Hi all,

So I have a new Valair single disc clutch with all new components, and new OE hydros from Napa. I have about 1000 miles on the hydros and 550 on the clutch. Today I noticed that sometimes, as I'm slowly letting up on the clutch pedal, it feels like it is sticking or binding kind of. It is only minor and only when I let the pedal out very slowly, which I normally do, and even then its not all the time. Its like it will just kind of hang up slightly then let go and release more quickly than I want it to. I am sure the clutch and components are installed correctly as I and my dad did it together and we are both pretty competent in this area. We also had the help of a friend who is a lifelong mechanic.  I checked the FSM and didn't find too much except to grease the pedal pivot point. But in the case of binding, it says to replace the hydros. Since they are new maybe I could grease the pushrod? How would I do that? Just smear some synthetic grease on the pushrod and work it in and out? Has anyone else ever experienced this and or found a solution or have any other ideas?

Edited February 23, 20169 yr by leathermaneod

Fine with however you get it to work right and not slop around.  The side to side pressure on the master cylinder is nothing.

Oh ok. I just wasn't sure if it for some reason needed that little bit of space or give in there. I don't know why they wouldn't have just used a nylon spacer to begin with?

Just KATOOM missed one thing... I'm already using a Southbend Con OFE clutch. Still using the same old stock hydros no aftermarkets. No problems with engagements or leveraging the clutch. So I can understand getting a big dual disc racing clutch and having issues leverage the pressure plate. Most single disc clutches don't require aftermarket htydros. Tow, haul heavy loads, no issues at all. Bench bleeding is a snap. Still even with sealed unit I would still bench bleed again because of possible air issues or mishandling rare but does happen.

 

Mine has a washer and clip.  I thought I remember the washer being between the clip and the shaft.  And I "thought" those style of clips were something you could find at a hardware store like Ace.

As for the hydro's..... its actually the other way around.  The single disc clutches are the ones which have heavier pressure plates as generally the dual disk clutches get away with lighter pressure plates because they have more surface area.  Thats not me arguing either but merely pointing something out.....

Edited February 27, 20169 yr by KATOOM

I'm not talking about the clip that holds the pushrod on. I got those from the dealer for a dollar or so. I'm talking about the little spring washer you can see in the first picture of my main post with write up.

 the spring washer in the picture still looked good.  If it still puts pressure on the bushing then use it.  

Ok thanks! I just wasn't sure if that was as much as it was supposed to be or if some nylon washers taking up that space wouldn't be better than a spring washer. 

If you look at your brake pedal, is that where the spring washer is? Between the pedal and the bushing? or is it between the bushing and the frame that this all hangs from?

Also, what kind of grease would you guys use on this? The talks about Mopar multi milage silicone grease or something like that in one place, but in another it just talks about hi temp bearing grease. I have some pink, synthetic mobil 1 grease I was planning to use, but after reading that, I am wondering if I should go with silicone grease?

i went digging around in the parts look up just trying to see if maybe the spring was available some where else. No luck but the diagram only showed one of those springs on the brake pedal and none on the clutch. The one you have is probably good. As far as grease I would think most anything would work. It's not like it is under a lot stress.

Ok thanks! From your interpretation of the diagram, where would you say that washer goes? Between the bushings and the pedal? Or between the bushings and the frame that everything hangs from? It seems odd to me that it would be between the bushings and the pedal like mine was....and with the things I've found on my truck I don't trust anything the po's have done lol 

Thats where the diagram shows it, just like your photo shows it. https://mopar1973man.com/external-media/pdf/1999Ramparts.pdf#view=FitB&page=574 I hope that links the page. It shows the auto brake pedal; The page with the clutch pedal does not show a brake pedal. I could not find a diagram showing both pedals. I see no reason for it not to be as shown on the diagram though.

it appears that link does not take you to the exact page. It is page page 95 in that section.

Well this is very disappointing. Got everything all greased and put back together with new parts, and at first it seemed great, but after getting the truck warmed up, then running into Lowe's for a bit and then driving it again the problem is definitely still there. That seems to be the trigger for it too. Its fine until you get it warmed up, shut it off for a bit, and then drive it again. Really weird. So what should my next step be? Do you guys think I could learn anything by pulling the slave and moving it by hand and looking in there? Maybe try and move the fork by hand some? I don't want to throw new hydros at this thing if I don't have to. Especially since my are new and I'd be waiting for months to find out from Napa if there are gona give my money back or not. Should I just keep driving it for a while and see if the problem goes away on its own? Maybe its not really a problem but just a stage in the break in of the clutch and all? What do you all think? 

 

Btw thanks for the diagram dripley, it was very helpful. 

Edited February 29, 20169 yr by leathermaneod

Warm the truck up to the point where the pedal is sticky, then undo and remove the slave and feel the forks movement by hand.  It should ONLY move forward and back about 3/4 an inch and it should be very smooth.  If not then there ya go.  Just dont pull it too forcefully if it's sticky otherwise you probably pull the fork off the pivot ball.

Edited February 29, 20169 yr by KATOOM

In the clutch diagnosis section of the FSM, it talks about the master cylinder plunger "dragging and/or binding", and in that case the components are corroded or worn and to replace the hydros. Maybe I just got a bad unit?

