Knocking sound.

[JAG1]

my 12 valve is running a wee bit different lately and has 425,000 miles w/ originals. What should I get for a stock motor to help it a little bit?

[Mopar1973Man]

you can do a mild upgrade like +50 HP or +75HP if you wish or go back to strictly stock injectors your choice.

[The_Hammer]

I'm probably going to get some 75hp injectors, would prefer 90hp but that's asking a lot from an HX35.

After paying closer attention I've noticed  that my truck hazes at idle and the fumes smell like raw diesel 

[Mopar1973Man]

Just point of reference... I know the nozzle size is way different but a +50 HP injector on my 24V plus the Edge Comp I'm at... (Red marks are my high marks)

 

 

So The Edge Comp is 120 HP plus the 50 HP injectors... Even adding it all up on calculator I'm getting 405 HP (235+120+50 = 405). Even my OBDLink LX shows nearly the same thing at the flywheel. I'm pretty sure you can use the +75 fairly easy +90 hp should work good too.

[The_Hammer]

16 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Just point of reference... I know the nozzle size is way different but a +50 HP injector on my 24V plus the Edge Comp I'm at... (Red marks are my high marks)

 

 

So The Edge Comp is 120 HP plus the 50 HP injectors... Even adding it all up on calculator I'm getting 405 HP (235+120+50 = 405). Even my OBDLink LX shows nearly the same thing at the flywheel. I'm pretty sure you can use the +75 fairly easy +90 hp should work good too.

Well it sounds like some 90's are in my future 

[Mopar1973Man]

I'm still using my HX35W turbo, 3" exhaust, and BHAF... Works good.

[The_Hammer]

14 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

I'm still using my HX35W turbo, 3" exhaust, and BHAF... Works good.

 

That's good to hear.

[Cowboy]

I have been running 7x.00105 DAP nozzles for the last while on the stock HX35 (mines a 12V too).  It took a little tuning but it turned out decent.  I'm in the process of swapping in some 5x13's though for testing as they should both flow the same.

 

Amongst the 12 valve guys we measure injector size by there hole count/size/angle.  If a place is selling them as XXhp injector but doesn't specify the details, look elsewhere.  DAP is typically where I get my stuff.  That being said, 145° 5x12's in either a SAC or VCO should do you well, and is enough to support 400 RWHP easy. 

 

FWIW, I have a pop tester and would be happy to help in whatever way.  

 

I'd imagine the OBDLink shows flywheel horsepower, just something to keep in mind.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Cowboy

[The_Hammer]

10 hours ago, Cowboy said:

I have been running 7x.00105 DAP nozzles for the last while on the stock HX35 (mines a 12V too).  It took a little tuning but it turned out decent.  I'm in the process of swapping in some 5x13's though for testing as they should both flow the same.

 

Amongst the 12 valve guys we measure injector size by there hole count/size/angle.  If a place is selling them as XXhp injector but doesn't specify the details, look elsewhere.  DAP is typically where I get my stuff.  That being said, 145° 5x12's in either a SAC or VCO should do you well, and is enough to support 400 RWHP easy. 

 

FWIW, I have a pop tester and would be happy to help in whatever way.  

 

I'd imagine the OBDLink shows flywheel horsepower, just something to keep in mind.

 

I was going to ask why some some places just list the HP instead of nozzle size, that seemed kind of sketchy to me.

 

I'm not familiar with the difference between a SAC and VCO injector, time for more research.

 

I had originally planned on running a set of 5x12's with a 62/65/12 turbo but that will have to wait for now. If I can run 5x12's without trashing the stock HX35 then that's what will I'll get and upgrade the turbo later.

 

I've literally been waiting YEARS to bump up the power but couldn't due to 47RE woes. Now that my trans is squared away I'm pretty excited about making some more power. 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

17 minutes ago, The_Hammer said:

I'm not familiar with the difference between a SAC and VCO injector, time for more research.

 

Here you go...

[Cowboy]

Carefull when purchasing injectors, especially 5x12's.  Some vendors will sell cheap marine 370's as 5x12's.  They are 5x12's but are the wrong 155° spray pattern, unless you have non-stock pistons you want 145°.

 

5x12's will be a good match for your 62 unless you want to go all out and squeeze every last bit of power out of it.  Then 5x14's will do a little better up top.

 

With the correct tuning, you can run basically any injector.  When it comes to tuning, look into the AFC stop-bolt mod.  Really handy.

[The_Hammer]

@Mopar1973Man

 

I just came across that picture earlier lol. It seems like for my needs a SAC would be a better choice. 

 

@Cowboy

 

I'm going to purchase a set of injectors from DAP since they actually list the specs of the injectors.

 

After reading this I believe a set of 7x10 SAC injectors will be my best bet. I'm only shooting for 400hp or so, my truck is a daily driver, and I want to be as efficient as I can (no smoke). Thoughts?

 

ETA: These are the injectors I'm looking at http://dieselautopower.com/diesel-auto-power-aftermarket-performance-injector-7x0-010-sac-145-up-to-100hp-pp7x10sac145a/

Edited June 26, 2016 by The_Hammer

[Mopar1973Man]

Few things to consider...

• Your a P7100 pump with no dynamic timing. Also your fuel management is based on your AFC and plat adjustments.
• Head design between myself and you where I'm 24V and you only a 12V engine air flow rates are different.

