Smarty lvl9 with comp box on 5x5

[UnrulyDually]

I had my 2001 3500 with Edge comp box an Smarty S03 stack. Always had smarty on lvl9 an comp box on 5x5. Loved it! Truck loved it! Had to remove vp44 to do the tappet cover gasket an damaged the vp44 case installing it back in. Took the pump in to get it fixed an figured to get it rebuilt while its out. An now its tripped some timming code an killd my new vp44 on same settings i had for years before on old pump. Any ideas why this combo would do this to new/rebuilt vp44. The shop that rebuilt it fixed the pump again under warranty an had no answers for me why it would do that. Just scared to do that setup again an have to go thru all that work again pulling pump. 

[Me78569]

where did you get this "rebuilt" vp44 from?  Do they have a Bosch 815 test bench?   Sounds like a shotty rebuild to me.  you cannot "rebuild" a vp44 without a 815 test bench. 

 

stacking those tuners in that manner is a REALLY bad idea.  Not only are you shoving %100 of your fueling possible under %20 throttle input, but you are also stacking timing.  The smarty is already VERY timing aggressive down low, and the edge is just adding more on top.  I am honestly shocked it runs worth of darn.

 

 

 

If you want the butt dyno feeling that the stack gives you get some 7 x .009 or 7 x .010 injectors and unstack the setup.  

Edited February 13, 2018 by Me78569

[UnrulyDually]

Was rebuilt at a very reputable shop. An yes they bench tested several times with no conclusive results. They reset the computer on vp44 an tested numerous times with no issues. The truck ran great with no issues before taking pump out on smary lvl9 an comp 5x5 setup. Only ran it that way cause i noticed that was the most fuel efficient combo for me. I guess im more curious for answers about if its too much timing for the pump an why it would cause the pump to fail. Dont even know how it failed after rebuild,the truck was working fine for a month or so...then one day after work i stopped by a buddies place for a bit. Truck was shutdown for an hour or so, then went to leave an it was really hard to start, took like 4-5 good cranks before it startd. Idled fine but as soon as touched throttle it would jump an pop like crazy!! Truck is fine now on smarty lvl8 an comp on 5x5. Just wondering if theres answers

[Me78569]

They have a 815 bosch test bench?  There is no other test bench that can do anything to rebuilt a vp44.  The Bosch 815 bench is a VERY spendy unit, last time I heard you are looking at north of 500k for one by the time you buy it and get licensing for it.  

 

P0216 literally means the vp44 could not advance timing as far as the requested amount.  %99 of the time this is due to a galled up timing piston.   The fact that it only happens whent he smarty is also doing timing tells me that the timing sleeve is galled up near full advance.  

 

Again you REALLY dont want to stack timing boxes.   don't run the smarty on odd levels, but the code is telling you the vp is unable to advance timing like it should.

 

 

[UnrulyDually]

Ok thanks for the input. Makes sense. No im not running that setup anymore. Wanted to know if it was safe at all before trying again. An since the hp/mpg gains are so minimal its not worth it. Its just my daily driver/work truck. Thanks again

Its just weird that i had that smarty lvl9 with comp 5x5 for so long with no issues on old pump!?

[Me78569]

I would bet dimes to dollars your new pump has issues in the timing piston sleeve.

[UnrulyDually]

Would there be any tell tale signs that would suggest that?! Just sux doin all that work removing/installing pump. An now im not sure if the pump is warrantable any more. Work was done last summer. Would have to look at invoice to see 

[Me78569]

Popping revving white smoke and a code.  

 

the only other thing that can cause the code is low lift pump pressure, but the fact that added timing makes it worse tells me that this only happens when you are near the end of the timing pistons movement range.  

 

If you clear the code and it doesn't come back then run some 2 stroke in each tank and hope for the best.  If it has lived for this long then you might be ok as long as you arn't throwing a ton of timing at it.     

still highly recommend unstacking completely.  you are doing yourself no favors.   If you want to know why

 

 

 

[UnrulyDually]

Thank you. Theres a lot of good stuff there!

[Ben]

6 hours ago, Me78569 said:

Popping revving white smoke and a code.  

 

the only other thing that can cause the code is low lift pump pressure, but the fact that added timing makes it worse tells me that this only happens when you are near the end of the timing pistons movement range.  

 

If you clear the code and it doesn't come back then run some 2 stroke in each tank and hope for the best.  If it has lived for this long then you might be ok as long as you arn't throwing a ton of timing at it.     

still highly recommend unstacking completely.  you are doing yourself no favors.   If you want to know why

 

 

 

 

Fantastic work ME!!!

 

It's too bad that we were not able to obtain this type of info 10-12 years ago. But better late than never. 

 

@UnrulyDually Me is correct. When I was monkeying around with stacking boxes the only time I set the Smarty on a timing level was with a TST PM3 because that added no timing. Anything else I left the Smarty on even non timing levels and used the other boxes timing. 

 

I have always been a fan of the Smarty/Mad ECM due to my past experiences but since joining here I am not sure about going that route with my new truck. 

 

 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Just like stacking a Hotrod VP44 and a Edge Comp going to net you about the same thing too much timing. Just because you can do it doesn't mean its a good idea. Like my current tune on the Quadzilla I'm about 2-3*degrees retarded from stock timing in the cold. This gives the same effect of my Mopar1973Man MPG fooler without the fooler in place. Excessive timing will produce a effect of negative torque which believe it or not will increase engine loads.