Dynamic

Haha... I'm not sure that "deep pockets" is a term that I would use to describe myself, but I do like to have some fun and build things! I'm thinking that an HX35/S472 setup might be a nice winter project.

A STOCK valve body will lock up (with a lockup switch) in 2nd, 3rd or 4th gear. The one exception is that it will not allow lockup in MANUAL 2nd gear. Once the TCC is on, and the transmission has upshifted into 3rd gear and then 4th, the 2-3 and 3-4 shift valves are hydraulically locked in their upshifted positions (ie. the VB can't shift back down into 3rd or 2nd until the converter unlocks). As you come to a stop with the switch still on, the converter won't unlock until governor pressure diminishes to the point where a 2-1 downshift occurs, which is usually pretty much right as you come to a stop. At that point, it will release 4th, 3rd and 2nd in rapid succession, and the converter will unlock...but it all hinges on that 2-1 downshift to exhaust the oil that is locking the converter and holding the shift valves in the upshifted position. What you will feel in the truck if you don't turn off the switch is that you will be coming to a stop still locked in the highest gear that you had achieved (most likely 4th...), and the engine will likely stall before everything lets go after the 2-1 downshift. In short, a stock VB will allow a locked 2-3 and a 3-4 shift, but once the higher gear is engaged, it won't allow a downshift until the TCC is turned off. I don't mind a locked 3-4 upshift, but a 2-3 upshift (the only other shift that a stock VB will give you with the TCC locked) should be avoided. You can use a lockup switch with good effect on a stock valve body, but to really maximize its usefulness requires a few mods to the lower VB (OD/TCC) and separator plate.

Yeah, no kidding! I'm not worried about the transmission, but the HX35 is hating my guts if I don't back off a bit, which kind of defeats the purpose of adding the mods in the first place! I'll be installing an Edge Juice with the new CTS2 screen soon. I'm going to be developing and testing some transmission cooling products in the next few months, so the digital transmission temperature readout will make it nice to quantify test results a bit better. But, adding even more power will not help my turbo situation at all...! I may have to spend a little more effort on the twins I was planning...

I have 100hp injectors and a Smarty as well. Love the combo. I have an HX35 turbo, though,and it can get hot if I'm towing and don't watch the EGT's.

Ahhhh... I understand your question now. No, governor pressure continues to rise with road speed. Also, FWIW, engine rpm has no bearing on either governor or TV pressure. Only road speed and throttle position, respectively. I've certainly been called worse...! I'll take a Tony Garcin reference any day! Thanks, Russ...

Yes, you could do that. In fact, if you were to graph the governor pressure curve (ie. governor pressure psi vs. road speed) of some of the newer trucks, particularly the newer TTVA controlled 48RE's, you would find that the curve is more "stair-stepped" than linear. The valve body cannot perform a direct 1-3 upshift due to the fact that there is no apply oil available at the 2-3 shift valve until the 1-2 shift is completed. In other words, 2-3 apply oil is downstream of the 1-2 shift valve. You can easily get a scenario where the shifts are stacked one on top of another (ie.very light throttle, TV cable broken or unhooked, etc.), but the second shift is dependent upon the first one. Going the other direction (downshifting), all the transmission is doing is releasing elements, so that can happen independent of one another. There is no test port that directly reads 2-3 oil. You could add a port to the intermediate servo area, I suppose. Or you could just watch main line pressure for the pressure fluctuation when the 2-3 shift is commanded. There will be slight drop in line pressure as the intermediate servo and direct clutch piston stroke, followed by restoration of full line pressure when they're fully released/applied... The description I gave above is very simplified, rudimentary explanation of what takes place hydraulically to determine shift points. There are several other things that are at work to smooth things out. Things such as once an upshift has taken place, it now will require a greater amount of TV pressure to command a downshift than was overcome to allow the upshift. In other words, once a shift valve has stroked to the "upshifted" position, it is held in place hydraulically so that it doesn't simply shuttle back and forth between the "upshifted" and "downshifted" positions with the slightest pressure variations. Try this: take off in your truck with light throttle and wait for the 2-3 shift. Once you feel the 2-3 shift, squeeze into the throttle a small amount. Unless you gave it too much throttle for our little object lesson, it stays in 3nd gear, right? Why didn't it immediately downshift back to 2nd? I mean, TV pressure increased, didn't it? Yes, it did, but the 2-3 shift valve is being held in the "upshifted" position by a hydraulic signal that will require a bit more TV pressure to overcome to push it back to the "downshifted" position. There are also other things that come into play such as what happens hydraulically in manual 1st and manual 2nd to hold the shift valves and prevent upshifts altogether, what happens when OD is engaged to prevent any downshifts at the 1-2 or 2-3 shift valves, TCC lockup signals, etc. It is a fairly hydraulically complex environment, but none of it is magic or voodoo...! Here is a photo of the 1-2 and 2-3 shift valves, their governor pressure plugs (the mushroom shaped things on the right), and shift springs out of a 47RE. The 1-2 is on the top, and the 2-3 on the bottom. Their is one additional piece that is not shown, and that is the 2-3 TV plug, which is in the part-throttle body that bolts to the side of the main upper valve body. It's function is a whole separate discussion...

