Alright this is gonna get intense lol. Here we have a bunch of kids dead.......alright so I have been researching this along with all of the past massacres like this. They all play out the same, kill people then kill self. As I researched I noticed one huge flaw. You can get these damn guns as easy as a loaf of bread.. And in todays instance, just walk over and grab it and kill your mom. HOW is it that easy? I can go to walmart, buy everything I need, stuff it in my coat, go to my chemistry class of 500 people where there are no metal detectors, and clean a lot more than 20 off in no time. I mean these guys are getting semi autos with banana clips..well the columbine guys were that I read about. So then we have the one solution of everyone having guns. Well that worked in one town, but the cost would be huge for the whole USA. Every household would need one.. Then they need bullets and whatnot. But lets say Mike is there with his pistol on his side. Obviously this isn't concealed.. If I come in with my trenchcoat, how hard is it for me to turn around, pull out my gun, turn back around and take him out instantly. I mean it's not hard to look around in an empty hallway to see potential threats. Then open the door to chemistry, everyone facing forward, sitting ducks... It's just wayyyyyyyyy too easy! Todays thing was proof! You guys want more guns but I'd realllly like to hear your thoughts on how more guns will stop this crap. There are gun safes.. Even still, how hard is it for a 20 year old to overpower their mom...make her tell them the gun safe code. Plus, most of these guys are not even suspected of anything like that, so they probably already know the code. There are no metal detectors anywhere really... So yeah, anywhere is a target. It's so simple. Same with taking someones credit card, you don't have to sign anything at the gas pump, swipe and go, mine doesnt even have a pin at the pump. I was talking to a guy in the netherlands about this and he said they cannot get guns there. Says it is so hard to get a license to have one that most people don't bother. Since there are basically no guns at all there, there is only petty crap. Knife stabbings or something. To me, either everyone needs a gun, or nobody can have a gun. This mix of gun owners vs. innocents is not working. The gun owners are not responsible at all. But nor is whoever sells them. The columbine guys got that stuff easilllly. Now I know how this is gonna go, and I'm here to say I don't go either way. If nobody but cops had guns, there would still be a psycho cop abusing his power so someone would need a gun to balance the equation. So tell me, what exactly do you guys think the solution for this crap is? Other than keeping people happy...there will always be ONE psycho who pulls something like this.

Well, here you go! Paragould, Arkansas Second source

Well damn. I just got a cookie cutter response from the senator. Nothing he said responds to anything I told him. I didn't mention anything about what a tragedy it was since it's apparent.

Dear Ryan,

Thank you for contacting me regarding the terrible shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Connecticut. I share your shock at this incredible tragedy.

As the father of a young son and grandfather to six children under the age of 10, I am horrified by this incredible act of violence against defenseless children and the teachers who were trying to protect them. Like all Missourians, I'm very worried about our kids' safety.

We must have a serious national discussion about preventing these kinds of senseless acts of violence and protecting our children in their schools, and that should include a discussion about finding ways to spend federal dollars more wisely when it comes to treating and identifying people who are mentally ill and intervening before they do something that tragically impacts their lives and the lives of others.

There are no easy answers here. The families in Newtown are still mourning, and this is not the time to have political arguments or a knee jerk reaction from Washington.

Like you, I am shocked by this incredible tragedy, and I hope all Americans will join me in praying for the victims and their families after this horrific and senseless act of violence.

Sincere regards,

Roy Blunt

United States Senator

The 64 thousand dollar question is, was that truly from the senator or simply from one of his publicists? My guess is the latter, but I guess its the thought (sort of) that counts. Probably a very general response that they will send out more than once to a concerned citizen....

The 64 thousand dollar question is, was that truly from the senator or simply from one of his publicists? My guess is the latter, but I guess its the thought (sort of) that counts. Probably a very general response that they will send out more than once to a concerned citizen....

Yeah I'm thinking so but I'm also wondering how many letters he really gets. I mean Mike is the main guy here and he acts like he gets hundreds of emails, hundreds of calls, I am number 2 and hardly get anything. Maybe I give off an idiot aroma so nobody wants my input lol. But I'm just not sure if everyone just goes straight to the president rather than those at lower levels. I mean if he barely gets any letters then why couldn't he read the 3 he gets a week..

