pepsi71ocean

Hey Guys, Pepsi here with another article. This one I feel is pertinent for diagnosing transmission issues. I've compiled this from a few of my articles and some more threads. I also got help from my one friend Mitch who was nice enough to copy a ATSG manual for me. ALWAYS THE FIRST STEP…. CHECK YOUR DAM FLUID! Ha, yes you guessed it most times low/high fluid levels will cause tons of issues, its best to check your fluid first. Checking your fluid can save you a ton of time and agony especially if you’re following gremlins around. So to check your fluid you must part on level ground and idle your truck in NEUTRAL not Park or any other gear. Check to make sure your fluid is between the two sets of dots, either the lower set or the upper set. Also take note one says “COLD” the other “HOT” this is in reference to your transmission temperature. It’s best to have a warm engine and warm fluid when measuring hot marks. Now that you've done this, This next section will be of use in understanding what clutches do what and when. If you identify your issue from here great if not then well get to testing pressures. Shorthanded Diagnostics… The rear clutch is applied in all forward ranges (D, 2, 1). The overrunning clutch is applied in first gear (D, 2 and 1 ranges) only. The rear band is applied in 1 and R range only. The overdrive clutch is applied only in fourth gear. However the overdrive direct clutch and overrunning clutch are applied in all ranges except fourth gear. Examples… If slippage occurs in first gear in D and 2 range but not in 1 range, the transmission overrunning clutch is faulty. Similarly, if slippage occurs in any two forward gears, the rear clutch is slipping. Applying the same method of analysis, one note that the front and rear clutches are applied simultaneously only in D range third and fourth gear. If the transmission slips in third gear, either the front clutch or the rear clutch is slipping. If the transmission slips in fourth gear but not in third gear, the overdrive clutch is slipping. By selecting another gear which does not use these clutches, the slipping unit can be determined. For another example, if the transmission also slips in Reverse, the front clutch is slipping. If the transmission does not slip in Reverse, the rear clutch is slipping. If slippage occurs during the 3-4 shift or only in fourth gear, the overdrive clutch is slipping. Similarly, if the direct clutch were to fail, the transmission would lose both reverse gear and overrun braking in 2 position (manual second gear). If the transmission will not shift to fourth gear, the control switch, overdrive solenoid or related wiring may also be the problem cause. This process of elimination can be used to identify a slipping unit and check operation. Although road test analysis will help determine the slipping unit, the actual cause of a malfunction usually cannot be determined until hydraulic and air pressure tests are performed. Practically any condition can be caused by leaking hydraulic circuits or sticking valves. Unless a malfunction is obvious, such as no drive in D range first gear, do not disassemble the transmission. Perform the hydraulic and air pressure tests to help determine the probable cause. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Line Pressure Testing OK So now comes the fun part. You will need a pair of pressure gauges. I bought a pair of cheap Home Depot 0-300 psi gauges, and used some grease gun hose and then some nylon tubing to connect the two. As you can see on this chart that it mirrors the Shorthand Diagnostics section. Clutch and Band Application Chart Shift Lever Position Transmission Clutches and Bands Overdrive Clutches Front Clutch Front Band Rear Clutch Rear band Over-running Clutch Overdrive Clutch Direct Clutch Over Running Clutch Reverse X X X Drive(1) X X X X Drive(2) X X X X Drive(3) X X X X Drive(4) X X X Man (2) X X X X X Man (1) X X X X X Using this chart we can now know which test port to use for testing. Now for the testing phase. Here we can see the locations of the test ports on your 47re. Ports 1-4 are located on the Passenger side, Port #5 is on the drivers side of the transmission above the one transmission cooler line. Preparations Required..... So in order to perform these tests you MUST jack the rear axle up so the tires are off the ground, Block the front tires, and then unhook the the TV lever from the transmission side. When testing you want to watch that the accumulator moves in a smooth fashion, and that both ports are reporting where they should be. You will leave one of the pressure gauges on at the Accumulator port through tests 1-4. NOTES: -Built automatics will see different line pressures, all line pressures are for OEM transmission's. -Built Automatics will see roughly 75-90 psi at idle, and between 120 and 170psi in gear at WOT. Reverse will be over 250psi usually. -WOT Is defined as the TV lever being moved fully rearward into the open position. You should see a smooth increase of line pressure to the maximum. Test One:[Manual 1] This test checks pump output, pressure regulation, and condition of the rear clutch and servo circuit. This test is performed in M1 at 1000 rpm. Line pressure at the accumulator port should be 54-60psi at idle, and gradually increase to 90-96 at WOT (wide open throttle). Rear servo port should have the same pressure within 3psi. Test Two:[Manual 2] This test checks pump output, line pressure and pressure regulation. This test is performed in D2 at 1000 rpm. Line pressure should be 54-60psi at idle and gradually increase to 90-96psi at WOT. Test Three: This test checks pressure regulation and condition of the clutch circuits. This test is performed in D with the O/D switch off at 1600 rpm. Line pressure at the accumulator port should be 54-60psi at idle, and gradually increase to 90-96psi at WOT. Front servo pressure should be the same within 3 psi. Test Four: This test checks pump output, pressure regulation and the front clutch and rear servo circuits. This test is performed in Reverse at 1600 rpm. Pressure at the accumulator port should be 145-175psi at idle, and gradually increase to 230-260psi at WOT. Test Five: This test checks governor operation by measuring governor pressure response to changes in vehicle speed. This test is performed in Drive between 0-30 mph. Governor pressure should be 0 psi at 0 mph, and gradually increase approx 1 psi for every 1 mph. Current Version 1.0 Written by John Armstrong Jr. 01/20/2019 View full Cummins article

