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fuel lubricity study 2007

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after  searching for  a  fuel lab to do some  home testing..  I found this site.

http://www.johnfjensen.com/Diesel_fuel_additive_test.pdf

 

It is   7 years old,  but  had  some pretty good  info on  various  additives  still  on the shelves today.

 

I always wondered what the  hfrr  stood for,  and  in a nut shell,   they take a  steel ball bearing,  and  it's  rubbed  across a  steel bar at  high frequency for  90 minutes,   immersed in the  test  fuel.

At that time,  the  ball bearing is  microscopically  inspected for  wear,  and  the  'scar' is  measured in microns.

the actual  measurement of the  scar is  the fuel rating..

 

I can't  cut and paste  that  page  to here,   but  I promise  it's worth taking a look at!

 

our  wally world  2 stoke  was  in the game  @ 474  score...  but  only tested at  1:200 ratio!  sidebar:   NOT ULSD COMPLIANT,  MAY DAMAGE  2007  SYSTEMS.    wth?    are they  talking about  the  duramaxes  and  their  optic eye in the fuel system??

 

anyhoo,    #1  with  a  hfrr  score of  221  is  the  SOYPOWER  bio diesel  blended  at   50:1   with   'normal' fuel.

 

My   beloved theory of  running   weo  fell short!   

They used  Shell Rotella  15w40  at   200:1 ratio,  with only a   score of  634...   only  slightly better than the  baseline fuel.   almost a  statistically  insignificant amount.    Sidebar:  not  ulsd compliant.

 

I'd like to  blend  some various amounts   and  send  off to be tested  of  my  recipe!

maybe  the   Rotella  is  the problem?? :lmao:

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Owner
  On 5/5/2014 at 4:13 AM, Diesel said:

If I'm reading your chart right the two stroke oil gives borderline protection,. Opti-Lube Summer gives perfect protection. Is that right?

 

That at 200:1 ratio. 128:1 ratio which I use is actually a lower number unofficially somewhere around 380-420 HFFR.

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    • Like 1
      On 5/5/2014 at 1:19 PM, Mopar1973Man said:

    That at 200:1 ratio. 128:1 ratio which I use is actually a lower number unofficially somewhere around 380-420 HFFR.

    Ah ya. I forgot that. I wish we could see some numbers from a test done at 128:1. I'd like to know if the number is much better than the Opti Lube summer. Also I wonder what the engine manufacture thinks about that low of a number.

    The guy who owned the truck before me would use Power service or Howes. He didn't believe me when I told him they were nowhere as good as 2stroke oil. I stopped in and filled the tank at just under half and put in a quart of2cycle and I could tell the difference in just a couple miles.

    • Like 2
    • Owner

    Take any oil you want and place it in a open container. Say a small amount of 2 cycle oil in a Pepsi bottle cap. Then take any other product you want and pour equal amount in a second Pepsi bottle cap and leave it out for 7 days and watch.

     

    Answer: The oil will remain oil till the end of time. But 90% of all fuel additives will evaporate and leave a tar or sticky substance behind. True lubricants don't evaporate.

    The power service uses tons of alcohol and will mostly evaporate just like Mike said. I didnt mind using the Howes this last winter because it is a petroleum product still and doesnt have any alcohol in it. I still didnt really like having to use it but I didnt really have a choice at -50* F this winter..

    • Author

    true,  alcohol evaps  very easily... so does   benzene, tolulene, all the  rest of  the  'secret' ingredients  they use...   IN A OPEN CONTAINER..  our  fuel  systems  are  for most practical purposes a closed vessel.  A little  will  evap into the   open area  that is  above the fuel until it reaches a  saturated point,  and  can no longer  hold any more...  which point it will  just  condense it  back to liquid  and  re mix  with the  fuel..   It never leaves the tank.

     

    Alcohol  and  the  other light  solvents  are  the  worst thing we can  put through our  pumps..  but  dang it,  if it  helps out with cloud point/gelling...what's a guy to do!