Hes probably too busy going on all expenses paid ski trips paid for by contractors competing for the next addition on his half million dollar home with money that hes embezelled from yours truly :lmao:Yeah it sounds a little far fetched but something similar recently happened with some of Clevelands finest politicians :mad:I just dont trust any of em, regardless of the front they put on

The drug related mass murder story just keeps piling on, This link has a ton of info and links to other stories. Even a video link of the POS Michael Moore giving an interview of how he believes the phycological frugs are to blame but has now decided to go after the guns.:banghead: http://www.cchrint.org/2012/07/20/the-aurora-colorado-tragedy-another-senseless-shooting-another-psychotropic-drug/

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=04UqzYOdGNs

On my radar screen there are 2 articles that need your attention. Read and release to others... http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=263799 http://rense.com/general95/vance2.html

Let there be light! A turn for some change! The right change, too!

I honestly don't think there's a conspiracy... but these do gooders don't get it that "gun free zones" are attractive targets for nuts. The Movie Theater attacker passed up several closer to attack innocents where it seemed a longer response time. I don't like what I'm hearing. I believe that we will have Gun Control shoved where the sun doesn't shine. There's just too much momentium. I hope that we will have a long memory and those who have this wrong idea, no longer represent us.Sure we can harden the schools more, though the school that was attacked had some of the best. But not bullet proof glass. Who'd have thought? What is happening here is Police are now in every school. High schools often have an assigned officer... If the government destroyed every civilian gun... and prevented smuggling them in from overseas... the evil people of the world will just use dynamite, propane, fertilizer... Line police do not favor gun control... I don't know any cop who does not leave a gun at home with his competant spouce... civilian guns! I think that there should be "a gun" in every school... a Police Officer, an armed guard, a Principal/administrator appointed as Special Officer. My High School had a Sp. Off. so many years ago. If it were a Principal / VP a locked box could be bolted inside their office. I recall from my Police Training (again many years ago) some high risk stings where store fronts were built with bullet proof counters & gun ports for back up officers. Schools deserve nothing less! Previous tragidies have resulted in better Police tactics... new, active shooter drills include defacto squads making entry as quickly as possible since it seems the cowards who perpitrate these acts... never intend to leave alive... but don't want any pain & will end it at the first counter action. These new techniques are always reactive after previous plans have failed. But charging into gun fire bare handed only works in movies... John Wayne need not apply! A simple drill will quickly identify cover points & fields of fire. It will seem miracious... shooters will avoid schools if they believe they'll meet resistance... because they seek out other softer targets. My Son-in-law is African, from Cote d'bois... a country with years of civiil wars, elections which were ignored without armed intervention. For all of the USA amosity... our transition of power is remarkable. Perhaps unique in the world. We've not had much luck exporting our peaceful traditions... But unique in our Liberty... is the responsibility... if we choose to own firearms...

Let there be light! A turn for some change! The right change, too!

I dont know ....... I read the article and now Im thinking 1) Got to be worried about some pi##ed off school teacher taking out half the school with the gun hes allowed to carry. 2) Idiots continue to attack schools but come in full armoured gear - now we have a bigger problem. I dont have an answer but the stats suggest having lots of guns available mixed with the social issue here arent helping - so unsure how more guns helps. http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNSTAT.gif http://blogtruth.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/gun_stats1.jpg?w=450 Why cant we have far less availability to weapons...... huge fines (like immediate prison and large fines) if firearms not in a locked tamper proof safe.... and huge funding increases to police and social services being available for those that need rather than paying $100 million to each 1 of our athletes. Talk about social issues ....... I like having guns, my dads a 3 purple heart VET , I come from a farming background in AUS (originally) ..... but can I think of a reason I REALLY need a gun ..... not really.

I dont know ....... I read the article and now Im thinking 1) Got to be worried about some pi##ed off school teacher taking out half the school with the gun hes allowed to carry. 2) Idiots continue to attack schools but come in full armoured gear - now we have a bigger problem. I dont have an answer but the stats suggest having lots of guns available mixed with the social issue here arent helping - so unsure how more guns helps. http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNSTAT.gif http://blogtruth.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/gun_stats1.jpg?w=450 Why cant we have far less availability to weapons...... huge fines (like immediate prison and large fines) if firearms not in a locked tamper proof safe.... and huge funding increases to police and social services being available for those that need rather than paying $100 million to each 1 of our athletes. Talk about social issues ....... I like having guns, my dads a 3 purple heart VET , I come from a farming background in AUS (originally) ..... but can I think of a reason I REALLY need a gun ..... not really.

