Sudden loss of all power

[jamman]

Merging onto highway, truck running just fine. Get to 55-60ish and sudden loss of power, not decreased, nothing. Rpms looked ok, think i hit it to see if it revved, but now I cant remember if it did. I remember thinking that i just lost my trans. But in tbe dame moment my engine was dead. I was only trying to stay safe and no longer diagnose. As i coastef up different offramp, i had it in N and tried to start.cranked but no start.

Stopped it, i turn key on,i hear a motor upfront. Try to start. Engine cranks, but doesnt start. W key on, i am reading no oil presure on OEM gauge. Well, needle just comes up a little but is still touching red zero line.

Oil seems ok, trans fluid seems ok, adiator is cool and full of coolant and temp gauge says 140. When I turn key off then on, i dont hear any motors in the rear like a fuel pump.

 

Ideas? Did my Fuel pump give up? Vp44?

I have basically zero tools. I would have to go home. I do have my OBDLink MX and phone. But I dont seem able to get the codes off it usong turbo. I will even take help w that. I think i have the obd software on here, but jave to go look. LG G2 phoneand have turbo free on it.

 

Currently sitting safe at a gas station 3 blocks or so fromw where i stopped. Had my chains and a couple guys pulled me here.

[Hawkez]

Check for codes.  Did the check engine light come on?  Even if it didn't you may have codes.  I have an OBDLink as well and you should be able to pull codes with that.  Can you hear your LP running when you bump the starter.  Your VP44 may have went but you can start with the simple stuff first.  You need to check fuel pressure coming from the lift pump. How is your fuel filter?

Where are you located?

Edited March 22, 2016 by Hawkez

[jamman]

11 minutes ago, Hawkez said:

Check for codes.  I finally got it to pair up. It says there are no codes.

Did the check engine light come on?  No, no lights ither than usual.

Even if it didn't you may have codes.  I have an OBDLink as well and you should be able to pull codes with that. I cant seem to find any.

 Can you hear your LP running when you bump the starter. I am not positive what we are talking about. I bump tje starter and there is a buzzing/spinning for 10secs or so after I do.

  Your VP44 may have went but you can start with the simple stuff first.  You need to check fuel pressure coming from the lift pump. How is your fuel filter? I will try and see. No toolbox here. I will scrounge and look. Fuel filter hanging on driver side, that is the one you are asking about? I will upload photo of replacement U picked up other day, never got to install, but seemed a touch short and wide for what I temember of fuel filter.

Where are you located? Currently NE of Joplin, MO

Thanks!

And found that Isquirreled a basicsocketset andmy haynes manual in the truck. Breaking open the fuelcanister up front to checkand make sure no blockage there once I review the manual.

[Hawkez]

I'm not familiar with that filter so I don't know if that is the correct fuel filter.  Your fuel filter housing, if it is stock, is on the driver's side near the back of the motor.  Your lift pump may be just to the side of that, unless your LP is in the tank.  When you bump the starter  you should hear a buzzing for about 25 seconds.  That is your lift pump.  You need to verify that you are getting fuel from the pump.  You can crack the fuel lines at the injectors to verify that you are getting fuel up there.  If you are worried about your IP, you can do the hot wire test. That is pretty easy but you will need some test leads.  Without tools you aren't going to get very far.  Once you get all of this sorted out you ought to consider a FP gauge inside the cab.  You'll get it figured out.

[jamman]

Wow, i was off. Bump, buzz...25secs. I timed it.

 

I will crack open an injector or 2 and see if we are getting anything.

I borrowed a tiny crescent. Got the 3rd injector from the front to finally let go. Have a screwdriver wedged just enough in the line so the tip is out of the seat for it. Reconnect battery and connector at bottom of filter/seperatir....bump....buzz....no fuel.

 

Gonna attack that filter/separator. But no registered oil pressure when I turn on the key bothers me.

An yes, agteed on FP gauge. Only now was getting money to do that stuff. Been a loooong dry spell that is finally breaking, but it is looking like not soon enough.

[jamman]

Ok...

As I said (I think) Igot the 3rd from front injector broke loose. It wasnt spurting fuel when i bumped the starter, but I had drained the filter/water separator and evidently had that a little low. I loosened the forward most bleeder bolt on the top of the separator. Bump starter and we get some fuel coming. Put that back on, loosen and remove most posterior and to the driver side bolt on top of separator. Bump. fuel, Fuel, FUEL! All over. Gotta love that 25 sec post off run.

We had fuel movingthrough injector while it was off. It seemed to move a decent amount thru. Then replace injector tip and finger tighten. Bump, bump, grind...no fuel coming out around nut. Loosen and still none.

My take...the fuel lift pump is working and seems to be putting out fuel. But filter is needing replaced. Fuel pressure is low/inconsistent. I dont know enough to say anything about VP44. I am #hoping# it is ok. 

I gave up for the night. I called and got a ride. May end up renting a car and towing the truck. But I guess tow home even though I dont know what to do next to test.

