Abs module goes out after 5 minutes

[Mopar1973Man]

... but the cause could stem from AC noise from the alternator that creates more heat on the electronics and causes failures like this one. You'll need to call Module Masters in Moscow, ID and have them rebuild the ABS unit for $130. Then while that is being done then you need to have the alternator tested for excessive AC noise. Yes, you can drive the truck without the ABS unit. The only thing you'll notice is no cruise control, no speedometer and grid heater do not shut off at 20 MPH like they should.

[Alexio Auditore]

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

... but the cause could stem from AC noise from the alternator that creates more heat on the electronics and causes failures like this one. You'll need to call Module Masters in Moscow, ID and have them rebuild the ABS unit for $130. Then while that is being done then you need to have the alternator tested for excessive AC noise. Yes, you can drive the truck without the ABS unit. The only thing you'll notice is no cruise control, no speedometer and grid heater do not shut off at 20 MPH like they should.

 

Right. That's what I ended up doing was testing the alternator on Thursday. .03 with no electronics on, .06 with the air conditioning, radio and lights on. I sent the module back a week ago and just got it back from Module Master in Moscow, Idaho yesterday. I will call them tomorrow to see if they have a idea what happened, but the paperwork said they replaced the MOSFET in it again.

 

The .03 is passing right? .06 seems a bit high but I remember reading here that with electronics on the ac noise goes up too.

2 hours ago, Chris O. said:

 

 Kelsey-Hayes 325 EBC; All wheel ABS system:

If ABS pump runs continuously even with ignition key off, the culprit is an electronic control module, which uses a transistor to switch the pump on and off, rather than a relay.  
simply unplugged the 2 pin connector at the pump, until the ABS can be repaired.

Ya that's what happened. I got it back from being repaired a couple weeks ago, then while driving, the abs light came on and the pump was running again, even with truck off. 

[Chris O.]

My suggestion is to find salvage yard that you can pull parts yourself.

NOTE: This is sort of a hack only good for testing the ABS pump.

I bet you will not find the ABS module for the truck but at least you can salvage one from Dodge Durango, Dodge Dakota or even Ram Van.

This of course will sort of work but it will throw a code after about a minute (CODE 84 - VIN number mismatch).
Warning the ABS will not work correctly in the event of emergency braking (wrong programming for the weight of the vehicle).
Unfortunately the VIN is program in PROM One-Time Programmable memory Inside the Intel 8051 microcontroller, basically you can't reprogram the VIN number.
Other issues will be the speedometer will be way off, wrong axle tone ring tooth count and tire revolutions per mile programming, this can be reprogrammed with a proper scan tool.

 

I'm not sure where you're located, for example by me in Pennsylvania you can go to Harry’s U Pull It. link http://www.wegotused.com/home-2/
What makes Harry’s different from other businesses, and from other “junkyards”, is that customers, who pay a $2 entrance fee, locate and extract the part by themselves. They then pay a minimal fee for each part when leaving. 

Edited July 9, 2017 by Chris O.

[Mopar1973Man]

Still easier here...

 

https://modulemaster.com/rebuilds/shop/brakes/abs-modules/abs-kh-dodge/

 

Five-year warranty against return failure... For $130 I hardly doubt you can get a used one for that cheap nor with a 5 year warranty.

[dripley]

20 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Still easier here...

 

https://modulemaster.com/rebuilds/shop/brakes/abs-modules/abs-kh-dodge/

 

Five-year warranty against return failure... For $130 I hardly doubt you can get a used one for that cheap nor with a 5 year warranty.

That is where the OP's came from. They are fixing it to return to him. As they should. Good to see folks honor their warranties.

[Mopar1973Man]

8 minutes ago, dripley said:

That is where the OP's came from. They are fixing it to return to him. As they should. Good to see folks honor their warranties.

 

 Sorry long week.. 

 

[Chris O.]

I honestly don't know how they can fix these things so cheap, factoring in the cost of labor and parts.

If i was fixing it professionally I would have to charge at least $200.

Just to fix the issue you have to remove the black connector (the transistor is right under the black connector) to do that you have to remove the main board completely out which pretty much means you have to desolder all the connectors.