    (tank heater plugged in  from  November to  March?)   

    •
    • Like 1
    • Author
      On 5/6/2014 at 5:24 PM, joecool911 said:

    They do it for RV waste tanks.

    oh man,  heated poop?

      On 5/6/2014 at 5:58 PM, rancherman said:

    oh man, heated poop?

    Doesn't get any better than that.

    • Owner
      On 5/6/2014 at 4:52 PM, rancherman said:

    true,  alcohol evaps  very easily... so does   benzene, tolulene, all the  rest of  the  'secret' ingredients  they use...   IN A OPEN CONTAINER..  our  fuel  systems  are  for most practical purposes a closed vessel.  A little  will  evap into the   open area  that is  above the fuel until it reaches a  saturated point,  and  can no longer  hold any more...  which point it will  just  condense it  back to liquid  and  re mix  with the  fuel..   It never leaves the tank.

     

    Alcohol  and  the  other light  solvents  are  the  worst thing we can  put through our  pumps..  but  dang it,  if it  helps out with cloud point/gelling...what's a guy to do!

    (tank heater plugged in  from  November to  March?)   

     

    I might be true we need the pour point correction but all these product advertise improvement in HFRR score. How can it when there is no lubricant in the product? As for pour point depressants this why I first suggest investigating you local fuel supplier and then properly adding the PPD to the fuel not willy nilly dumping it in when its not required.

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    • Like 1
    • Author

    Good point Mike^^^^^^ 

     

    Ya know,  here's just  a  thought:

     

    When  the  waxes/paraffin    are  starting to  congeal,  and  clump together,  they are  no longer evenly  distributed  in the  fuel..    So  within the liquid,  there  is lower content of  the  paraffin...then  a portion  that  has  a  glob  (microscopically of course) of  paraffin... 

    possible  the  liquid that DOES  make it past the filter  is  possibly  dryer because  the  'goody'  has  been left behind??

    ...... This is  of course,  me assuming the  pariffins  are  a  lubricant..........

     

    So,   technically,   keeping the  dang stuff  melted/dissolved  with  an additive  keeps  the  HFRR  score low..

     

    Tongue in cheek,  additives  help with keeping the score low,  ONLY because  it's allowing  EVERYTHING through the filter???

     

    I got a LOT  of    conjecture here ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

     

    It won't be any better than when   the  fuel was  warm...  It won't be any worse  when  cold.

    Edited by rancherman

    • Like 1

    I don't have to worry about gelling................... Thankfully

    No gelling here either. Not sure why cuz we're further north than most that are having trouble. Is Canadian fuel better quality? It always amazes me how much trouble you guys have. We never add antigel either.

    • Owner

    Every since I got on the 2 cycle oil I've never used any anti -gel either and see winter temperature as low -25*F.

     

    -25F-1-1-11.jpg

     

    So what I've always done is my homework of where the quality fuels are and who adds PPD (pour point depressants). Ask yourself how I got this picture if I didn't do my homework. Hmmm?

     

    2poqhz8.jpg

      On 5/6/2014 at 1:59 PM, Mopar1973Man said:

    Take any oil you want and place it in a open container. Say a small amount of 2 cycle oil in a Pepsi bottle cap. Then take any other product you want and pour equal amount in a second Pepsi bottle cap and leave it out for 7 days and watch.

     

    Answer: The oil will remain oil till the end of time. But 90% of all fuel additives will evaporate and leave a tar or sticky substance behind. True lubricants don't evaporate.

    But place the same amount of diesel fuel out in the open, and a good portion of that will be evaporated as well.

    The true lubricity additives are alcohol free, at least I know Schaeffers is as well as Optilube. I have a bottle of Fleetgaurd lubricity additive at home, I will post the info on it when I get home. This is a product tested, developed, and approved by Cummins. The point I'm trying to make is not ALL fuel additives are bad. I bet if they retested many of those same brands that were tested 7 years ago most if not all would have a better rating than before.