Thanks for the help so far.

[Hawkez]

any progress?

[notlimah]

What do you mean bleeder bold on the separator?

Seems like your getting fuel to the injectors, but keep in mind that you may have to actually crank the engine over to fully prime. Each truck seems to be a little different. One of my trucks will prime up to the injectors just by bumping the key and letting the fuel pump flow. The other I had to leave injectors cracked and crank the truck until fuel came out. Make sure you're closing off injectors prior to them spewing JUST fuel, no bubbles.

Hope you get her back on the road!

[TFaoro]

I moved this to the powertrain section now that it's no longer an emergency. Hopefully we can get you some more help here.

I'd say the first thing you need to do is test the actual fuel pressure where it enters the VP44. From there we can help much more.

[CSM]

Ok, in order of what you've been doing... back to front.  Need to verify good fuel flow to VP.  Does the tank have fuel in it?  The banjo on the VP 44 is a good place to check this, though it sounds like you've done so. 

If you have fuel to the pump, then I would definitely look for codes.  At minimum use the key method to check for stuff in the odometer, but if there are any you will likely have to use a scanner. 

If the fuel pressure was low too long on the pump, it might be a dead pump or brain dead vp44.  If you are lucky, you're out of fuel due to filter isssues and the fuel system needs bled to the injectors. I like cracking a couple injectors, you don't need to take them off, just crack and then tighten them down once there is fuel there while spinning the motor over.  

However, before declaring the VP dead, due diligence should be done on the whole system.  So check back in with what you got and we can go from there.  

 

Edited March 25, 2016 by CSM

[jamman]

3 hours ago, TFaoro said:

I moved this to the powertrain section now that it's no longer an emergency. Hopefully we can get you some more help here.

Thank you for moving it. I was going to ask how to get that done. But like always, when your vehicle goes down you are running and gunning. I worked 10 hrs, then went to look at a car so I can keep going to work. I just walked in and showered after a 15 hr day of it and going to have another 14-15 hr day tomorrow and a 12 hr day Saturday, so thank you!

I'd say the first thing you need to do is test the actual fuel pressure where it enters the VP44. From there we can help much more.

Tell me exactly how to do that and I will get it in motion. Are we talking screwing a pressure gauge in to top of filter/separator? If so, what kind and where do I get it? Install the fuel pressure gauge I so desperately need? (which I am still unclear what is the best route to go there).

3 hours ago, CSM said:

Ok, in order of what you've been doing... back to front.  Need to verify good fuel flow to VP.  Does the tank have fuel in it?  The banjo on the VP 44 is a good place to check this, though it sounds like you've done so.

--The truck was due for a fill up, but that means I was in the 10 gal area...maybe as low as 8 gals. I've been trying to keep fuel in there for cooling/lube. I have not touched the VP44 or a banjo nut. Only the "bleeder"(?) nuts on the top of the separator. I was tempted to get the banjos on top of it, but decided I better not until I looked into it further. I spewed the fuel out of those "bleeders" while I expectantly waited for that 25 sec post starter bump run time on the lift pump to expire!

If you have fuel to the pump, then I would definitely look for codes.  At minimum use the key method to check for stuff in the odometer, but if there are any you will likely have to use a scanner. 

--Used the OBDLink MX and it shows ZERO codes. Nothing.

If the fuel pressure was low too long on the pump, it might be a dead pump or brain dead vp44.  If you are lucky, you're out of fuel due to filter isssues and the fuel system needs bled to the injectors. I like cracking a couple injectors, you don't need to take them off, just crack and then tighten them down once there is fuel there while spinning the motor over.  

--Oops. I spun the nut off the 3rd one and pulled the line back to see what if fuel was coming. I started getting some fuel. But I finger tightened that nut back and no fuel slipping past. Should I loosen it a little and see what happens?

However, before declaring the VP dead, due diligence should be done on the whole system.  So check back in with what you got and we can go from there.  

--- I am HOPING something fierce that it isn't dead. I really hoping it is a badly clogged fuel filter that just finally gunked up and too low of flow that day.

-- Thank you for this article link!!

 

Edited March 25, 2016 by jamman

[CSM]

Doesnt sound dead with no codes, but possible.  The fuel coming out of the injectors should be pretty noticeable if its primed and the vp is working and primed.  

So if we work on the theory the pump just got starved from a bad filter and needs primed, you should be able to get it running with the article. If that doesnt work,  vp troubleshooting commences. 

If I recall,there is a failure of the vp that doesnt throw codes.  Some shaft failure or something... @Mopar1973Man knows about that and I dont know if there is an article for that.

[notlimah]

I may be misunderstanding you but it seems like you may not be bleeding fuel from the correct place on the VP44. They are banjo bolts that are attached to the VP. When looking down into the truck, the LEFT one is the VP44's return line and the RIGHT one is the fuel supply line and the one you want to bleed. As far as injectors, like it's been said before they just need to be a few turns (if that) loosened and you'll know when fuel is coming out steadily. Every time I've re-bled my truck it's started with at least 2 lines still cracked. It will run like crap for a bit but once you tighten them down you're good to go. 

