Vais01

Seems we posted the same thing haha.

There are 2 types of SAC nozzle to my knowledge, one is known as cylindrical blind hole and the other as micro blind hole. Cylindrical blind hole nozzles will have a large sac of fuel left in it after injection which usually causes the smoky burn. Micro blind hole nozzles will have a very tiny sac volume after injection and does not create a smokey burn. Another thing that helps is the correct spray angles which on a Cummins ISB 235 is 153 degrees. DFI uses a slightly narrower spray angle at 150 degree (not sure is this is all of DFI SAC injectors) this has a benefit when you begin using tuners because it will help keep the fuel in the bowl where it should be rather than making hot spots on the piston crown. The injector pintle seals the nozzle above the orifices, this offers strength but also a greater tolerance to contaminants. A SAC injector also will not get something known as (for lack of better term) pintle drift this is due to the injector sealing above the orifices. This means as the pintle is being pushed down by the spring to shut the pintle drifts over slightly causing the nozzle not to fully seal for or causes a delay to fully seal. This can happen from the beginning or after several thousand miles. A VCO injector (Valve Closed Orifice) is what is used in stock applications all the way up to some fairly wild applications but has been known to crack once sizes go over 7x.010(150 horsepower) some have no problems all the way up to 7x.011(200 horsepower). To seal the injector pintle seats against all the holes in the nozzle. This can cause a number of possible issues over time or right from the beginning. VCO nozzles over time or right from the beginning can have pintle drift which of course would cause a rough idle, poor performance and possibly fuel in oil. Although this can happen it is not very common in stock applications but when the duration is pushed with a tuner this becomes much more of a potential to happen. The way these two injector nozzle designs spray fuel is very different from one another. A VCO injector spray penetration will be much greater meaning it produces a stream of atomized fuel from the point of injection all the way to the edge of the piston. A SAC injector spray penetration creates a dense atomized fuel spray over the top of the piston that has less spray penetration than a VCO nozzle design. This means the fuel is kept mostly over the piston rather than allowing the injector to spray fuel up to the cylinder walls potentially causing cylinder washout. In my experience my SAC injectors are just as clean as my big right foot allows . Keep out of the skinny pedal and you don't smoke any more than stock. A great source of info and lots of pictures. http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88662

This is great info and helps alot. If it died under acceleration trying to move the sled I would definitely have a look at your suction side of your fuel system. Something is not right, sounds like your getting air within the system. You may need to back blow the lines to be sure they are not plugged up. If you do this only use 10 PSI so you don't hurt anything and don't blow through the lift pump.

The guys over at DAP use a 153° injector nozzle so the spray pattern is definitely correct. Good to know that with marine pistons and DAP 125 SAC injectors the truck starts up in those temps.

I will say anything is possible but a good VP44 with enough supply pressure shouldn't cut out after a hard run. Just thinking about it a little more the VP nearly stops fueling when you lift from the throttle but comes back in and fuels before idle speed around 1100 rpm. This is leading me to believe the VP or something electronically is not commanding the VP to begin fueling again or it is hesitating. I'd have a hard look at the electrical and the fuel system something is not adding up. Does the truck have larger than stock fuel lines?

Your far from a moron good buddy. The fuel pressure gauge will also help determine if a filter prematurely plugs also.

Below zero Fahrenheit or Celsius? Larger injectors will start ok as long as they are not too too big. A 50 horsepower injector may be a better option if your worried about cold starts well below zero Fahrenheit. Another thing is keeping the batteries warm and using 5W -40 in those temps. A grid heater will also help tremendously.

I agree that location is critical. I wouldn't place it under the truck but somewhere on the firewall would work well enough to keep the temps down and not over cool the fuel. Ford 6.7 powerstroke also uses a frame mounted fuel cooler. I am not certain the 4th generation Ram trucks do or do not. I will replace my fuel line first and see what that does. The line itself is not quality material and is not rated for any biodiesel so it degrades internally. This fuel line is the original from Airdog and according to them it's a proprietary line built specific to their requirements which sadly is false. I've never heard of a pump firing in reverse but then again electronics can do funny things. Still the VP could not go into full reverse mechanically because it is engine driven but the timing could go pretty far off but I am not sure how far the ECM would allow it to go. Like I said electronics can do funny things.

