Opinions on Amsoil and bypass filtration.

[AH64ID]

3 hours ago, Killer223 said:

you have NO way of knowing weather the valvoline or rotella or supertech use the same base stock as amsoil. 

 

Actually you DO... Amsoil is a group IV base stock and Valvoline, Rotella, and Supertech are all group III base stocks. So yes it is VERY obvious if you do the research. 

 

Who should read and comprehend? Try a little education, it may help. 

3 hours ago, Killer223 said:

i can show you 1000's upon 1000's a semi trucks running dino oil, towing in the mountains and hot desert and even the frigid north of Alaska using dino oil.

my statements are not misinformation,

 

 

Really!! Come on, let's at least compare fruit to fruit. Apples to apples is damn near impossible on this forum but fruit to fruit should at least be in the ball park. 

 

Please explain to me how you can compare OTR 900 cubic engines with 40-50qt sumps to the ISB? Look at horsepower:cubic inch, oil capacity:cubic inch, rpm band, and usage. They burn diesel and use the same spec oil but that's about where the servicing commonalities stop. Surely you have to know this, which means your throwing crap at the wall and hoping something will stick. 

 

It's just like trying to compare an OEM 480hp QSB Marine engine to a 325hp ISB in a pickup. The applications are so different that it's not really possible, even thou many of the parts are the same. 

 

As for the 650 hp ISB's those guys aren't ever making 650hp long enough to get the oil heat soaked. Most towing applications use about 375-450 at the most. 450 hp has long been considered the limit of the cooling and oiling system in these trucks. They don't have the ability to keep 650hp cooled and lubed on a sustained basis with OEM sumps and coolers. 

 

There have been some ISB's run high hp on the salt flats for land speed records and they have MASSIVE cooling systems for a reason. So again lets keep it fruit to fruit. 

 

3 hours ago, Killer223 said:

To summarize, Yes synthetics will help you if it's well below 0 and you start and drive your truck often at those temps, yes it flows better in cold climates. and it's better if you are going to leave it in for over 15K miles.

else its no better or worse then the dino oil in the appropriate weight for the climate you live in.

 

They also help with a load applied. There is a visual difference in a stand alone oil pressure gauge when towing with synthetics. The dino doesn't ever get close to the minimum pressure; however, the synthetic holds pressure better. That means it handles the heat better, which is what we want in a 450 hp application that has 359 cubic inches and only 12 quarts of oil. 

 

It's not to say that dino doesn't work for most users but synthetic can do it better at the extremes. 

 

 

Sorry for all the edit's... the quote feature is driving me nuts the last few days. 

Edited May 8, 2016 by AH64ID

[Killer223]

I'm not sure you have researched enough then. I like how they use superfluous words to obfuscate "qualified" not certified.

 

AMSOIL maintains formulation details as proprietary and does not divulge specifics regarding the type of synthetic base stocks used in its synthetic lubricants. AMSOIL developed the world’s first API-qualified synthetic motor oil in 1972 and has remained the leader in the synthetic lubricant industry by continually researching new technologies and demanding only the highest-quality raw materials. As the company moves forward with new technologies it is increasingly more important that this information remains proprietary. AMSOIL views synthetic base oils the same as it views additives, with each having its own set of unique properties. AMSOIL does not insist on a particular type of base stock, but insists on particular performance parameters. AMSOIL chooses whichever synthetic base stock or combination of base stocks delivers the desired result and tailors its lubricants to be application-specific (gasoline, diesel, racing, transmission, gear, extended drain, extreme temperatures, etc.). At the end of the day, the type of base stock used to formulate the oil is inconsequential; the product’s performance is what matters.

 

As I understand it the only one with group IV,V base stock is the signature series. All else are group III. XL and OE I believe are included in this group III. The HDEO is a blend.

 

Edited May 8, 2016 by Killer223

[AH64ID]

The AME is a group IV base stock, as is the HDD. Not sure which oil is the HDEO??