Perhaps they are doing some mumbo-jumbo black magic

 

[Alexio Auditore]

5 hours ago, dripley said:

Good to see folks honor their warranties.

Ya they honored it for me, didn't charge me for fixing it again. The thing is, even if the abs goes out again, it's not the end of the world. Everything else works. it would be nice tho to find out what is causing it to fail and have to be repaired. The other thing could be that the module is just bad and can't be fixed properly, but haven't hit that point yet.

[dripley]

16 minutes ago, Alexio Auditore said:

Ya they honored it for me, didn't charge me for fixing it again. The thing is, even if the abs goes out again, it's not the end of the world. Everything else works. it would be nice tho to find out what is causing it to fail and have to be repaired. The other thing could be that the module is just bad and can't be fixed properly, but haven't hit that point yet.

I understand. My ABS and brake light are lit. New front wheel bearings and a new rear wheel speed sensor and they are still lit. I would rather pull my tranny twice in the driveway by myself as try to find electrical issues. I suck at it.

[Alexio Auditore]

8 minutes ago, dripley said:

I understand. My ABS and brake light are lit. New front wheel bearings and a new rear wheel speed sensor and they are still lit. I would rather pull my tranny twice in the driveway by myself as try to find electrical issues. I suck at it.

Lol I'm the same. Electronics are my weakness, I don't have a bunch of knowledge about them.

[Chris O.]

1 hour ago, dripley said:

it would be nice tho to find out what is causing it to fail and have to be repaired.

Maybe they use wrong transistor for the job ?
The original transistor has a custom number you can't find datasheet so you can only do best guess.
I used IRL25055PBF so far no issues it's been only few years

 

Not the best picture quality, the red and green wire were used to dump the eprom memory.

[Mopar1973Man]

13 hours ago, Alexio Auditore said:

Electronics are my weakness, I don't have a bunch of knowledge about them.

 

That's why its nice to have @Chris O. on board he's one smart cookie for the Dodge electronics.

[Alexio Auditore]

Well, I called modulemaster and they said to install it and that maybe it was just a bad MOSFET( I may not be using these terms correctly, is the MOSFET also the transistor you are talking about Chris 0.?) So I went ahead after I got home from work and installed it. Started the truck, no lights, no noise, literally drive 100ft and look down, abs light on, shut the truck off and the abs pump motor was running again.

 

I called a relative who is a mechanic and knows a bit about the Dodge  abs. He said besides ac noise, a bad sensor or failing sensor wouldn't cause it to do what it's doing. Sometimes the parts they use to fix it are junk, you don't know till you try it again, and if it fails, there is your answer. I'm calling modulemaster in the morning to see what to do next, but maybe my unit is just shot or the truck is doing something funky electrical wise. 

 

Might have to go to a dealer and maybe the scantool you guys were talking about may pull something up?

 

23 hours ago, Chris O. said:

Maybe they use wrong transistor for the job ?
The original transistor has a custom number you can't find datasheet so you can only do best guess.
I used IRL25055PBF so far no issues it's been only few years

 

Not the best picture quality, the red and green wire were used to dump the eprom memory.

 

Would you say that those are higher quality parts? I don't know what MM is using when they repair it.

 

Thank you everyone for all the help so far.

[Chris O.]

On 7/10/2017 at 8:39 PM, Alexio Auditore said:

is the MOSFET also the transistor you are talking about Chris 0.?

MOSFET is a type of  (Metal–Oxide–Semiconductor Field-Effect Transistor).
 

Ok, here's what my digging around the web discovered.
The orginal MOSFET #V30114 appears" to be a Siliconix product.
The V30114 would be their in-house part number and I did find various "Oriental" sources that carry a Siliconix item part # V30114-T1 (but no "english" description of what it's!)
Now comes the fun part !! 
In 1998 Siliconix was acquired by Vishay (www.vishay.com) and they completely renumbered and relabeled all the products! 
Vishay has grown through acquisitions to include such top names as Dale, Sfernice, Draloric, Sprague, Vitramon, Siliconix, General Semiconductor, BCcomponents, and Beyschlag.
The Vishay web page shows their Vishay-Siliconix part line includes
Power ICs
MOSFETs

small signal FETs
Analog switches and multiplexers
obviously we can eliminate analog switches and multiplexers but doesn't provide any sort of cross-reference from the old to new part #s!!