Call and ask for a bigger spring. I'm running a FASS 150 spring in my fass 95. It took some cutting but I to my spring down to 18psi at idle, and even under the heaviest acceleration I don't see much of a drop, and that was 35,000 or so miles ago.

The noise isolator is a band-aid fix, and the alternator will blow the A/C past the diodes at certain rpm's and frequencies. Its best to get to the bottom of this before you kill the PCM/ECM/and VP-44.

Then you need to line pressure testing to see if your even getting pressures out of the valve body. If you are then you can pinpoint where your issue is. Yes I haven't finished that article, but I'm close. The best I can say is to hope that your issue can be patched and your up and running long enough to get a few jobs down to make enough money to get it built the right way down the road.

Stock these O/D units were very weak, and there is no tow haul mode for the 47re series trucks, (Unlike the 48re series). In fact the 48re with the actuator's were a completely different animal with different tables for downshifting and such for load adjustment, unlike our 47re's. Even so the 48re series valve bodies were totally different. Even so custom valve bodies on 47re's are capable of lock up on all 4 forward gears. Often times the 3rd and 4th weren't that stout, but the O/D off was required when towing, it even said so in the book. But that's because the clutches could barely hold the stock power.

No tow/haul is just a way of locking out O/D. Which isn't necessary if you have a built auto. As far as I know the only way to clean a TC out is to cut it open and clean it. Then it needs to be re-welded back together, and balanced. A Valve body will have to come apart into the 3 sections and cleaned manually. Just don't loose the balls or their location inside. If you have access to a dunk tank and can get the inside clean do it as well when you go to do your rebuild. What do you mean by the trans cooler? @TheGreatWhite I'm really curious as to what you are talking about. Yes there's an endless supply of parts to shop for, thats where you'll loose me as I haven't much experience in that.

Its not that it is necessarily cheaper, but there are differences, such as the number of planetary gears in the O/D housing between the 47 and 48's. Most builders upgrade these just because. Different types of clutches and steels that are used to hold additional power. You don't want a set of clutches for racing application as they won't last, rather-wise daily driver and towing are different. There is more then one way to skin the cat for upgrades onto a transmission for extra holding power, but the last time I checked the profit margin on the rebuild on a built auto is about 1,000 or so, the rest go into parts. That aside, here's my main concern. I would question the current TC and the internals in the transmission. The guy said that it was slipping, and now has no forward gears, that tells me that the rear clutch is most likely burnt. If this is the case, then that material is all through the transmission, and no doubt inside your TC as well. If you reuse it, your going to be risking dumping materials into your new transmission, and then if there are metal fragments, you run a risk of getting stuck valves in your new valve body.

A good triple disk converter, billet input and a flex-plate is a minimum if your looking for 500HP. I would also add in the extra steels and clutches and get your line pressures adjusted after doing the shift kit. Sonnax makes a great valve that takes the place of the drilled hole, for park fluid circulation. When you have it apart don't forge to measure your tolerances, and pick up a good ATSG manual. I have a friend who just got done rebuilding a 46re for his 1500 pick up and it took him 2 months to rebuild, after finding out which parts could be upgraded, what had to be replaced after ripping it apart. Plus most re-builders upgrade some of the 47re parts and use the 48re's where they can for added stability. For me, it wasn't worth the aggravation, and in hindsight I wish i just shipped my trans out at first, instead of rebuilding mine. But there's a write up or two out there.

@TheGreatWhite I have this article here for you to do some reading, it's updated and has more information then what @kzimmer posted. Further line pressure diagnostics are required from there, However my advice having gone down this road is to just let a good builder do it. I do recommend Dynamic for this. Do it once and not worry ever again. I fought with my Built auto for years till I got it straighten out, enough to use it, and now I'm back to it again. I see. In this case then your gonna need to do line pressure diagnostics and then see what needs to be fixed. Even if so your gonna be dropping the pan, the valve body and the transmission. If you can rebuild a motor you can also do a transmission.