 

The blended oil was discontinued several years ago. 

 

AFIK the only group III's are the XL and OE; however, I haven't ever researched the CJ oils as I don't use or recommend them. I could see them being group III as the oil in stock pickups is generally contaminated with fuel before it's depleted. That being said with the 13+ trucks putting less fuel in the oil it may be worth looking at. 

[leathermaneod]

15 hours ago, AH64ID said:

AFIK the only group III's are the XL and OE; however, I haven't ever researched the CJ oils as I don't use or recommend them. 

Can you still get CI oils?

 

Also, would you mind posting links for where you get the info comparing the fleetguard stratapore to the dondaldson DBL7349? I'd like to read more about them for myself...

[AH64ID]

Yes Amsoil still makes and sells several CI-4+ oils. The AME is the one I recommend to nearly everyone. It's their Heavy Duty Diesel and Marine 15w-40. 

 

There are no links for the filter data. The data is stuff I have collected myself over the years from contacting the filter manufacturers. 

[leathermaneod]

1 minute ago, AH64ID said:

Yes Amsoil still makes and sells several CI-4+ oils. The AME is the one I recommend to nearly everyone. It's their Heavy Duty Diesel and Marine 15w-40. 

 

There are no links for the filter data. The data is stuff I have collected myself over the years from contacting the filter manufacturers. 

Thanks for the reply! I have a few more questions now. First, would you run that oil year round? Even with sub zero temps, sometimes with no block heater? Second, can you explain for me why the CI is better for our trucks than CJ? Third, what is the price per gallon on that oil? 

 

As far as the filters, just curious how long ago you contacted Fleetguard and Donaldson about that info?

[dorkweed]

FWIW;  I'm back running WallyWorld SuperTech 15W40 dino.  My truck is garage kept though.

 

238,000+ mile regards.

[AH64ID]

Yes I run that oil year round. It has a pour point of -40° F, compared to -22°F for Valvoline Premium Blue (Haven't I been reading about someone starting at -25°F without a block heater an this oil?? Ouch). The pout point on Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme (5w-40) is only -38°F, so the Amsoil AME is better off than the 5w-40 Extreme. 

 

I have started the truck in about -10° without a block heater and pressure builds very quickly. 

 

I think CI oil is better because it's still packing a higher Zinc/Phosperous additive package which is better for flat tappet motors. The CJ oil isn't going to ruin your motor, even the 16's still use flat tappets. The CI oil, in terms of Amsoil, is cheaper than CJ oil and also has a higher TBN so it will last longer in miles and months. These days my oil times out before it miles out. 

 

The AME retails for $39.70 a gallon but I can usually get it to your door for less than that. 2.5 gallon jugs are $96.50 retail, but again I usually get to the door for a bit cheaper, around $83/2.5 gal if that's all I were to buy. 

 

I have spoken to both Donaldson and Fleetguard within the last 18 months. 

Edited May 8, 2016 by AH64ID

[leathermaneod]

12 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

Yes I run that oil year round. It has a pour point of -40° F, compared to -22°F for Valvoline Premium Blue (Haven't I been reading about someone starting at -25°F without a block heater an this oil?? Ouch). The pout point on Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme (5w-40) is only -38°F, so the Amsoil AME is better off than the 5w-40 Extreme. 

 

I have started the truck in about -10° without a block heater and pressure builds very quickly. 

 

I think CI oil is better because it's still packing a higher Zinc/Phosperous additive package which is better for flat tappet motors. The CJ oil isn't going to ruin your motor, even the 16's still use flat tappets. The CI oil, in terms of Amsoil, is cheaper than CJ oil and also has a higher TBN so it will last longer in miles and months. These days my oil times out before it miles out. 

 

The AME retails for $39.70 a gallon but I can usually get it to your door for less than that. 2.5 gallon jugs are $96.50 retail, but again I usually get to the door for a bit cheaper, around $83/2.5 gal if that's all I were to buy. 

