Dynamic

I've seen this issue many times, and it almost always has to do with too tight of a converter. I kind of figured they were using Transtar converters and Transgo kits, which tells me really all I need to know. I'm not trying to beat up on them necessarily, but I do deal with "local shop" builds a lot. It would be helpful to know what part number of converter they used. If they used an S4 or an S5, that's too tight of a converter. Believe me, I've been through the wars with those Transtar converters way back in the day, which is why I will only use specialty converter builders now.

I've never heard of Freeman Creek Transmission in Orofino, and I'm only a couple of hours from there. Oh well, I don't know everyone. Pressure is not going to stall the truck when you put it into gear, nor is a TV cable being out of adjustment. Set the TV cable for a 2900 rpm WOT 1-2 shift, and then leave it alone. And for the love of all that's holy, don't mess with the TV stop. That is set to a specific spec, and is not something to adjust. Your engine is seeing a load large enough to pull the engine rpm down faster then the fuel system can fuel it to stabilize the idle. About the only things that the transmission could do to cause that would be a stall speed that's too low, or something wrong with the converter; incorrectly assembled, failed stator sprag, sprag in backwards...something like that. A converter issue will typically be worse when cold because the fluid is thicker. I would love to know what converter part number they used. But, there's also the chance that the issue lies elsewhere.

You can set your truck up however you want. I literally could not care less. But just don't tell me that the information that I share with these guys is incorrect simply because you think I'm "brand bashing" the pan you own. I happen to have very good reasons for everything I share on here, including my opinion on the quality of a Derale pan. You are certainly welcome to have and share your own opinion. If you're constantly beating your pan against rocks and debris, then maybe you do want a flimsy pan...or maybe a skid plate. I see between 200 and 250 of these transmissions every year (and have for a couple of decades), and I can't remember the last time I saw one come in with a pan that had been bashed in by rocks or debris. So, to me, needing a pan that is a sacrificial lamb for a rock-to-the-pan scenario is not even on my radar. But, I could tell you stories of broken valve bodies and cracked cases due to case flex, and of torsional rigidity issues that were indeed solved by using much more rigid aluminum pans. I use pans to hold oil and to strengthen cases. If the deeper pans that I use happen to drop the operating temperature of a transmission, then great. But if I need more cooling for some reason, I will address the cooling system.

I "brand bash" Derale pans because they are flimsy, made of thin gauge metal, and I've had issues with them leaking, not because they don't strengthen the case. I simply don't like them, and won't use or recommend them. Feel free to endorse whichever pan you choose, but to say that the strengthening effect of a well built aluminum pan is a "side effect that isn't necessary" is not accurate. Most deep aluminum pans do use their extra capacity in their marketing (as would I if I were in marketing), but you can buy stock depth pans aluminum pans as well. What would be the purpose of that if it weren't to strengthen the case? Believe me, the strength gained from adding an aluminum pan is significant. But, what do I know...?

A "side effect" that isn't necessary? I could show you much evidence to the contrary...

What "shift kit" was used? What is the stall speed of the torque converter? VP44 trucks are notorious for not being able to fuel the engine quickly enough to catch the load of a converter with too low of a stall speed when cold. Plus, depending upon which "shift kit" was used (I'd guess Transgo if it was done by the corner transmission shop), there are a couple of things that can make it worse.

I'm not a big fan of the Derale pan. It will not really do anything to strengthen the case, which is the primary purpose of putting a different pan on it, plus I've had some issues with them leaking. They are very thin steel, and I'm just not generally impressed with it. The beefiest pan that I've seen is the PPE. That is the one that I'm shipping my transmissions with these days.

The main reason to use an aluminum pan is to strengthen the bottom of the case. There is literally no structure down there, and a good, heavy aluminum pan will strengthen the case by a pretty significant margin. The extra fluid capacity of a deeper pan is a nice benefit. It really doesn't matter if you have a filter extension or not. Some pans come with them, some don't. It doesn't really matter much. I don't really care how hot the fluid is getting, as long as it is being cooled by my cooling system. A good, well built torque converter, when working hard up around its stall speed will generate a lot of heat as it multiplies torque for you. Some guys like to watch the temp of the fluid coming out of the converter, and that's fine, I guess. But to me, it's fairly useless information because I know it's going to get hot (sometimes REALLY hot) while doing its job. I need to know how effectively the cooling system is removing that heat. That information comes from a probe in the pan. BTW, 157 degrees F is barely even warmed up yet. You DO need to have some temperature in the transmission. I like to see an operating range of about 150 - 190 degrees F. A transmission operating in that range is a happy transmission.

Depends upon a lot of factors, not the least of which being pump volume. By the time you get the 3 clutches on, pressure on both sides of the intermediate servo, and the converter locked, a 47RE pump is up near its capacity, especially if there are excessive losses in the system, and/or excessive clearances in the pump.

No, just a stock spring that's probably wound up a bunch, which can also be problematic. Most likely this guy's version of a "high performance" setup. It's not uncommon to have 3rd and 4th be a little different, especially with a 47RE.

Those are bone stock line pressure numbers. So, we're dealing with a stock valve body with a couple of Sonnax valves in it. It completely blows my mind how little some transmission shops actually know about how this stuff actually works.