So like CSM was stating, you have to start from the back and work forward. So start at the VP supply, then up to the injectors. If you're bumping and not getting any fuel to your injectors, trying holding the starter open for 10-15 seconds to get fuel up to the injectors. Once you see fuel you can get the injector bolts barely tight and she should start right up. From there just tighten down the injector bolts.

Hope this helps and if this is what you were already doing then I apologize!

***not my original pic***

[jamman]

You guys are great. I haven't been able to work on it all weekend.

 

Let me use these diagrams I just found to help explain what I did.

 

What I am calling "bleeder bolts" is most likely incorrect, but are found on the top of the fuel filter/water separator. In the VP44.jpg I've attached, they are the #14 bolts on the top outside of the F/W separator.

 

I have NOT touched the VP44. I was pre and post VP44. I did break into the injector that lies behind the #19 and #14 labels on that same diagram, not where they are pointing, but where those labels are on the picture.

 

No apologies needed from anyone on this! I REALLY, REALLY appreciate it.

[notlimah]

Ahhh ok that makes a little more sense.

 

So I can't remember if you said you were getting fuel to the rails or not. Might as well crack open the suction line on the VP and bleed that to make sure then go through the following. Make sure to have the injector lines backed off 2-4 turns, but not completely off. Bump the starter, if/when FUEL ONLY is coming out of an injector, tighten it down while fuel is still coming out. Eventually you'll go to bump it and it'll probably start, or at least start then die. From there you can snug the injector bolts up a little more to prevent fuel from going everywhere (I tuck shop rags underneath) but once the truck starts and stays running, get in there and tighten those down quick to keep the fuel mess down.

 

If for some reason bumping it isn't getting fuel to the rail, just crank and hold the starter for 10-15 seconds and fuel should make it then. With this method the truck will probably try and start but die. Once that happens put your injection line bolts just to the point where you can feel resistance by hand. This way should still bleed air and cause as little fuel spray as possible. 

 

Both my trucks primed differently so that's why I mention both bumping and cranking.

[jamman]

I finally got to work on it a little. I cahanged the fuel filter...much easier than it looked like it would be...and found this nasty sight below.

 

I put it back on and got onto what looked to me to be the low side supply to the VP44 at the banjo and loosened it. Bump the starter and run fuel through. The first time I didnt tighten it back while fuel was going since I was working alone.

 

I then bump the starter to prime system. Bump again. Then vrank. 10 secs. Wait and do something else for 1-2 mins, cranks 15 secs, wait 2 mins. I put in 8 more gals of ruel to bring tank level up a little. Crank for 20-30 secs. Nothing. Nothing is coming out around my injectors (1 and 3) that I had loosened up.

 

I was trying to follow the instructions in that bosch article.

 

Anything else to do to? Should I step back through yo proove it is or isnt vp? I didnt have a pressure gauge. I still am not sure how to put on in the various areas. I saw some video where the guy took a spare bolt w a smooth shoulder that fit into the top of the filter/separator then drilled a hole through the center, clamped on a hose and then attached a gauge to that. Is that what I need to do? Wagt about testing at the vp? On the backside of vp before rail? At injectors?

 

Any help is appreciated. I dont want to buy a VP!

 

Yes, the photos are troubling. New filters are stark white.

[notlimah]

Ok seems like your mixing up the bleeding steps a bit. Try this...

 

Tighten up everything at the fuel filter and loosen the suction (right side when looking down) banjo bolt on the VP, bump the starter a few times, it may take a couple times since it will need to fill up the filter prior to sending fuel to the VP but once it's flowing fuel out of the VP banjo, tighten it down once the airs out and then bleed the injector lines and do the same thing you were doing and see if that works.

Edited April 3, 2016 by notlimah

[jamman]

I will try that. I think my description wasn't right on. I got done and was a little ticked at the whole situation.

 

I did put the filter back together. I have bumped it to move fuel through. I then loosened the right banjo bolt on the VP, bumped the starter and got lots of fuel coming through. Bumped again and tightened while coming through. I loosened up #1 and #3 injectors and cranked. Nothing. Nada. I decided I was done playing in the diesel fuel and came in.

 

Maybe I should go through the whole process again just to insure that there isn't air in there. The fuel level in the filter/separator was down quite a bit after dropping it off. Maybe I wasn't as re-primed as I thought and the fuel on the banjo was deceptive.

 

Thanks for the help. 

[notlimah]

The way you describe that sounds right to me. How long did you crank for? I had to crank for 10-15 seconds and it tried to start, from there I finger tightend them down just to the point of SLIGHT resistence. That way the engine will hopefully fire up and you can get out and tighten things down. Obviously this is assuming it's by yourself.

[Hawkez]

How much are you loosing the connector at the injector?  back them off a turn or two and not just a crack.