John, here's my discussion to your responses. Let me start by saying, however, that I totally respect your, as well as everyone else own opinions and stands on the subject. 1) this definitely can be an issue, but I think those that are allowed to carry are more deeply scrutinized and tested to ensure they're the safest individual that they can be, before being allowed to tote. 2) this could be a concern, but there is less to gain for them personally (unlike robbing a bank or something) so the financial investment is less of a payoff. Firearms locked in safes: who's gonna check and enforce this, unless it's after the fact? I agree on the local governmental funding. Hats off to your pops for the.. not one, not two, but THREE PHs.. My hat's off to him and he has my undivided respect. I'm prior service (86-94) and I have the utmost respect for all honorable veterans. I, too, come from a farming background, my father and brothers are/were all prior military, my father has been a sheriff, local LE, etc., and I have grown up around guns. They've always been a part of our life, and we were always taught the rights, wrongs, and consequences of firearms. Something I've never put out publicly, ever.. My oldest brother took his life with a firearm, on purpose. So I could really have a hatred for weapons, but I don't. He made a poor choice and followed it. Granted, it was a double-whammy, as drugs were the influence. (General portion) Bottom line is, I don't think that there's an easy answer or solution to any of this. Making guns illegal will NOT fix this problem. I'll not regurgitate the other illegal items in this country that are readily available, but tools aren't the problem.

John, here's my discussion to your responses. Let me start by saying, however, that I totally respect your, as well as everyone else own opinions and stands on the subject.

AMEN

this could be a concern, but there is less to gain for them personally (unlike robbing a bank or something) so the financial investment is less of a payoff.

What financial gain did any of the nuts at schools after - lost me on this one ?

Firearms locked in safes: who's gonna check and enforce this, unless it's after the fact?

No-one will. But if you get caught even after fact with guns not lo0cked up - and its immediate jail minimum - no lesser setence - guess your gonna make sure they are locked up when not in use.

Hats off to your pops for the.. not one, not two, but THREE PHs.. My hat's off to him and he has my undivided respect. I'm prior service (86-94) and I have the utmost respect for all honorable veterans.

yeah he's a hard-arse too - in a godo way - just glad hes finally getting older so I can kinda keep up with him even now ....

I'll not regurgitate the other illegal items in this country that are readily available, but tools aren't the problem.

Not saying make illegal. Im saying drastically reduce the number of guns. Why does every mom and pop and kid over 18 need a gun - its ridiculous. Are bombs for fun illegal (small ones ?) - but guns - no - oh its a sport - horsepoop. Oh I need it for livestock and pest control - nuts - plenty of alternatives. Its just my opinion. I come from a different country - but when I look at AUS/UK gun violence comapred to here and I look at the cultural difference in that everyone here believes they have a right under the 2nd amendment Im personally like "get over it" - times change. They didnt have school massacares and IPODS and playstations back then either Dont blame the tool - well ..... I guess cars dont kill people either. Im sure if we were all drunk driving in horse and buggy the deaths would be the same. Common - of course they are to blame - not alone - but they are. Someones just got to decide if the benefits of guns being available to every friggin nut out there outweighs the benefits of the deaths. Name me one good reason someone should have a gun ?? Its just everyone so scared of everone else in america they want one in case. Its just my thought - the other thought is its so ingrained here it wont chage. So then if that options off the table - Id probably say - hey - lets let every man woman and change carry concealed weapons to school, out of school, work ....... and see whos left standing at the end - who knows - maybe that argument would work. I just know for a fact if my colleagues start bringing weapons to work - Im bringing 2 as there's enough tension in workplaces now I can see this getting worse not better.

AMEN

Not saying make illegal. Im saying drastically reduce the number of guns. Why does every mom and pop and kid over 18 need a gun - its ridiculous. Are bombs for fun illegal (small ones ?) - but guns - no - oh its a sport - horsepoop. Oh I need it for livestock and pest control - nuts - plenty of alternatives.