 

I have spoken to both Donaldson and Fleetguard within the last 18 months. 

Well thanks again for the reply and all the info. I must say you have me considering Amsoil if you can get a 2.5 gal jug to my door for $83. That would actually be about the same(maybe slightly more) as the Valvoline PBX 5w-40. Heres another question, in your experience does leakage/consumption usually go up or down when switching to amsoil? I ask because when I switched from Rotella 15w-40 to Valvoline PBX 5w-40, I either started leaking more, or using more, or both. So just wondering if anything is likely to change with the Amsoil? one more question, how long of an interval would you recommend with that oil and either fleetguard or donaldson filter? sorry for all the questions just trying to do thorough research since its almost oil change time again lol

[AH64ID]

Leaks are something that synthetics are "known" for... but it's really a myth, kinda. 

 

What happens with older engines is that cheaper oils don't clean the engine out as well so minor sludge starts to form. The sludge most easily adheres to corners and seams, especially if a little gasket materiel is exposed. The seal may be deteriorating over time but the presence of sludge will block the small leak. Then you switch to a higher quality oil, typically a good synthetic, and it cleans out all the old sludge (this also why the first synthetic change interval on a high mileage motor is often recommended to be shorter). So you have cleaned the minor sludge off the corners and seams and now a deteriorated gasket/seal is exposed to more oil pressure and/or flow and a leak develops. So the synthetic didn't cause the leak it just exposed an existing one. 

 

So you may experience this and you may not. The detergent package in Amsoil is a good one. 

 

In terms of oil change interval I typically recommend 15K miles or one year without a UOA. What does a typical year look like for you in terms of truck use?That is with the Donaldson filters as I think it's a much better filter. 

 

 

[leathermaneod]

Well I have only owned my truck for about 1 year and it was down for the count a lot of that time due to me being extremely OCD and trying to vastly improve it. I put about 8k on it last year. I do not tow at this time and it is basically a daily driver. Most of my trips are around 10 miles give or take which is one reason why I always went on the very short end of OCI's. 

[AH64ID]

10 miles can be hard on oil, but it may also be enough. Do you get to operating temp in 10 miles? If so for how long before shutting down?

 

A UOA may not be a bad idea at the 7,500 mile mark. That's typically where I do mine and then it gets changed around 9-11K. 

[leathermaneod]

In the warmer months I probably get up to temp in the first 5 miles so about 10 mins  or so before shutdown. In the winter though it's probably less. I had to adjust my route a little to help me get up to temp in the winter months lol. 

[AH64ID]

You do better than I do. Even in the summer my truck takes 8+ miles to get warm...

 

UOA is the best answer to determining OCI. 

[leathermaneod]

Well that was only a guesstimate lol it may be closer to 8. I have a rural highway for most of the drive though so I'm doing 60 or so. So that helps. 

[AH64ID]

My cam, coolant filter, and turbo don't help it warm up. It's by far the most cold blooded 5.9 I know. 

[leathermaneod]

Interesting. Mine has always been cooler than I thought it should be. New thermostat and rad cap helped a lot though. How do you have your coolant filter installed?

[AH64ID]

My coolant filter takes pressurized coolant from the aft most port between the exhaust manifold and cylinder cover. The return is into the heater core return which is on the suction side of the water pump. The flow is low; however, anything is more than stock and it made a noticeable difference in warmup times. 

[leathermaneod]

Why does the coolant filter increase the time it takes to warm up?

 

[AH64ID]

42 minutes ago, leathermaneod said:

Why does the coolant filter increase the time it takes to warm up?

 

It's the additional flow outside the block. While the coolant filter doesn't have a heat exchanger it does shed heat thru its surface. 

 

I have also found a huge different in warmup time based in the fan setting on the heater. I try to leave it on 1 until the block is warm.