SASQCH
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Everything posted by SASQCH
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Hmmmm, guess I'm playing catch-up here. You said "The only difference i see is that the timing is different between the old VP-44(which had no timing at all), and the new VP-44 (which does)." I was not aware of this. When did this electronics change take place?Have you considered that the voltage drop might be from a sudden load placed on the electrical system (electrical solenoid kicking on, faulty solenoid / wiring problem, or something) and the VR in the PCM is not responding fast enough to the load? Don't know how you could fix that if it's true. However, the voltage is not dropping below what your batteries can supply and that should be adequate for the electronics in the VP44. Just some thoughts.Jim
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Hi guys,Just thought that I would add my two cents here. I moved from Anchorage AK to Roundup MT last May. We have had a really mild winter here and I haven't had any stalling problems to speak of this winter or spring. I'm not sure if it's the difference in fuel quality or what.The stalling problems I had started after the triple lock trans and larger injectors were installed. Don't think at this point that it is a VP44 issue, but I'm not ruling that out yet.I have an IAT fooler installed on a sw so I can use the IAT or a set resistance to tell the ECM what I want it to think the OAT is. When I forget to switch it back to the IAT normal setting before shutting down, and it is cold out It has a real tough time starting and running until it finally reads the real IAT sensor. Jim
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In my experiance it has always been low pressure that causes the diaphragm damage not high pressure. Because of the way the pump is built there is support for the diaphragm if the supplied pressure is to high but no support to protect it from the high pressure side of the VP if the supply pressure is to low. That is why they usually develop a tear in the diaphragm when the factory lift pump fails and is not corrected in a short time.
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If you find that you do need a VP44 take a look at this site, I've done business with him before and his prices are good. http://www.dieselautopower.com/ owners name is Jacob Kidd. BY PHONE 951-377-4844 or 801-618-2151 BY EMAIL dieselautopower@gmail.com BY MAIL Diesel Auto Power 577 N. Main st Kaysville UT 84037 U.S.A.
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If your truck is running fine other than the hard starts I wouldn't be thinking about replacing the VP44 until it displays more problems or just outright fails. If you are at all mechanically inclined and have access to a garage and tools you can replace the VP44 in less than a day your self. I believe there are some real good instructions on Milks web site http://articles.mopar1973man.com/2nd-generation-24v-dodge-cummins/25-fuel-system/126-bosch-vp44-injection-pump-replacement Haven't priced rebuilt VP44 in a while but I'm guessing around $1,000 exchange. All VP44s have to be rebuilt by bosh cert places unless it comes from china. I'm sure that if you started a new thread asking where is a good place to ger a good VP44 you would get lots of replies. Any VP44 you get today is a reman. You will need to know whether your pump is a SO or HO if the truck is a automatic trans it is most likely a SO pump.
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The stock programming in the ECM turns on the LP for a second or so when the key is initially turned on. this builds the pressure that causes hard starting with an aftermarket LP running pressures over 10 PSI. To resolve this you can put on the switch to disable the LP until the engine starts (I believe Mike has the diagram for it) or you can find someone who has a SMARTY and have them put a SMARTY tune on your ECM then Put the stock program back on the ECM. What this will do is disable the initial one second pump run and also turn on the cold weather high idle and the 3 cyl high idle features. It should solve the hard start problem for you. Or as an alternative go to a dealer and pay $100 for them to do the same thing if you can convince them it can be done (they are usually in denial about the initial pump run and high idle features). I have a SMARTY and have done this on my 98 and a few others. I'm in Roundup MT so if you wanted to stop by I would do it for you, but it seems like a long drive from where you are for just that.