Its just my opinion. I come from a different country - but when I look at AUS/UK gun violence comapred to here and I look at the cultural difference in that everyone here believes they have a right under the 2nd amendment Im personally like "get over it" - times change. They didnt have school massacares and IPODS and playstations back then either

Dont blame the tool - well ..... I guess cars dont kill people either. Im sure if we were all drunk driving in horse and buggy the deaths would be the same. Common - of course they are to blame - not alone - but they are. Someones just got to decide if the benefits of guns being available to every friggin nut out there outweighs the benefits of the deaths. Name me one good reason someone should have a gun ?? Its just everyone so scared of everone else in america they want one in case.

Its just my thought - the other thought is its so ingrained here it wont chage. So then if that options off the table - Id probably say - hey - lets let every man woman and change carry concealed weapons to school, out of school, work ....... and see whos left standing at the end - who knows - maybe that argument would work.

I just know for a fact if my colleagues start bringing weapons to work - Im bringing 2 as there's enough tension in workplaces now I can see this getting worse not better.

I take offense to this...

You said you come from a different country, so I take it you are not a US native. I have had some family friends who were natives to Britain. They come here and see a night and day difference.

People who come from other country's tend not to care about our founding documents or understand them as completely as some American born citizens. This is not to say that just because we are born in the US we have the upper hand in understanding our own documents more than an immigrant. I just want to point to the fact that usually it means more that we as kids growing up are taught what it means and why. So we gain a deeper understanding of the importance of it.

"I look at the cultural difference in that everyone here believes they have a right under the 2nd amendment Im personally like "get over it" - times change."

This statement sets me off pretty good... You gotta understand something. I will be polite as possible as I do not want to make this thread get locked.

Our constitution is supposed to be viewed as a LIVING DOCUMENT. This means that your statemnt is invalid and is not in the right view of our documents that make up the framework of this country. This also means that our documents are NEVER to be viewed as "open for interpretation". Thats why we have ourselves in the mess we do now, because all these idiots in our govt. running in the show think they need to revise what the documents say everytime a new generation comes along. Hence why the Obama admin. invokes the commerce clause for their healthcare mandate.

When you view the 2nd amendment in its right light, you will understand that your statement will stem from ignorance. Don't compare our country to others. We have the right to keep and bear arms. WHY? To restrain the govt. from imposing TYRANNY on the PEOPLE.

"Name me one good reason someone should have a gun ?? Its just everyone so scared of everone else in america they want one in case."

Govt. tyranny! Self-defense of yourself/others. Thats TWO good reasons!

....I'm gonna go take a walk.

- - - Updated - - -

Chinese man attacks 22 children with KNIFE.

What should we do about knives now? There everywhere. Everyone has one in their kitchen, should we lock them up too? What if a kid were to get ahold of one of these dastardly weapons of mass destruction?

I suppose we ought to adapt the mindset of a liberal and allow the govt. to save us from ourselves! Before you know it, we will all be so SAFE from ourselves, we will be DEAD!

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

AMEN

What financial gain did any of the nuts at schools after - lost me on this one ?

No-one will. But if you get caught even after fact with guns not lo0cked up - and its immediate jail minimum - no lesser setence - guess your gonna make sure they are locked up when not in use.

yeah he's a hard-arse too - in a godo way - just glad hes finally getting older so I can kinda keep up with him even now ....

Not saying make illegal. Im saying drastically reduce the number of guns. Why does every mom and pop and kid over 18 need a gun - its ridiculous. Are bombs for fun illegal (small ones ?) - but guns - no - oh its a sport - horsepoop. Oh I need it for livestock and pest control - nuts - plenty of alternatives.

Its just my opinion. I come from a different country - but when I look at AUS/UK gun violence comapred to here and I look at the cultural difference in that everyone here believes they have a right under the 2nd amendment Im personally like "get over it" - times change. They didnt have school massacares and IPODS and playstations back then either

Dont blame the tool - well ..... I guess cars dont kill people either. Im sure if we were all drunk driving in horse and buggy the deaths would be the same. Common - of course they are to blame - not alone - but they are. Someones just got to decide if the benefits of guns being available to every friggin nut out there outweighs the benefits of the deaths. Name me one good reason someone should have a gun ?? Its just everyone so scared of everone else in america they want one in case.