When going with larger injectors it may be behooving to have then set higher, so that you get longer longevity and they stay in the pop range longer.

I did Mike. I spoke to Dee yesterday over the phone about it. Also I believe Autocomputer is one word? She was also telling me about the issues people are having with getting ones from eBay that are defective out of the box where the parts guys are getting the money from the shipping fees.

UPDATE: I wanted to say that I did some calling around today and I decided to give Autocomputer Specialist a call as well; and see what they can do. I'm gonna keep track of this and keep you guys posted as I'll be writing up an article about these dang TIPM's. They want both the PCM and the TIPM and they want to go through them for me since it was the way that the headlights failed in the ex-gf's car. Add on a 3 month waiting list for a TIPM from Chrysler this is my alternative and I'm hopeful that ACS can get this fixed.

@digidoggie18 hubs are very easy to do. Even for me in a Jersey rust truck. I'm doing a write up for us rust bucket trucks as we speak.

Unfortunately the issue is the headlights stopped working, and not the fuel pump. thats why I'm really at a loss here. I am going to be doing some research on these guys and see if anyone has sent one in to be rebuilt. If they are reliable then I'd be happy about that. My ex can't afford $1,500 for a new one.

I have a 1/2 draw straw, and 3/8's from draw straw to fass, but I'm using marine grade fuel line for now. After i pull the bed this coming week I'll be converting it to 1/2 to fass and leave the rest at 3/8's. I see 18 at idle and 16 under load. as long as your above 15psi 80% of the time your fine. IMO people get freaked out about fuel pressure more then the temperature of the fuel.

Why do you have a 4 psi drop? I don't even see that with my fass 95 100hp injectors and my smarty turned up.

Hey guys, I'm looking for some input on your luck with TIPM's. Specifically if you have had your TIPM rebuilt? Or have you had sucess in pulling one from a Junkyard? I'm actually dealing with a bad TIPM in a Chrysler 200, however I've had no luck with a replacement from Dodge/Chrysler(national backorder). Nor does Rockauto/Pepboys/Autozone/ sell them. I've found websites online that list them as back ordered as well. Its been almost a week and I need to have this other car up and running, but I'm looking for input about rebuilding/or Junkyard ones and If you guys have and any luck with this issue. I'll be writing up an article about this as well afterwards if I do have luck with this as I'm sure someone else will have to deal with this. Unfortunately, I contacted some of the companies in my famous PCM/ECM re-builders article only to find out that they don't rebuild TIPM's.

I'll throw in my two cents here since your in NY. Your pressure will drop if your running tight filters. Anything over 15psi is good, but keep it under 20. My fass 95 would routinely see a drop in pressure when its cold out and your into the 20's. I learned this, and since the weather dropped ion the last week I think it's well worth mentioning this. better have to have a larger micro filter for winter use, and a tighter filter up in the engine room. As for me I have my T fitting with a shut off valve, followed my grease gun hose to protect the line, up into the cab followed by 1/4' air line hose with compression fittings armed with the brass sleeves. i haven't had any issues with this set up since I've done this. I highly recommend the grease gun hose for the road debris!

I've suffered this for years, but it wasn't I replaced everything that i stopped having issues. It maybe worth looking to see if your calipers are binding, or the ABS computer is playing games with you.

My wheel hubs are Timken I hope they work!

@Mopar1973Man I think its about time to publish my smarty article.

I do believe that the cause for this is because the throttle doesn't move in acceleration on SW3, however with the timing on 3 your getting the timing with just more fuel and boost fooling. I never noticed a smoke issue on SW3. Once you reach SW5 then the throttle starts moving faster on the APPS sensor. You do bring up a good point that your empty. When I publish my smarty Article I'll most likely link to this thread here. Thanks for you input @Dmaney. I hope you get your smarty to update. it took me a few tries to understand how it works too when copying to my smarty, but I just needed one of the USB cords that go into my stereo I bought from Best Buy.

See post below? Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the cam profile on the CR trucks also play a roll in blowing the head gaskets? I have always believed that the in-cylinder EGR that was done with the the aggressive cam profile on the exhaust side was causing pressure spikes? Can you tell me where you got this from, I believe if this si true I should update my article to reflect this.

@Tractorman I thought I should mention that SW#1 is the fuel saver program. So you will have a good timing rattle due to the aggressive timing. That's why they say you should start with SW#3. I didn't think of it till today when I was looking back over my notes here. I thought I should mention that heavy tiring shouldn't be done, although I don't know what the definition of aggressive timing is on SW#1 since Nick didn't do a chat for it #i think#.

keep me posed on your results. Thanks @Tractorman