So consider the bit of differences as well. But I don't see any reason you couldn't take the time and adjust everything to get a low smoke tune and get good power from it. Again make sure to ask for flow matching and pop testing within a percent range...

Edited June 26, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[The_Hammer]

26 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Few things to consider...

• Your a P7100 pump with no dynamic timing. Also your fuel management is based on your AFC and plat adjustments.
• Head design between myself and you where I'm 24V and you only a 12V engine air flow rates are different.

So consider the bit of differences as well. But I don't see any reason you couldn't take the time and adjust everything to get a low smoke tune and get good power from it. Again make sure to ask for flow matching and pop testing within a percent range...

 

I don't expect to be able to run as clean as a computer controlled truck, just as clean as I can with a P7100. The fact that I'm not shooting for 500 or 600hp should make that goal much easier. 

 

I'll ask DAP about flow matching and pop testing. When you say "within a percent range" are you referring to the percent of flow each injector in the set has with compared to one another?

Edited June 26, 2016 by The_Hammer

[Cowboy]

There is a never ending debate on 5 vs 7 hole injectors.  If you really want 7x10 I have a set of nozzles I'd be happy to sell you after I'm done testing with them.  They have 2k miles on them and are the exact same as what you linked, other than being nozzles and not the whole injector.

 

The aforementioned neverending debate is why I'm doing this testing.  I told DAP I wanted a set of each 5 and 7 hole nozzles that flow identical.  And that's how I ended up with the 7x.00105's I've been running and 5x.0013's I'm in the middle of swapping (still have one left to set pop pressure on).

 

On paper the 7 holes sound awesome, better atomization for a cleaner burn and more efficient power... Awesome!  However it doesn't work like that, there are two main aspects, atomization and penetration.  Atomization is great, but the greater the atomization the lower the penetration.  Picture it like this.  You have a garden hose on a hot summer day, and you are having a water fight with kids encircled around you.  You only have a certain amount of time to hit as many kids as you can.  If you have a finer spray, you can hit more kids at once, but it won't reach far enough to hit the kids on the outskirts.  But if you have a jet, you can reach all the kids, but the beam it to direct and you'll end up drowning some kids while leaving others completely dry... 

[The_Hammer]

6 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

There is a never ending debate on 5 vs 7 hole injectors.  If you really want 7x10 I have a set of nozzles I'd be happy to sell you after I'm done testing with them.  They have 2k miles on them and are the exact same as what you linked, other than being nozzles and not the whole injector.

 

The aforementioned neverending debate is why I'm doing this testing.  I told DAP I wanted a set of each 5 and 7 hole nozzles that flow identical.  And that's how I ended up with the 7x.00105's I've been running and 5x.0013's I'm in the middle of swapping (still have one left to set pop pressure on).

 

On paper the 7 holes sound awesome, better atomization for a cleaner burn and more efficient power... Awesome!  However it doesn't work like that, there are two main aspects, atomization and penetration.  Atomization is great, but the greater the atomization the lower the penetration.  Picture it like this.  You have a garden hose on a hot summer day, and you are having a water fight with kids encircled around you.  You only have a certain amount of time to hit as many kids as you can.  If you have a finer spray, you can hit more kids at once, but it won't reach far enough to hit the kids on the outskirts.  But if you have a jet, you can reach all the kids, but the beam it to direct and you'll end up drowning some kids while leaving others completely dry... 

 

Thanks for the offer but I need complete injectors as mine have over 300k miles on them. 

 

I've decided to go with a set of tried and true 5x12 injectors, now I have two other decisions to make.

Do I go with VCO or SAC?

Do I go with the aftermarket body injectors with no core charge or Bosch body injectors with $100 core? 

 

I'm leaning towards the Bosch body SAC injectors but still not 100% sure. I'll be ordering a set this week so I really need to make up my dang mind already lol.

[Cowboy]

For a 5 hole, SAC if you can spare the cash, otherwise it doesn't really matter, they'll both run great.

 

The nozzle is the wear item, the milage on the bodies doesn't really matter.

 

On the cores, I believe DAP has two options, either send them the cores up front.  Or pay an extra $100 that they will refund you once they receive your cores.  This is handy for minimal truck down time.

 

For bodies you have two options, either used bodies with unknown miles that they meticulously inspect, or brand new bosch bodies for an extra $150.

[The_Hammer]

25 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

For a 5 hole, SAC if you can spare the cash, otherwise it doesn't really matter, they'll both run great.

 

The nozzle is the wear item, the milage on the bodies doesn't really matter.

 

On the cores, I believe DAP has two options, either send them the cores up front.  Or pay an extra $100 that they will refund you once they receive your cores.  This is handy for minimal truck down time.

 

For bodies you have two options, either used bodies with unknown miles that they meticulously inspect, or brand new bosch bodies for an extra $150.

 

I'm looking at $520 up front shipped for a set of 5x12 SAC injectors with used bodies. I should be able to order them soon.

[Cowboy]

You will be happy with your selection.  While not 100% scientific, after a quick test drive I'm currently siding with the 5 holes.  

[The_Hammer]

33 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

You will be happy with your selection.  While not 100% scientific, after a quick test drive I'm currently siding with the 5 holes.  

 

I hope so. I'll just sold over $300 worth of AR15 parts to fund them