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Well as the weather warmd here in Alaska my truck was getting worse and worse with the stalling when put in drive and then also in reverse. It was also getting harder and harder to start where it would spin sometines up to 10 seconds before firing off. I have an IAT fooler on the truck so I started playing with different IAT temp readings by adjusting the pot on the fooler to round 100 degrees when the actual IAT reading was over 140 because the truck was warm and had sat for 15 minutes. I found that it started much easier when the electronics thought the IAT reading was around 100 degrees. I still had winter blend fuel in the truck and the tanks were almost empty so I went and filled them with fresh summer blend fuel. I then hooked up the trailer with about 8K load in it and drove 50 miles and stayed with friends. The next morning the truck fired right up and no longer stalled when going into gear. It hasn't stalled since that was three days ago. This re afferms what I have experianced now for three springs. At least with my truck the winter/spring time stalling is caused by the fuel blend available here in Alaska. The problem may be exaserbated by the triple disk converter and larger injectors but the base cause is in the quality of fuel. I never had a stalling problem until the ULSD fuel was mandated. Jim
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The DPDT switches I have used had 6 solder contacts on them. The two in the center were the common contacts and switched to the two on the right when the toggle was moved left and switched to the left when the toggle was switched to the right. I suppose that the one you have could be built so it switched to the left when toggled to the left and to the right when switched to the right, not seen one like that yet though. Check it out with the meeter and believe what the meter tells you. Jim
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balsip: I think you are making the assumption that the vp44 somehow meters the volume of fuel being injected and only injects that volume regardless of the injector size or duration of the injection cycle. I think with further checking you will find that the VP44 injects the volume of fuel based on an injection cycle time. Therefore, with bigger injector holes or more holes more fuel is injected in the same injection cycle time frame. The ECM regulates the injection cycle time frame based on several sensors one telling it the engine RPM (CPS) and the other telling it the throttle position (APPS) it uses these readings to locate in the fuel map how to change the injection cycle time frame to achieve the RPM requested by the throttle position. So in essence what you are saying is true but not in the way that many people would think. There are other factors that affect atomization than just the number of holes or hole size. Hole position, smoothness, and angle are important for proper atomization and probably have the greatest effect. Earlier timing of the injection does not necessarily mean better efficiency and mileage. I think that Mike has proven that with the IAT fooler. With colder intake temps the ECM advances the timing in an effort to warm the engine (combustion occurring earlier causes the engine to fight the compression stroke and retain more heat). When the fooler comes into play and feeds the ECM info that the intake air is over 130 degrees the ECM retards the timing giving better winter mileage. As I've said before some claim better mileage with larger injectors but many get worse mileage. I would like to think that those of us that get worse mileage just don't have as good of driving technique as those that get better mileage. I for one just cannot seem to get as good mileage readings with larger injectors than stock no matter how carefully I drive. Jim
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The injector is purely mechanical and cannot affect timing unless the pop pressure is lowered below 300 bar. below 300 bar the injector opens earlier in the cycle (read nanoseconds) and will marginally affect the timing to be earlier. earlier timing is NOT necessarily a good thing and can cause poorer mileage because the explosion has to fight the upcoming piston. It can also cause overheating of the piston. Injectors with more holes have slightly smaller holes than injectors with a lesser number of holes. If you dump in more fuel than there is air to burn it you ger the black smoke. But good luck with it.
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Keep in mind that you can tell when a salesman is not telling you the truth, because his lips are moving. Of course the sellers of a product will make claims of bigger better etc. they are trying to sell their product. Will they guarantee it and give you your money back + the cost of shipping when you don't get better mileage? No, they will say you are driving differently because you have more power now and that is what is affecting your mileage or ask you to prove worse mileage. Usually once the sale is made they don't want to hear any more about it. I have had +80 injectors and lost mileage, I currently have RV275 (about +40) and got some mileage back. My best mileage was with stock injectors. That's my experience with larger injectors. The larger the injector the more fuel they dump in when they fire, stands to reason as they have larger holes in them or more holes. the VP44 puts in more fuel by increasing the length of the injection cycle, not by changing the pressure. At a given pressure only so much fluid can be put through an injector in a given amount of time, so the larger the hole size the more fuel will be injected. Some say they gained mileage with larger injectors maybe they have I don't know and it has not been my experience. If they have there had to be some inefficiency in the engine setup that the larger injectors solved to give better mileage. No two engines are exactly the same and most of the people on the forum have modified their setups for more power which usually results in poorer mileage. It takes fuel to make power and less fuel to make better mileage, you can't have both at the same time. That's one reason the programmers are so popular, they only increase fuel consumption (more power) when you ask for it. bigger injectors give more power all the time. That's my worth. Jim
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New injectors may help a little if you stay stock or go to RV275 injectors, but usually only if your current injectors are worn out or very dirty. Tire size, tire pressure, and tread design make a huge difference. Driving habits make the most difference, if you drive like a nearsighted grandma easy on the fuel and slow on the brakes using the techniques the big rigs use you will improve your mileage the most. Automatics get worse mileage than standard transmissions unless you high rev the engine in every gear with the standard. Automatics get poor mileage until the TC lockup happens then they get better mileage but still not as good as a standard because of more internal friction in the trans. Rear end ratio makes a difference also. The condition of the vp44 and fuel pressure to it also make a difference. A clean air cleaner makes a huge difference. All of the above and much more contribute to your mileage. Average????? no one is average. Jim
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I would be checking the engine and transmission mounts and all the cross members first looking for broken/loose bolts and mounts. Then I would be checking the u-joints and spring hangers. From what you have said something is broken or not tight causing the jumping around and shaking. Also check the fluid levels in the drive train. There is also an outside chance of internal rear end damage.
