I dont want to railroad an awesome thread but I'd like to touch on the topic of fuel cooling via a fuel cooler of some sort.  I just have this crazy premonition that there needs to be a fuel cooler on these trucks.  Given what I recently experienced while towing a very large trailer in 100*+ weather uphill with the engine at 215*-220* and having the throttle do something unexpectedly weird, excessive fuel temps or just plain excessively hot PSG is becoming very likely the culprit of what happened.

 

I'm going to be digging into this topic really heavily and searching for an optimal small radiator to mount somewhere under or in front of the truck.  Possibly with a fan assist too.  There is just too many other trucks/diesel vehicles utilizing a diesel fuel cooler.

 

In saying that, I've wondered if anyone has ever considered trying to cool the PSG itself.  Chip from Bluechip told me around a year ago that Bosch has implemented thicker heat sinks under the PSG but I can’t confirm this and he's not around anymore.....that I know of.  Then I got to thinking about a Peltier Module.....  Why hasn’t this been considered?????  Maybe it couldn’t offset the heat dissipation needed but I think using a $20 Peltier Module and sticking an aluminum bladed computer CPU heat sink to the top of it would have to help.  Here's a video of what this device is if someone doesn’t understand what I'm talking about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Cuh2msd2lo If someone was so inclined they could install an inline thermostat too so it didn’t run in the winter.

 

Maybe this would be better served in another thread but I think its a topic which needs to be revisited again.....

FZ is my #2 favorite, after Warren Zevon. I read his autobiography & also know one of his former prodigys (Adrian Belew) very well. I think I can trust my sources well. He was just a genius when it came to music.

 

Ed

FZ is my #2 favorite, after Warren Zevon. I read his autobiography & also know one of his former prodigys (Adrian Belew) very well. I think I can trust my sources well. He was just a genius when it came to music.

 

Ed

 

Ed I'm just poking fun at ya..... Just poking fun.

Is it possible that AC noise can elevate to damaging levels under higher electrical demands and higher  engine revs?

Edited August 10, 201410 yr by JAG1

Is it possible that AC noise can elevate to damaging levels under higher electrical demands and higher  engine revs?

 

And/or higher engine temps?

Now that where you got to study up on diodes and the alternator brushes and see what the impact could be. So far my truck under a cold start <60*F with grid heater might have a slight surge to .6 but its so fast of change my fluke meter has a hard time catching it. A analog meter would most likely show it better but finding a multi-frequency analog meter is tough.

In my case it would be best to ditch the stock fuel filter can to quit absorbing heat from the manifold. Remember there is a coolant passage in the intake for this reason. But since I'm in the northern states and cold winters do happen (-25*F) I'll keep the stock filter can.

 

Again... Think about it. I've got 4 computers and under full load I can see 160-180*F working temp of the CPU. Also remember I don't have air conditioning here in the house so it possible to see 85-87*F inside the house. Just idling around at 10% load I'm still 130-140*F. This computer is over 5 years old and no harm has come from working it for 48 hours straight at 100% load. (Doing web site backups) Even worse take my laptop to work and use it in a shop with room temperature of 105*F and still work the laptop well into the 160-180*F range and no issues.

 

So why would a mere 130*F fuel temp be a panic for the VP44? Also once again how many reported P0168 codes have you seen? (I've only see one!)

I'm leaning  this way too Mike ^^^^^^

I'd  like to  interject  one factor,  and  that's  the  'shock'   that  may  go through  the  pump  after  a   good  heat soak,  upon  restart.     I'd like to think  that particular   cycle  is  perhaps  the most  violent  in temp swings.

 

Lets  say  your  tank temp is  85,   your  pump's  maxed out  at  140..     fire up the engine  and  you are suddenly  circulating  (after   filter  contents  gets pumped out)     60  degree swing  downward  in a minute or so.

 

now,  put this in a  vehicle that's started/shut down   10-15 times a day,    that's a lot of   wide  swings!

Hard on my system being I've got the stock filter can so the fuel in the fuel filter can is going to be warm and not shock the VP44 on restart. Where someone that deleted the can might see this issue. (But again this all theory right now.) I've worked with Ed and also tried working with ScanGauge II on getting fuel temp for the ScanGauge. They just don't want to help me with the old school ISO bus system they would rather only support the newer CANBUS systems.

Hard on my system being I've got the stock filter can so the fuel in the fuel filter can is going to be warm and not shock the VP44 on restart. Where someone that deleted the can might see this issue. (But again this all theory right now.) I've worked with Ed and also tried working with ScanGauge II on getting fuel temp for the ScanGauge. They just don't want to help me with the old school ISO bus system they would rather only support the newer CANBUS systems.

 

The older these ISB trucks get, the more this will become an issue as the money is moving over to the newer generations.  I think the only thing keeping these trucks around is their proven reliability and capable HP with the high performance world like truck and tractor pulls.