You basically have two different pressures at work in the VB when determining upshift and downshift points. First, there is governor pressure, which is determined by road speed. Early transmissions (46RH, 47RH) used a mechanical governor on the output shaft, and the newer RE transmissions replaced the mechanical governor with the governor pressure solenoid/transducer setup that we all know and love. The PCM generates the governor pressure electrically via the solenoid, and monitors the governor pressure via the transducer. Either way, the faster you are driving, the more governor pressure... Second, you have throttle valve, or TV pressure. This pressure is determined by throttle position. When you press on the throttle, the TV cable pulls on the lever at the transmission, which rotates the TV lever shaft, which then presses on the end of the TV plunger in the VB. The plunger then loads the TV pressure regulator spring more heavily which, in turn, increases TV pressure; the more throttle, the more TV pressure... There are two shift valves in the VB that use governor and TV pressure to determine shift points; the 1-2, and the 2-3 shift valves. (The 3-4 shift valve and TCC lockup valve are controlled separately by the PCM via solenoids and do not use governor or TV pressure to determine their shift points.) At each shift valve, governor pressure acts on one end of the valve, constantly trying to stroke the valve to the "upshifted" position. At the other end, there is a spring holding the valve in the "downshifted" position. In addition to the spring, TV pressure also acts on that same end of the valve, assisting the spring in holding the valve in the "downshifted" position. When you are at a standstill, governor pressure is at a minimum (basically zero psi) and the shift springs hold their valves in the "downshifted" position - first gear. As you take off from a stop, governor pressure begins to rise, acting on the end of the shift valves. If you are light on the throttle, TV pressure is very low and governor pressure quickly rises to the point that the force of the 1-2 shift spring at the other end of the valve is overcome and the 1-2 shift valve strokes, commanding a 1-2 upshift. The transmission is now in 2nd gear... If you are heavier into the throttle, TV pressure assists the spring with greater force, making it necessary for governor pressure to build to a higher level before the force of the spring AND the hydraulic force of the TV pressure acting on the end of the valve to be overcome. This is how the transmission holds each gear for longer when you are heavier into the throttle. As you continue to accelerate, governor pressure continues to rise until the 2-3 spring force (and whatever level of TV pressure that is acting on the 2-3 shift valve) is overcome and the 2-3 shift valve strokes, commanding a 2-3 upshift - 3rd gear... When commanding a downshift, you press on the throttle harder and TV pressure rises. When TV pressure rises to the point that (with the spring's help) governor pressure can be overcome, the valve will stroke back to the "downshifted" position and either a 3-2 or 2-1 downshift is commanded, depending upon which gear you were in. If the throttle application is abrupt enough, and TV pressure rises quickly enough, both valves will be stroked to the "downshifted" position nearly simultaneously, and a 3-1 downshift will occur. This is kind of a simplified explanation of what goes on in the Dodge valve body for 1st - 3rd gear. As I stated earlier, 4th gear (OverDrive) and TCC are controlled directly by the PCM via their respective solenoids.

You don't have to pull the park rod off of the rooster comb (the dreaded E-clip) to get the VB out. I never do, and I pull at least 3 or 4 VB's every week. The park rod will pull out with the VB. If it won't come right out, rotate the rear driveshaft slowly until the park pawl lines up, the park rod comes free and the whole VB comes forward and out of the transmission. Reverse the procedure to reinstall... Just FWIW, I wouldn't put Lucas additive in the transmission. That stuff has ruined more transmissions than I can count...! My opinion on Transgo products is well documented. I won't bore you with it again...

I'm in the Spokane area. I still build quite a few transmissions for guys down in the Portland/Vancouver area, as that's where we are originally from. Let me know how I can help...

Yes, the transmission internals and, most importantly, the valve body MUST be built and calibrated for the application at hand.

I am pretty biased on this topic... But if I somehow lost the ability to build custom valve bodies overnight, I would buy Dave Goerend's. No hesitation...

Guys put Transgo kits in because they don't know how to build valve bodies. I see this all the time from 'transmission shop builders'. They 're-kit' the transmission and put a Transgo kit in it. They generally don't really even know what the stuff they are putting in even does...or why. If they did, they often wouldn't put it in there. Plus, there are a ton of mods to make in the valve body that a "shift kit' (Transgo or otherwise) will not address. But, no matter... I hope it all goes well for you and you enjoy your setup!

I can't say I blame you. I'm getting seriously tired of the noise of my 2000. It is quite fatiguing on a long trip. I may end up going a different direction myself soon.

I would definitely forego the Transgo in favor of a properly built valve body.