Its just my thought - the other thought is its so ingrained here it wont chage. So then if that options off the table - Id probably say - hey - lets let every man woman and change carry concealed weapons to school, out of school, work ....... and see whos left standing at the end - who knows - maybe that argument would work.

I just know for a fact if my colleagues start bringing weapons to work - Im bringing 2 as there's enough tension in workplaces now I can see this getting worse not better.

There have actually been massacres since before 1776 when indians came into a school house and killed everyone in it but 3 kids.

I take offense to this...

You said you come from a different country, so I take it you are not a US native. I have had some family friends who were natives to Britain. They come here and see a night and day difference.

People who come from other country's tend not to care about our founding documents or understand them as completely as some American born citizens. This is not to say that just because we are born in the US we have the upper hand in understanding our own documents more than an immigrant. I just want to point to the fact that usually it means more that we as kids growing up are taught what it means and why. So we gain a deeper understanding of the importance of it.

"I look at the cultural difference in that everyone here believes they have a right under the 2nd amendment Im personally like "get over it" - times change."

This statement sets me off pretty good... You gotta understand something. I will be polite as possible as I do not want to make this thread get locked.

Our constitution is supposed to be viewed as a LIVING DOCUMENT. This means that your statemnt is invalid and is not in the right view of our documents that make up the framework of this country. This also means that our documents are NEVER to be viewed as "open for interpretation". Thats why we have ourselves in the mess we do now, because all these idiots in our govt. running in the show think they need to revise what the documents say everytime a new generation comes along. Hence why the Obama admin. invokes the commerce clause for their healthcare mandate.

When you view the 2nd amendment in its right light, you will understand that your statement will stem from ignorance. Don't compare our country to others. We have the right to keep and bear arms. WHY? To restrain the govt. from imposing TYRANNY on the PEOPLE.

"Name me one good reason someone should have a gun ?? Its just everyone so scared of everone else in america they want one in case."

Govt. tyranny! Self-defense of yourself/others. Thats TWO good reasons!

....I'm gonna go take a walk.

- - - Updated - - -

Chinese man attacks 22 children with KNIFE.

What should we do about knives now? There everywhere. Everyone has one in their kitchen, should we lock them up too? What if a kid were to get ahold of one of these dastardly weapons of mass destruction?

I suppose we ought to adapt the mindset of a liberal and allow the govt. to save us from ourselves! Before you know it, we will all be so SAFE from ourselves, we will be DEAD!

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

You kinda nit picked the parts of what he said that tripped your trigged but ignored what he said leading up to it.

"I look at the cultural difference in that everyone here believes they have a right under the 2nd amendment Im personally like "get over it" - times change."

This is just personal opinion from John... and I always thought that guns were originally legalized so when the british or whatever other outside force showed up, we could protect ourselves, rather than having to somehow disarm them with our own bare hands. We don't exactly have that problem today, the military keeps the war in some other country. Now if we were iraq where the military were coming over here and bombing us and whatnot, then I could see it. But I think having guns just to shoot each other when they want to steal our car is a little over the top. I realize it is also for protecting against massacres but John has a very good point that those who have guns leave them on the damn coffee table. If you are that stupid then why should the same stupid people even have guns? I read about a ton of the massacres a few days ago and a vast majority simply went over and picked up their parents' gun. One's dad was the damn police chief and the kid did the same thing, took his pistol and shotgun AND the damn squad car, after shooting his dad as usual.

"Name me one good reason someone should have a gun ?? Its just everyone so scared of everone else in america they want one in case."

You say for government/tyranny but since when has anyone shot up the government to get what they want..and when have they ever even got close to getting away with it. I also don't see how killing them all is going to show that you are the better person. Before he said that he said "Someones just got to decide if the benefits of guns being available to every friggin nut out there outweighs the benefits of the deaths." which is very valid since the deaths are surely outweighing the benefits. Everyone says get more guns, but I see that more as there will be more stupid people leaving them on coffee tables. One I read about was a 6 year old who picked up the gun and went to school and shot a girl he didn't like. A 6 year old! An adult is THAT stupid. THAT is the problem with guns, stupid people own them.

Nobody died in the chinese knife fight...

Don't take this the wrong way Hex, just trying to level the playing fields.

The 2nd amandmant in its writing gives us the right to be armed "Equal" to the government to form a militia to protect ourselves from our own governments tyranny.