 

I took a little scroll thru their on-line product catalog for each of the other categories and here is my best guess for the original mosfet:
Vishay Siliconix SUP/SUB75N06-07L N-Channel 60-V (D-S) 175 °C MOSFET
Datasheets: http://www.vishay.com/docs/70776/sup75n06.pdf

ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM RATINGS
Continuous Drain Current @25 C 75A
Continuous Drain Current @125 C 55A
Pulsed Drain Current 240A
Operating Junction and Storage Temperature Range -55 to 175 °C
Gate Threshold Voltage MIN 1V, MAX 3V

 

The power mosfet I used as a replacement:
International Rectifier IRL2505S HEXFET POWER MOSFET
Datasheets: http://www.infineon.com/dgdl/irl2505spbf.pdf?fileId=5546d462533600a40153565b75022502

ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM RATINGS
Continuous Drain Current @25 C 104A
Continuous Drain Current @125 C 74A
Pulsed Drain Current 360A
Operating Junction and Storage Temperature Range -55 to 175 °C
Gate Threshold Voltage MIN 1V, MAX 2V
 

On 7/10/2017 at 8:39 PM, Alexio Auditore said:

Would you say that those are higher quality parts?

Perhaps I'm only doing my best guess here

Edited July 12, 2017 by Chris O.
Broken links

[Alexio Auditore]

Ok. So I called modulemaster and they said they could try it again or just give me a refund. I took the refund and they said just let them know if we find something that is causing it to keep failing and then repair it afterwards. So that was pretty awesome. But now I got to keep looking deeper into the truck to maybe find out the problem. They said sometimes they get modules that do what mine does and they just don't know what to do.      

 

So the speedometer, odometer, and cruise control all work through that module, and they all work fine,( I did notice on Friday I was traveling highway with cruise on at 65 and the truck bucked(( sputtered quickly in rpm I guess is a better description)) twice, which I've never had happen before). What other things go through the module that could cause the MOSFET to fail? 

 

Been a long week, sorry for the late reply.

[Mopar1973Man]

You might have a bad wheel bearing. Even though the bear ing not loose or failing the tone ring could of broke the tack welds and be spinning on the hub. I had the very same issue on my truck. After changing both bearing the problem is gone. I use to get random period of time the light would remain out. The way I found the problem was @Chris O. CCD tool that spotted the right hub dropping speed signal after 35 MPH.

[Alexio Auditore]

If its dropping speed signal it triggers a p500 code right? Doesn't tell you heat one but at least let's you know it's one of them?

 

Would the bad bearing cause the MOSFET to keep failing tho and have to get repaired?

[Chris O.]

On 7/20/2017 at 7:51 PM, Alexio Auditore said:

If its dropping speed signal it triggers a p500 code right?

No

You can only get this P code if you have auto transmission and the speed sensor is bad or failing on the transmission tail housing.

 

A trouble code is an alphanumeric value that corresponds to a particular type of fault. The list was originally created by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) for use by all vehicle manufacturers who have to comply with OBD II emissions regulations in the U.S. The same list of basic codes have also been adopted by European and Asian auto makers. The list of trouble codes is subdivided into four basic categories:

Powertrain ("P") codes (engine, transmission and emissions systems)
Body ("B") codes (Climate control system, lighting, airbags, etc.)
Chassis ("C") codes (antilock brake system, electronic suspension and steering systems)
Network Communications ("U") codes (network wiring bus and modules)

 

On 7/20/2017 at 7:51 PM, Alexio Auditore said:

Would the bad bearing cause the MOSFET to keep failing tho and have to get repaired?

I'm going to say NO on this one also,  more than likely something wrong with the ABS pump if anything.

 

I'm so busy I wish I could help you but with my current full-time job I am having some trouble balancing my family life-work life.

[dripley]

I have seen the 500 code in my 6 speed on a few occasions, Usually after driving on slick surfaces. Always attributed it to the speed difference in the wheels. I guess you might not see it in a RWAL vehicle?  Manual or auto.

[Dieselfuture]

My abs/brake lite come and go, been doing it ever since I greased my front wheel bearings.