    • Like 1
    • Owner
      Quote
    But place the same amount of diesel fuel out in the open, and a good portion of that will be evaporated as well.

     

    True but what your seeing is things like Xylene that is added to the fuel for pour point depressant. This will evaporate off and still leave the petroleum product behind. Take a peek at today MSDS sheets for just plain old #2 diesel you'll be shock at what is added these days.

     

      Quote

     

    This is a product tested, developed, and approved by Cummins.

     

    What would be better yet is a product designed by Bosch for there own fuel systems. Even Dodge and Cummins to this day post weird information in concerns to Bosch fuel system but Bosch has there own standards.

     

      Quote
    The point I'm trying to make is not ALL fuel additives are bad. I bet if they retested many of those same brands that were tested 7 years ago most if not all would have a better rating than before.

     

    Might not be bad per say but I don't know of very many people that actually sit down with calculator and say "I pumped 22.493 Gallons that is 2,879.104 ounces of fuel and need to add in 7.19 ounces of additive for 400:1 ratio." Most take the bottle and pour in a huge gulp of it and guess. Then other fill the fuel filter up with straight product and start the truck even harsher yet. So is this over does a good thing or bad thing? Depends on the product and how much huh? :think:

    •
    • Like 1

    I have small 4 oz bottles I keep in my tool box with 1 oz marked increments. One oz of the Schaeffer's I use treats 8 gallons of fuel, so one of my bottles is good for 32 gallons. I will generally pur in what I think I'm gonna use minus a little, fill up, and then add whatever I was short. Between the fuel return of my AD and the fuel sloshing around in the tank, that half an oz or so at the end will get good and mixed up. It's really pretty simple.

    •
    • Like 1
    • Owner
      Quote
    One oz of the Schaeffer's I use treats 8 gallons of fuel, so one of my bottles is good for 32 gallons.

     

    Has anyone taken time to look at ratios?

     

    8 Gallons of fuel x 128 = 1,024 Ounces

     

    Adding 1 ounce to 1,024 ounces of fuel (1,024:1 Ratio)

     

    Attachment is MSDS and links below are the different chemical used just to show you break down of products. You can look up the CAS numbers of each thing and dig deeper.

     

    http://www.chemicalbook.com/ChemicalProductProperty_EN_CB5938980.htm

     

    http://www.epa.gov/iris/subst/0436.htm

     

    http://www.chemicalbook.com/ChemicalProductProperty_EN_CB7479115.htm

     

    http://www.chemicalbook.com/CASEN_111-76-2.htm

     

    http://www.chemicalbook.com/CASEN_95-63-6.htm

     

    http://www.chemicalbook.com/ProdSupplierGWCB9895825_EN.htm

     

    http://www.chemicalbook.com/CASEN_1330-20-7.htm

     

    http://s07.static-shell.com/content/dam/shell-new/local/corporate/trading-shipping/downloads/msds/in-country/netherlands-str/md-distillates-petroleum-hydrotreated-light-cas-64742-47-8---str---en.pdf

     

    http://www.chemicalbook.com/CASEN_100-41-4.htm

     

    This is to teach everyone that you can do your own research on a product and deem if you want to use said product or what? But at least I show a way for you to break down all the products used in a additive so you can figure out if you want to use this product or not.

    264-137ND-msds.pdf

    •
    • Like 1

    I know what's in the additives, I researched BEFORE I started using them. I also know they have surpassed the requirements of the Cummins N14 injector corrosion test performance as well as the Cummins L-10 injector deposit test, has been tested and approved by Bosch and found to have 3 X the lubrication of ULSD, among other cold flow improvement properties and cetene boosters That 2 stroke oil was never DESIGNED to do Or be used for.

    I think I'll trust in the engineers that design the stuff for what it's used for, they've got thousands and thousands of hours of run time to back their product up rather then one HFRR test performed several years ago.

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