That my friends is what the government is afraid of. We as civilians have long ago seen our rights taken away and weakened since we can not easily own even a fully auto true "Assult weapon" let alone any other sort of advanced military weaponery.

Our Constitution and Bill of rights have been the backbone to the freedoms we cherish "And the main reason people want to immigrate here". Because they do not have the freedoms we have here, But that said the ideals ingraned into us patriots are what have kept the one world order and globalist bankers from being able to take the country over as easily as we see happening over the last few years just under Obama alone they have taken over several middle east countries and there are just a few left standing in the way and Obama who works for the UN instead of the USA is handing it over as fast as he can. If he doesn't get impeached before this term is over we are going to be hanging on by a thread if at all. The new quantative easing unlimited is set up to have the dollor extinct in 4 years to try and roll in a one world bank/currency.

- - - Updated - - -

OH yeah on a side note why is nobody talking about the NDAA bill 'National Defense Authorization Act" in which the house just voted on and passed this week which all but eliminates or substantially weekens our 4th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th amendment rights via the "Idefinate detention" section of the act. They can arrest anyone for no reason other than "suspision" which they do not have to define and detain them for an indefinate amount of time with no constitutional rights to any kind of representation, trial ect ect ect.

http://www.infowars.com/detention-protection-provision-stripped-from-ndaa-bill/

Not to mention they have all but eliminated the Posse Comitatus act which prevents any branch of the military to be used as / for civilian law enforcement and a police force against our countries own citizens. Not only are they using military to police our country now they are actually Militarizing our police forces accross the country.

Read through the TSA and homeland security and governments definitions of "Terrorists" and every red blooded American is an enemy of the state or "Terrorist" in some form now.

I will give up my semi-autos when those who guard the President give up theirs. My life is worth as much as HIS! I believe the Second Amendment means what is says. If ever there was a need for young Americans to be familiar marksmen with a AR15 it is now. Instructors from our club, National Match competitors all (and former service members) volunteered at the start of Desert Storm and over a long weekend retrained several hundred deploying service members from Ft Devens, useing our club range and members and club owned semi-auto weapons. (They did bring a truck load of GI ammo to use.)Several club members started as Juniors came up through the program, which our club sponsers, and won full scholarships to US service academies.

I think ryan kinda summarised what I was trying to say.On the immigrant thing - well we are ALL immigrants. Its just a matter of perspective and time. Howerver if it makes you feel better my wife is born here - and she shares the same view on the matter - so just think of it as her views I however feel I have as much of a right to express an opinion on the matter as you The end of the day I dont have an answer - they are just my/our thoughts. I also said ..hey ..why not just let everyone be armed - and see what the stats show and where the cards lie at the end of it. Im just thinking wow imagine getting into an argument with your boss or someone over a bill whos standing in front of you with a fully loaded glock and a squirelly look in his eye - fun times.Tyranny of government - heck that happens all day everyday. Guns arent going to stop that - the "people" will who march and think intuitively. Governments will always have more and bigger weapons that the people - doesnt mean tyranny wins.Anyway - just my thoughts - rather go back to a time kids could play on the streets with having to worry about this stuff, better values, better family care and responsibility, better society. Now its all just "what I deserve and what I should have - my money, my cars, my guns".

So just because we dont fight any wars over here anymore we should change the 2nd amendment? I dont think so. The constittution was written to protect the people from England AND our own government. Under no circumsrances should they try to justify changing that, yet everytime something like a shooting happens they try to brain wash us into thinking we need to change it. Unfortunately, by some of the above comments, they are slowly achieving that

An armed society is a polite society! (Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon)

Eh. You guys are really testy today. I don't see any easy solution but going after each other isn't one of them. I can go either way on this issue and I'm trying to keep the peace but it is turning around on me. We all have different opinions and you guys need to respect that. If there was any one opinion that was correct, there would be a book out entitled "Facts to abide by". But there isn't. We all have grown up differently and see things in a different light so it is disrespectful to disregard another persons input when it may or may not actually work. Because of this, I will close this thread before it goes any further. It was a long running thread with a lot of good input but somehow it ran off track this morning. I started this thread and I thank all of you for your input and hope you guys will respect my decision for closing this. We are here to help each other or respectfully debate each others input, not the opposite. Questions/comments...PM me.