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This exact question has been asked and answered hundreds of times on this and many other forums. Answer number one is by brute force with a gripping device like a channel lock pliers on the rod from the actuator to the waste gate arm. there is considerable preload on the waste gate so don't expect that it will be easy. Answer number two take your turbo off the truck and remove the circlip and pull the rod off of the arm and see if the arm is bound up or will move. However with this method you have the problem of how to move the rod enough to get it back on the arm, so it isn't recommended. Answer number three depends on whether you have an HX35 or a HY35 turbo. if there is a metal tube connecting the waste gate actuator to the compressor housing you have an HY35 and cannot do this one. if you have a rubber tube making the connection then take the end of the tube lose from the compressor housing and apply regulated air pressure slowly increasing the pressure up to 25 psi max. At around 18 psi the waste gate should start to open. If it hasn't opened by 25 psi the waste gate is stuck. Answer number four build a 4" pressure cap from a PVC pipe cap and a rubber sewer boot with a hose clamp (someone on here has pictures of one) for the turbo inlet and again use regulated air pressure to actuate the waste gate ans in # three above. With this you can also check the integrity of the whole intake system for leaks. Another idea I had but have not tried is to use a length of 14 gauge soft copper wire, hook it over the waste gate arm like a J hook would attach and attach the other end of it to the waste gate actuator bracket. then take the truck out and drive hard to bring up the turbo pressure open the waste gate and stretch the hook in the end of the wire which you could check after the run. If it don't straighten out the J either you don't build enough pressure to open the waste gate or it is stuck. Jim
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Hey, guys. If you use a solid J hook as has been shown in this thread you are completely disabling the waste gate and that could be expensive if you overspeed or over pressure the turbo. The commercially produced J hooks have a sprinig that adjusts so the waste gate can be adjusted as to when it opens. Do a google search for "J hook for turbocharger" and you will see what I am talking about. If it was safe to use a solid hook the companies that build them commercially would not put a spring load on them. Just my opinion. Jim
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Now I don't know but I think that the electronics in the VP44 make the final fuel calibrations based on the fuel temp sensor and the information sent by the ECM from its fueling maps and adjusted by the ECM based on the readings from the APPS sensor, IAT sensor, MAP sensor, and coolant temp sensor. In other words I believe the VP44 electronics uses the fuel temp sensor to make the final adjustments to the injection cycle. I doubt that the VP44 electronics sends the fuel temp to the ECM and waits for the info to come back to do the injection cycle. Now it may well send the fuel temp back to the ECM after the injection cycle is finished. It surely would be interesting to know exactly how it calculates it all and where, whether it's done in the VP electronics or the ECM electronics or both. It would make it easier to figure out how to make adjustments for better mileage.
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I have been running a FASS 95 Without the stock filter and fuel heater for years and can tell you that the cold fuel didn't improve my mileage at all and I live in Alaska. The IAT fooler did improve the mileage. I've been working on a fuel heater design using engine coolant but don't have it worked out all the way. Lately I've been thinking of trying to use the factory filter top that has the heater element in it and machining a dummy bottom to just use the heating element to see if that helps the mileage by heating the fuel. Now if I can find a chunk of aluminum big enough to fit I will turn it in my lathe.Jim
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If you have no codes, and you have determined that the system is not getting air into the line. The hard starting may be because of high fuel pressure to the vp44 before engine start. If when you turn on the key and the fuel pump runs for a second or two this could be the cause it's called a prime run. There are several possible solutions, you could put in a relay that is setup to eliminate the initial prime run of the fuel pump. I believe Mike (Mopar1973man) has plans for it. Or you could go to a dealer and have the latest greatest ECM flash done that turns off the prime run. Or you could find someone near you that has a smarty. With a smarty you would flash a smarty program to the ECM then flash the ECM again to put the stock program back to the ECM. The smarty not only turns off the prime fuel pump run but it will also enable the cold weather high and 3 cyl idle for you.
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I'm not sure what brackets you are talking about. When I changed out my manifold, I was able to reach all the bolts with some difficulty after I had removed the turbo. Havn't had to do anything since because the 3 piece manifold compensates for the expansion differences between the head and the manifold so the bolts stay tight. I have checked #6 several times but it isn't easy to do. Jim