Alright mission accomplished! I went out, pulled the slave and tried to move the fork. Its hard to get a hold of it to move it around because that hole is so small. I was able to move it back and forth, I'd say about an inch or so. I don't really know what it should feel like, but I didn't feel anything that concerned me. It was kind of sticky, but like the smooth stickiness of grease, not what I'm feeling through the pedal. Now of course I can't push it anywhere near all the way by hand. However, next I tried to push the slave cylinder piston in by hand. At first it was kind of stuck, but then it moved and squeaked pretty good. Im not sure if thats just the sound of air going through the little hole in the reservoir cap or what, but between it being stuck slightly at first, and then that noise, I'm thinking I got a bad one. What does it sound like to you?

Check the fork as I described.  That should eliminate or diagnose possibly the throwout dragging and sticking as it moves along the input shaft sleeve.

 

2 minutes ago, KATOOM said:

Check the fork as I described.  That should eliminate or diagnose possibly the throwout dragging and sticking as it moves along the input shaft sleeve.

I did, see below.....

 

20 minutes ago, leathermaneod said:

Alright mission accomplished! I went out, pulled the slave and tried to move the fork. Its hard to get a hold of it to move it around because that hole is so small. I was able to move it back and forth, I'd say about an inch or so. I don't really know what it should feel like, but I didn't feel anything that concerned me. It was kind of sticky, but like the smooth stickiness of grease, not what I'm feeling through the pedal. Now of course I can't push it anywhere near all the way by hand. However, next I tried to push the slave cylinder piston in by hand. At first it was kind of stuck, but then it moved and squeaked pretty good. Im not sure if thats just the sound of air going through the little hole in the reservoir cap or what, but between it being stuck slightly at first, and then that noise, I'm thinking I got a bad one. What does it sound like to you?

 

But thats why I was explicit on saying "check when the engine is fully warmed and the clutch pedal is feeling sticky".

This is because the fork should move very easily as there's no stress or binding going on in there.  Of course you cant move the fork farther than its free unobstructed movement in either direction because the pressure plate requires somewhere around 3500 lbs to move.  But what could be happening is the heat after everything is hot is changing tolerances, and the grease on the shaft can be getting hotter, or is contaminated with clutch dust and only showing its ugly self when everything is warmed.

As for the slave, the piston shaft is protected by a rubber boot that fits on the slave and sits up against the bell housing hole.  If the rubber boot slips off then it can allow clutch dust to contaminate the slave piston and get into the hydraulic fluid.  An indication of this happening is pulling the slave and seeing if the shaft is clean on the inside of the rubber boot and that the hydraulic fluid is not dark.  If it is then the slave could be bad.

13 minutes ago, KATOOM said:

Warm the truck up to the point where the pedal is sticky, then undo and remove the slave and feel the forks movement by hand.  It should ONLY move forward and back about 3/4 an inch and it should be very smooth.  If not then there ya go.  Just dont pull it too forcefully if it's sticky otherwise you probably pull the form off the pivot ball.

I have never tried this so how hard is it to push the clutch in thru the slave hole when you dont have the mechanical advantage of the clutch pedal? Sure looks like it would it would be difficult.

i believe you answered my question.

 

16 minutes ago, leathermaneod said:

In the clutch diagnosis section of the FSM, it talks about the master cylinder plunger "dragging and/or binding", and in that case the components are corroded or worn and to replace the hydros. Maybe I just got a bad unit?

My issues was caused by the throw out bearing binding on input sleeve the best I could tell. It was dry. I added some grease to it and did not completely fix it. The new SB I just had installed does not bind at all and it is working off the same hydros. I think the FSM is more dealing with problems with hydros that have been in for a while. 

 

Just my 2 cents worth. Katoom and you seem to be getting it covered.

The truck was fully warmed and pedal sticky. When I posted the first post tonight I had literally just parked it. Thats why I'm really wondering if the hydros are bad somehow. I did not notice any issues with the fork movement. It wasn't perfectly consistent. By that I mean towards the rear most part of its travel was a little tighter, (more grease there because it wouldn't normally move to that spot by itself I'm thinking), but I did not feel anything that I think could cause my issue. 

Again.....the fork should move freely and smoothly forward and back, bump to bump about 3/4 of an inch.  If you're uncertain of this then check again.

No, I'm certain of what I felt, just not sure if what I'm feeling is a problem or not. It's movement is very smooth, just not perfectly consistent toward the rearmost part...Is there anything else I can try before buying new hydros?

wouldnt fact of the slave cylinder sticking and being hard to push in at first indicate an issue with it?

It's also possible that I was trying to move the fork too far and that's why it was a little harder towards the rear of the truck. I just thought of that because of what you said about the 3/4 inch katoom. I'm pretty sure I moved it more than 3/4....

 

By the way I'm not trying to disagree with you or doubt your knowledge/experience on this. I'm just trying to verify as much as possible what's going on. And I didn't feel anything that I think could possibly be causing what I'm feeling in the pedal. I guess I really want it to be the hydros, for obvious reasons, but in my opinion, I haven't found anything that really tells me it's the throw out bearing.