should time out for a while to determine if I am retarded or advanced lol. I appreciate all the input on this from everybody. I am trying to compare the TST Fuel Box with the Blue Chip Fuel Management Box. The TST is much less in price but which one works the best for fuel management in my situation. I don't think timing will change the smoke issue but fuel management should. I don't want to this to turn into a bottomless pit in case I need to change over to an automatic. I still need to set up gauges and an air intake after we solve the black smoke rolling out. I am waiting on a set of connector tubes before I have my son install the reconditioned new injectors. How do you take a injector and tune it down a notch?

 

That's pretty cool having a used pump laying around to look and learn the function of. It won't be long until you all put your heads together and develop a superior injection pump.

Edited May 8, 2015 by SLT5Spd99

[Mopar1973Man]

Thanks for explaining this, I didn't know the VP44 had built in software or it's own computer separate from the ECM. Do you think with the 75 hp injectors I selected has thrown off the calibration of the software controlling fuel delivery? What would clean up the smoke other than reducing fuel, more turbo or air intake?

 

You need a quicker spooling turbo to clean up the smoke. But ultimately I would say a fuelling module like Edge Comp or Edge Juice but I can't. Reason being you can set the defuel mode to compensate for over fuelling vs boost to clean up the smoke. So like my setup I'm set for 5x3 (120 HP but only 67% of stock fuel till 10 PSI of boost). This allows me much great control over the fuel vs a Special X pump that is all fixed permanently and doesn't play well with electronics.

 

The PSG (module on top of the VP44) requires 3 hours time on the Bosch 815 test stand to be calibrate properly. During the testing every thing is test and calibrated then the PSG is flashed with its own software when it passes all testing. So the Bosch VP44 is a stand-alone fuel pump. What I mean you can supply +12V power and ground and the truck will start and idle. The rest of the functions like timing and fuel management is controlled by the ECM.

 

 

But the ECM is also a weak link in the whole performance design. You have to remember the ECM is only got software for stock fuel injectors and stock boost levels. So beyond that you when you reach beyond 20 PSI boost the software goes flat or defuel mode because you exceed the limits of the ECM. This is where a module like Edge or Quadzilla build the power. They can listen to the CANBUS and realize the ECM is at its limit and then take over and add more fuel and timing by the way of the wire tap on the injection pump. This way the module can command the pulse to start earlier and hold it holder making a timing advancement again and mode fuel being pumped. But again there is limits to how far you can go. If go out of range the VP44 will give the dead pedal feel and ignore the commanded fuel.

 

I see the front of the pump by locating the key on the shaft. Don't have a clue on the rest of it but it is a great picture. It will help with educating me on the function of a injector pump the more I study what's going on and the function of the pump

 

More exploded view pictures here.

http://articles.mopar1973man.com/2nd-generation-24v-dodge-cummins/25-fuel-system/437-bosch-vp44-injection-pump-exploded-view

 

Let me know if you want any pictures of any parts I've got much much more. Also I still got the VP44 here to rip apart if needed. Basically the VP44 only has 2 electric solenoids.

1. Fuel Pin Solenoid
2. Timing Advancement Solenoid

The only other electronic function is the pickup sensor which is for firing the fuel solenoid, also seeing if the commanded timing occurred or not (P0216 code), fuel temperature sensor which also controls timing. Colder the fuel temp more advanced timing is given. Like some poor soul reported to me that he will no longer mount a fan or heat sink to the VP44. What happens is you super cool the VP44 too much it will actual advance timing so far that when you go to restart the engine it will start and run BACKWARDS! This is very damaging....

 

Inside the PSG unit...

[Greenlee]

You need a quicker spooling turbo to clean up the smoke. But ultimately I would say a fuelling module like Edge Comp or Edge Juice but I can't. Reason being you can set the defuel mode to compensate for over fuelling vs boost to clean up the smoke. So like my setup I'm set for 5x3 (120 HP but only 67% of stock fuel till 10 PSI of boost). This allows me much great control over the fuel vs a Special X pump that is all fixed permanently and doesn't play well with electronics.

 

The PSG (module on top of the VP44) requires 3 hours time on the Bosch 815 test stand to be calibrate properly. During the testing every thing is test and calibrated then the PSG is flashed with its own software when it passes all testing. So the Bosch VP44 is a stand-alone fuel pump. What I mean you can supply +12V power and ground and the truck will start and idle. The rest of the functions like timing and fuel management is controlled by the ECM.

 

 

But the ECM is also a weak link in the whole performance design. You have to remember the ECM is only got software for stock fuel injectors and stock boost levels. So beyond that you when you reach beyond 20 PSI boost the software goes flat or defuel mode because you exceed the limits of the ECM. This is where a module like Edge or Quadzilla build the power. They can listen to the CANBUS and realize the ECM is at its limit and then take over and add more fuel and timing by the way of the wire tap on the injection pump. This way the module can command the pulse to start earlier and hold it holder making a timing advancement again and mode fuel being pumped. But again there is limits to how far you can go. If go out of range the VP44 will give the dead pedal feel and ignore the commanded fuel.

 

 

More exploded view pictures here.

http://articles.mopar1973man.com/2nd-generation-24v-dodge-cummins/25-fuel-system/437-bosch-vp44-injection-pump-exploded-view

 

Let me know if you want any pictures of any parts I've got much much more. Also I still got the VP44 here to rip apart if needed. Basically the VP44 only has 2 electric solenoids.

1. Fuel Pin Solenoid
2. Timing Advancement Solenoid

The only other electronic function is the pickup sensor which is for firing the fuel solenoid, also seeing if the commanded timing occurred or not (P0216 code), fuel temperature sensor which also controls timing. Colder the fuel temp more advanced timing is given. Like some poor soul reported to me that he will no longer mount a fan or heat sink to the VP44. What happens is you super cool the VP44 too much it will actual advance timing so far that when you go to restart the engine it will start and run BACKWARDS! This is very damaging....

 

Inside the PSG unit...

DSCF6129.JPG

WOW! short but good video Michael. I have to step out for a little so it might be tomorrow before I can give a full reply, I'll edit this out. Yes, I'll take any pictures you want to share. The exploded diagram of the VP44 pump and all of the parts is great too. I still need to buy a 99 Cummings Factory Service Manual, is the one that Geno sells complete? I have a few Questions

[Mopar1973Man]

You might want to check the download area...

http://forum.mopar1973man.com/index.php?/files/file/70-1999-dodge-ram-fsmzip/

 

I can share many photos I've got 193 MB worth of photos regarding the fuel system. So you'll have to specify a bit more...

[bjytech]

Just throwing this out there since I haven't seen any mention of it yet but have you tried the simple things like a new air filter or checking for boost leaks?