If they are rated for 75 horsepower they will be very close to that rating. I would recommend DAP or DFI injectors with full confidence. I personally use DFI 7x.009 SAC injectors and love them but to make full use of them a larger turbo than the HX35W would be a must. A 75 horsepower injector would be on the maximum of what the charger could handle and keep EGT'S manageable. If you go the SAC injector route I would recommend a 50 horsepower injector due to the way the injector flows. A SAC injector will act and feel like a much larger injector and is a very strong injector. Either way you should be just fine and you will enjoy the added power and economy over stock once the excitement subsides.

I will agree the temp sensor may be a little off but I do not believe it is that much. A stacked plate cooler can drop the temps a full 10 degrees but unfortunately I have yet to find one of appropriate size to accommodate 2.5 GPM and reduce the fluid velocity down to 1 FPS to adequately cool the fuel. I do plan on changing fuel lines so it's possible the new pressure side line will help reduce the temps. I will keep everyone up to speed on that in my own thread in the future.

I pulled the line and inspected it the seal face was good. The connector tube has even surface contact all the way around and is not leaking. The o-ring had a small cut almost missed it when I took it off to inspect it. Everything looked good tightened everything to full torque specs 28 ft lb on the head and 17.4 on the VP44 side. No leaks so far. If it weeps again I will have to pull all the lines connector tubes and recheck alignment. Cummins manual states the return side can see 10 psi so in reality that would be the next thing to check. If everything holds which it should I will leave it alone. If not I will inspect the return line circuit for obstruction or restriction.

Well gents I have replaced a connector tube o-ring it looks like it had a small cut in it on the inside that seals off the tube. So far so good no more leaking. Looks like I will be inspecting my connector tube o-rings whenever I buy new connector tubes with pre-installed o-rings.

That is too much duration and the VP is being bleed dry or the injection plunger fails to get a full load. All this will do is produce more smoke, heat due to poor atomization. I can set my Quadzilla on kill and dump the throttle after being wide open and it won't sputter or die. My turbo does not bark either just a whoosh of air back through.

Not sure what your seeing but if there are contaminants at the bottom of the jug I would stop and find out why. Not to mention quit pouring it in or using that product.

I did the switch at about 240K miles no issues except a small pan gasket leak due to loose bolts. All is well after a retorque and running Baldwin BD7317 filters.

I am very borderline to that temp at all times even with the 150 pushing at 17 PSI. Today after making a good drive to a shop and a few offices I had a fuel temp of 185 and a spike of 189 degrees F this is with roughly 26 gallons of diesel in the tank. I am considering finding a small fin and plate cooler to route the fuel through to try and drop the temps 20 degrees.

Ok pull the filters, check fuel lines, from the tank to the pump, if it has a draw straw you may need to drop the tank it is possible it was installed incorrectly causing a bubble and lastly as TFaoro said check the injector size although the only way I see this possible is if they are running a custom tune with a crap ton of pump stretch. If there is a Quadzilla there this is possible. Let us know what you find or if a Quadzilla is there. For Quad help PM me I'd rather not give out too many tuning parameters over the net.

Sounds like it has something in a line plugging it on the suction side of the lift pump or something is allowing air to be drawn into the system again this would be on the suction side. No codes mean she's starving for fuel. Check all your suction side lines from the tank to the lift pump. Industrial Injection Hotrod VP44 or someone else's?

Not necessarily disagreeing with the fact the VP44 has failed more than likely via temperature. The real question is how. The electronics package on the VP uses the VP44 body as a heat sink to draw out heat. As the overflow opens the heat saturated fuel heads for the tank. For us running a 150, our pumps will cycle the entire tank of fuel (if full) in just under 13 mins which may or may not be enough time to remove enough heat. Electronic solder connections can use various forms of low temperature solder that melt from 190 degrees F to the 300's depending on what solder type used 160 degrees may not be an issue but it's not a help if soft solder is used. If I have the opportunity I will pay recondoc a visit and go through a very in depth diagnostics and if he needs it a hand replacing that VP44.

Mr Mopar1973man last I heard from a pump builder is this is common due to high temps in the VP44. Chances are the the lift pressure was below 14 PSI. Fuel temp in my pump averages 160 degrees.

Have you attempted to pull the codes? You should find something. If you have nothing I'd suspect a mechanical problem not monitored by the PCM/ECM/TCM.

Not necessarily a VP issue. Several things can cause the truck to suddenly loose power or shut down.

Looking like a new VP. Seems the internal electronics have had enough. We will get you back up and running buddy.

What Doc means it the APPS reset.

No because this would then be causing pump cavitation or aeration. The problem is on the push side of the system.