Does anyone know how to decipher the PSG date codes under the bar code?

I'm thinking the biggest way to keep temps down is by actively cooling the fuel through a radiator heat exchange system. I had thought about this idea for a while when I first got the truck. Now, it seems like a big waste of time to me. No offense to anyone when I say that. But its my opinion.

 

I just don't see how its worth it when these trucks run just fine without one, or is this just for conversation sake?

This is ALL for conversation ONLY.  Since none of us have a Bosch test bench or are one of the engineers who built the contraption, we can only speculate with the best intentions.  Of the past 10 years I've been on these forums discussing the VP Mike is the only person I've seen who has personally dissembled one with the intention of research. 

Then again,     a  new pump  every  150-200k  miles  isn't exactly    terrible either....      We'll spend  more on tires  in the same  amount of miles

This is ALL for conversation ONLY.  Since none of us have a Bosch test bench or are one of the engineers who built the contraption, we can only speculate with the best intentions.  Of the past 10 years I've been on these forums discussing the VP Mike is the only person I've seen who has personally dissembled one with the intention of research. 

 

Gotcha

Mike is the only person I've seen who has personally dissembled one with the intention of research.

 

 

Thanks Katoom...

 

As for the PSG failure I do think there is a certain amount of failure from heat, then a certain amount of failure from AC noise, then another amount from physical abuse/vibration.

 

Ed brings up the topic of the junk lead free solder. But if you watch some of the videos where people replace the transistor they will talk about the legs of the OE transistor being aluminum (or a alloy of some type). Solder won't stick to it. Make you wonder about what was use on the OE.

No transistors are made with aluminum conductor legs. Most likely the problem is that a special flux is needed for no lead solder. Also, my speculation is that after so many heat cycles, it has heat cycle fatigue & may change the properties of the medium. Just speculation.

 

Ed

Hard on my system being I've got the stock filter can so the fuel in the fuel filter can is going to be warm and not shock the VP44 on restart. Where someone that deleted the can might see this issue. (But again this all theory right now.) I've worked with Ed and also tried working with ScanGauge II on getting fuel temp for the ScanGauge. They just don't want to help me with the old school ISO bus system they would rather only support the newer CANBUS systems.

geez mike,  just how  poor of a  fuel system do  you have....  how  long  do you think it takes  to  flush a filter can  MAYBE  holding a  quart of fuel  with your top notch  pump???     30 seconds??        

I'd  say the  fuel temp  in the filter can is  pretty darn close  to  everything else  AFTER a  heat soak,  how can it not? ;   4 inches away  from  the  side of the block,  under the hood,  bolted  directly to  the   intake..   

All great for  wintertime no doubt.   

I wasn't  figuring  millisecond-type-shock...      30  seconds  in my  tiny brain  is  still pretty  quick,  especially  when  considering  the  delicacy of  certain components.   yes yes,   then  the  44 itself  has  tempering too...  so  maybe  'shock'  isn't  the  perfect word I  originally used,  but   'swing'  more  fitting. 

The AC noise or electrical resistance variable may be worth more attention since given what some of you have found and think, I'm not sure that we can blame as much on heat as we currently are.  Thats not to say heat isnt the issue but maybe not the culprit I was thinking.  My new toy laser is really fun but I havent had a chance to do any testing with the truck.

 

Anyways, years ago during one of the many lengthy conversations I had with Chip, we were discussing the consideration whereby moving the PSG altogether sounded like the way to go.  But unfortunately "supposedly" there was people (how many?) who had attempted this but found that interfering AC noise only increased as the ribbon wire was lengthened.  Too bad too.....  Or maybe someone more understanding of the process could do better?????  Not me of course.....

how many of us  have used  battery chargers  (still attached and  buzzing)  to help  start in the winter?

how many of us  have used  battery chargers  (still attached and  buzzing)  to help  start in the winter?

 

I typically disconnect the batteries (Positive cable) and charge my batteries. I know that most battery chargers are rather dirty DC power.

 

I had with Chip, we were discussing the consideration whereby moving the PSG altogether sounded like the way to go.  But unfortunately "supposedly" there was people (how many?) who had attempted this but found that interfering AC noise only increased as the ribbon wire was lengthened.

 

You would have to use shielded cable to prevent the noise injection of the sensor.

As little as I understand about that technology I couldn't not wonder why someone wouldn't have or didn't use a shielded ribbon cable but I was no one to be second guessing the discussion either.  All I know is as it was explained to me, the farther they got the PSG from the VP, the more problems they supposedly had with interference.  It just seems like the most logical thing to do is to move the item away from the heat which is most susceptible to the heat.   If you cant move it far enough away somewhere like the firewall or fender, at least build an raised height base for the PSG which allows it to sit up and out an inch or two away from the housing and engine block.  That would also give it far more fuel volume running underneath it.  Again, I have no tooling available to create such a base so my ideas are just grains of salt.