The transmission doesn't know about, care about (unless it's slipping), or have the ability to sense how much power is coming from the engine...or Smarty settings, "TM" settings, timing adjustments, fueling curves, injector sizes, injector pop pressures...none of that. The transmission "knows" only one thing when it comes to determining when it's going to shift; TV lever position. The Smarty basically "creates" its power by advancing the OEM fuel curve so that you're getting the fuel that the OEM programming gave you at 100% throttle at much lower levels of throttle movement. How much it advances that curve will depend upon which "level" you have selected on your Smarty. Some programs also advance the injection timing, which will further exaggerate the issue. I had a Smarty on my 2000 Dodge and, quite honestly, it was one of the many things I hated about that truck. It gave the illusion of more power, but would smoke like the end of the world was coming if you weren't careful, and created a bunch of transmission tuning challenges. But, I used that truck to develop my valve body calibrations and pressure control strategies, so I guess it served its purpose. So what happens with the Smarty is that when the fuel curve is advanced like that, you will be making a considerable amount more power at a given throttle position than it used to with the OEM fueling. You may be making 100% of the power of the OEM curve, but at maybe 50% throttle movement (even less with some of the higher power levels). So the engine is producing 100% power, but the throttle (and the TV cable/lever) is only at 50% movement, so it feels like the transmission should be operating at max performance; running the shifts to near redline, and then popping into the next gear with a good, solid shift. The problem is that, at only 50% TV lever movement, it's not going to do that. So guys start messing with the TV cable, pulling them tighter trying to get their mid-throttle shifts where they feel they should be. But the TV system is designed to work properly within a pretty narrow window of adjustment. If you get it out of that window, trying to accomplish Lord knows what, pretty much everything suffers. When I'm always harping about the WOT 1-2 shift points, I'm using a quick, down-and-dirty method to get the TV system within that window of operation.

I do NOT recommend that you try to perform those test with anyone under the truck. You need to get some more hose. And, yes, you'll want to perform the test under actual driving conditions.

Set the TV cable so the WOT 1-2 shift occurs at 2900 rpm, and then leave it alone.

You can't check resistance on an active circuit. You'll get all kinds of useless readings. You're going to want to check voltage with the circuit active. Check for voltage on the signal side of the sensor. It will change with temperature. You shouldn't have any resistors in the circuit. You can check for voltage on the ground side (PCM side) of the OD solenoid. It should read battery voltage until the PCM commands the solenoid on. At that point, it will drop to zero (or near zero) voltage.

OMG... And they sold you an Aermet shaft? You don't even need a billet shaft at all at that power level. And 900 hp? Ummmm... NO. I'm going to shut up before I say something I might regret later, but this level of incompetence drives me to the nuthouse. At this point, I'd put a pressure gauge in the accumulator port and see what you have for line pressure. That will tell me a lot about what (if anything) has been done in the VB. You'll want to check: Pressure at idle (in Drive). Pressure at WOT at full stall while stationary (in Drive). NOTE: Do this in an area with nothing in front of you. Your brakes may not hold the truck. Just hold it long enough to get the reading and then let off. Pressure at all shift points under normal acceleration (1-2, 2-3, 3-4, TCC lock). Pressure at WOT shift points (1-2, 2-3, 3-4, TCC lock). Pressure at WOT with converter locked (this will give your max overall pressure with boost valve on). This may seem like a lot of info, but it can all easily be gathered in a 5 minute test drive.

Ughhh... And the prices these corner transmission shops charge people for these "built" transmissions. SMH... I digress... There are 3 Sonnax valves on the invoice, which basically aren't going to do much by themselves; certainly nothing that's going to do much for performance. If that's all that has been done to the valve body, then you don't have much by way of improvement. It's tough to offer much advice on band adjustment without knowing your line pressure, but 1.5 turns is too tight. I would start at 2 turns and go from there. I run my builds at 2-1/4 turns with a 4.2 lever, but then again, I build custom valve bodies for every transmission that leaves here. Why isn't the transmission shop that "built" it dialing this in for you? Why did they let it go with a massive 1-2 flare and a 3100 rpm WOT 1-2 shift point?

OK. TCS servo is good. How is the band adjusted? TV cable is too tight. Back it off until WOT 1-2 is between 2800 an 2900 rpm. What valve body work was done? Were all of the springs that came out of the intermediate servo put back in? Was there just one, or were there two?

What servo was used? What do you mean by "no slack" in the TV cable? How did you adjust it? At what RPM does your WOT 1-2 shift occur? EDIT: Also, how is your front band adjusted with that 4.2?

What's going on with your TV lever in that first picture?

Rubber gaskets are notorious for leaking. I would switch to a fiber gasket.

The fluid path to (and through) the converter is the same in forward and reverse. There is quite a bit more line pressure in reverse that in forward, but the charge to the converter is regulated at about 130 psi. As far a whether you're in forward or reverse, either one is going to provide a stationary input shaft for the turbine to drive against, whether it be from the forward clutch on and the low roller holding (forward), or the direct and L/R band on (reverse). The converter doesn't know the difference. The reason I asked about stall speed is that some guys (and some companies) can really get carried away with the low stall thing. I've seen guys running 500, 600 even 700 rpm below stock stall. There are VERY few scenarios where a stall speed that low would be a positive thing. It just makes a horribly lazy setup down low, and starts to introduce problems like stalling when cold. You can fight some particularly messy battles with stall speed on the P-pumps (12 valves) and VP44's (24 valve 2nd Gens). The common rails (3rd Gen) are much more forgiving, but still suffer with such a tight converter.

What torque converter are you using? Stall speed? VP44 trucks are notorious for stalling cold at times, especially with a stall speed that's too low. The valve body is really not going to make a difference. "In gear" is in gear, regardless of line pressure. Putting it in Reverse for 30 seconds is likely just warming up the fluid a bit.

You must have called when I was out of town. I'll check my messages again. Sadly, I don't always get them. So you're having trouble with manual 2nd? I would recommend putting a pressure gauge it and then we can run some tests. That valve body was all kinds of screwed up. I want to make sure it's working like it's supposed to. Anyway, give me a call. I will be off most of this week working on the new shop since we have some nice weather, but you can try to catch me, or I'll be back in the shop at the end of the week.

I don't remember hearing my phone ring. I could have helped you out...