How you build your transmission depends entirely upon how much power (torque) it's going to have to deal with... In your case, you wouldn't need anything too fancy...just a solid build with good parts. Aside from what it takes to do a good, quality build (bushings, sprags, OD thrust bearings, gear train thrust washers, etc.) I would add an extra disc to the direct clutch, the forward clutch and the OD brake clutch using full thickness frictions and steels. I use only OEM style Borg Warner and Raybestos frictions and steels in the builds that I do. Pay very careful attention to clutch clearances, especially in the direct since clutch clearance directly affects the quality of the 2-3 shift. I would use a Raybestos Pro Series band. You can go with a full billet intermediate servo setup if you want, but it would be kind of overkill. The important part of the setup is a good quality servo cover that seals to the servo pin. These will leak direct clutch apply oil when they wear. Sonnax makes a nice servo cover with an o-ring to seal the pin. Make sure you use at least a reinforced band strut at the elevated line pressures that your valve body should provide. A billet lever and anchor are good, but not absolutely necessary at this level. Sonnax makes an excellent billet aluminum accumulator piston with two seals on each end to replace the ridiculous plastic OEM piece that are notorious for leaking like a sieve. I would use one of these as well. A Sonnax billet aluminum low/reverse servo piston is a good idea as well. If you want to go top-shelf here, use a Superior servo piston. I would have a reputable company build you a custom valve body. Be careful here. Do some shopping and research because many "built" valve bodies on the market are simply stock valve bodies with Transgo kits installed in them. You want someone who will tailor a valve body to your wants/needs and have the mods performed that a "shift kit" does not do. Speaking of "shift kits", I am not at all a fan of Transgo "kits". I have been very outspoken against them and the quality of their parts in the past. I'm not here to re-hash that. Suffice it to say, you will not see a Transgo "shift kit" anywhere near my shop... A good, properly built torque converter is absolutely critical to good performance, and is the single largest performance gain you will see in the entire package. I only run triple disc converters in the Dodges...period. Even the best single disc converter does not have enough clutch surface area to hang onto the torque of the Cummins, especially when towing. Many triple disc converters on the market will require the use of a billet input shaft due to their aggressive lockup...but not all. Much of this has to do with lockup calibrations in the valve body, especially in the 48RE, but it also depends upon the internal construction of the converter. Suffice it to say, I run a billet triple on stock input shafts all the time.

I'm trying to get some stuff together for you guys. Since a modified valve body is an absolute must-have for both performance and longevity, I have an in-depth 47RE DIY valve body tutorial almost complete, but I can't get the pictures to post from Photobucket. I'm absolutely NOT a computer guy, so I'm not sure what's up. Any help would be appreciated...

Should be fine. I've used a few of theirs over the years on some of the stuff that I don't have custom built. They seemed to work just fine. Good quality off-the-shelf stuff. No complaints...!

There is Precision Industries, and there's Precision of New Hampton. I've used quite a few Precision Industries converters behind the 7.3 Powerstrokes, and a few Precision of New Hampton converters in various applications. Both seem to work just fine.

I'm not trying to be critical or argumentative, but those prices are unbelievably expensive! $4800 for a transmission with stock shafts is bordering on ludicrous... It's also troubling to me that he hasn't taken the time to put together a complete itemized build sheet for each of his packages. I'd want to know what clutches he's using, and in what configuration, what band, what brand of servos, what he means by "constant flow, high pressure valve body", etc...

Yes, a billet input is a good idea in any scenario, but the myth that is floating around that you HAVE TO run a billet input if you're running ANY triple disc converter is simply not true... A good idea...? Absolutely...! Absolute necessity...? Depends upon the converter, but not in every case. I run two converters behind the Cummins on a day-to-day basis. Both are triple disc converters; the Stage 3 and the Stage 5. I don't run any single discs. The Stage 3 clutch is rated at 1200 lb/ft of torque, and the Stage 5 clutch is rated at 1600 lb/ft. I am not familiar with any of the dual disc converters, but I would say your logic is sound. My philosophy is to always run a multi-disc converter, and the triple disc is, by far, the most common configuration.

It would definitely be better than a single, but not quite as good as a triple, which is the preferred configuration in a multi-disc converter. You don't necessarily need to run a billet shaft with a triple disc converter. Some you should, yes, but not all of them...

Working on a few... What topics would people be interested in?

What kind of clutches did he "upgrade" to? I prefer to run OEM style clutch plates in every build.

The early 48RE's used a TV cable just like the 47RE. In '04.5, they started using the TTVA on the 48RE.

I'd be curious about the converter, too. Usually, they're either a single disc or a triple disc (ATS also builds a 5 disc, but it's not a very good setup). I only recommend and use triple disc converters behind the Cummins, regardless of its power output. Yeah, a lot of the cost in the 47RE/48RE builds is in good converter, input shaft (or other shafts), and many other hard parts that need upgrading. Yeah, I still occasionally build a 3 speed (TH350/TH400, 727, C4/C6) for guys around here. They're typically in the $700-800 dollar range, including a converter. But, they don't deal with anywhere near the same torque numbers that the diesels do...!