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Posted (edited)

Hello again, I have had this starting problem for about 6 or 8 months now at least and I'm getting tired of it. I cant find any write ups online about it. Its a 1998 dodge cummins obviously. I don't really know how to describe it cause it is so random and all the lights work and try fires up fine once it finally cranks over. I'de guess about every 40th turn of the key is a dud and then the next 20 or 30 cranks after that are dude until the truck decides it wants to crank over and start. What could this be? I have checked every fuse in the truck that a test light can check. I have eyeballed all the square fuses under the hood. Everything seems okay. It has a new ignition in it, my father replaced it before i got the truck cause he thought that was the cause of the truck dieing(was vp44/ecm) so got new vp44 and rebuilt ecm. I believe it was the ignition anyways. I have the part and the box for the new one in it somewhere. Batteries are new and cable end are new with di electric grease slathered generously. It has a oreileys starter on it. It was put on truck when I replaced clutch as my original one was from autozone. But the shop I was at had an oreileys one in the box so we put it on.

Edited by Waydin_Stewart

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yes it is, all lights come on and go off like normal when i turn key on. wts stays on and then goes off like normal. everything is normal and nothing changes when it decides not to start.

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Funky fuel system relay maybe? Next time it does it swap the horn relay for the fuel sytem relay. Might say fuel pump relay, can't remember. Matter of fact you could go a head and do it and see if it does it again.  Just using my powrrs of guesstamation here.

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The fuel relay will cause the truck to not crank at all? I could see where it would cause it to crank but not start. Mine wont crank at all.

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You mean the starter will not turn the engine over?

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Clutch pedal position switch or starter relay.  

 

Next time no start happens, with someone turning the ignition switch and clutch pedal pushed in, test for power at terminal 86, 87 and 30 of the starter relay.

 

If no power at terminal 86 test for power at clutch pedal switch.  If no power from clutch pedal switch (yellow wire) then replace pedal switch.

If no power to clutch pedal switch then test for power at yellow wire from ignition switch. If no power from ignition switch then replace ignition switch. 

 

If no power at terminal 30 check fuse #9 (30 amp) in PDC.

 

If no power at terminal 87 Ohm test terminal 85 for ground continuity.  If open circuit repair ground.

If terminal 85 continuity is good then replace relay 

 

If power at terminal 87 then test for power at starter solenoid (brown wire) 

if no power repair open circuit in brown wire. 

If power at starter solenoid the repair/replace starter motor.  

 

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41 minutes ago, dripley said:

You mean the starter will not turn the engine over?

i can turn the ignition and nothing happens. let it off and do it again nothing happens

 

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7 minutes ago, Waydin_Stewart said:

i can turn the ignition and nothing happens. let it off and do it again nothing happens

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding. @IBMobile has it lined out pretty good above. I think I would rather get hit in the head with a drive shaft than have to do what he talks about but he has it lined out where i could mostly do what he says and could not give any better advice. Though I do believe if it happened again I would swap the starter relay for the horn relay and see if that worked first especially if you are by yourself.

 

 Sorry IB, had to drop some Ripley electrical advice in there.

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15 minutes ago, dripley said:

Sorry IB, had to drop some Ripley electrical advice in there.

No problem here.  Fastest, easiest way, is to swap out relays but if that doesn't work see above. 

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9 minutes ago, kzimmer said:

Could the starter have a dead spot?

hey where did you get your android radio and how did you install it? single din or double din?

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Should I start another thread or just ask on here as to why my reverse lights arent working? they used to work intermittently but now they dont work at all. There is power at the fuse, brand new leds lights, and new reverse sensor(GM sensor as my reverse sensor said pollack just like the gm one at oreileys and the $40 dodge one didnt say pollack)

i dont know how to delete a comment but i went outside and did some volt meter testing. found out reverse sensor was getting power, then plugged in and found out the sensor was giving power, so then I figured well, some lights can only be put in one way so i took one side off and switched it.....needless to say i got so unlucky that both lights were the wrong direction. the new sensor fixed it as I had tried this before with no luck. thanks for the input everyone! LOL

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On 3/12/2018 at 7:28 PM, IBMobile said:

Clutch pedal position switch or starter relay.  

 

Next time no start happens, with someone turning the ignition switch and clutch pedal pushed in, test for power at terminal 86, 87 and 30 of the starter relay.

 

If no power at terminal 86 test for power at clutch pedal switch.  If no power from clutch pedal switch (yellow wire) then replace pedal switch.

If no power to clutch pedal switch then test for power at yellow wire from ignition switch. If no power from ignition switch then replace ignition switch. 

 

If no power at terminal 30 check fuse #9 (30 amp) in PDC.

 

If no power at terminal 87 Ohm test terminal 85 for ground continuity.  If open circuit repair ground.

If terminal 85 continuity is good then replace relay 

 

If power at terminal 87 then test for power at starter solenoid (brown wire) 

if no power repair open circuit in brown wire. 

If power at starter solenoid the repair/replace starter motor.  

 

No start just happened again while going to put cows back in the field. I am alone so is it impossible to test? Im hardly ever with anyone when it happens.

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You can swap your horn relay for the fuel system relay and see ifm that works. If not swap it for the starter relay and see if that works. You could eliminate those as an issue anyway. I know asked earlier but is your WTS light coming during the issue?

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What about contacts in the starter? Sounds like you do a lot of shutting off and turning on, so those could be worn bad and not making contact all the time. mine went out a year or two ago, would turn key and nothing. It actually one time got stuck and continued trying to turn the motor over even after the truck started and after I shut it off and pulled keys out. Had to pull cables off battery. 

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33 minutes ago, dripley said:

You can swap your horn relay for the fuel system relay and see ifm that works. If not swap it for the starter relay and see if that works. You could eliminate those as an issue anyway. I know asked earlier but is your WTS light coming during the issue?

yes it comes on if i turn key off and back on. but i usually just keep clicking till it fires up eventually. it took about 20 turns for it to fire up this time.

21 minutes ago, Alexio Auditore said:

What about contacts in the starter? Sounds like you do a lot of shutting off and turning on, so those could be worn bad and not making contact all the time. mine went out a year or two ago, would turn key and nothing. It actually one time got stuck and continued trying to turn the motor over even after the truck started and after I shut it off and pulled keys out. Had to pull cables off battery. 

I don't do whole lot of shutting off and on. The starter is only about 5-6 months old. Next time it happens i will swap the horn and starter relay. I also tried today when it happened to keep the key held to start position and let off and get back on clutch 3 times. it didnt work either time i tried that. so then i just went to clicking till it fired.

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22 minutes ago, kzimmer said:

Do you have warranty on the starter?

the original purchaser does. Its my girlfriends brothers starter he was gunna put on his 98 dodge. I put it on mine when I repaced the clutch as the ground on mine was messed up.

 

Off topic but I notice the signatures on your truck builds. Edge EZ and 60hp injectors gets 400hp and compounds with 7x.013 gets 540. So why wont my 500hp clutch hold anything above level 6 on my quadzilla?

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Maybe already asked, but is the starter clicking when try and start it during the issue?

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Posted (edited)

I wouldn’t say it’s the starter clicking cause I’ve heard that before and it’s much louder than this click. It just sounds like a relay kicking on when I twist the key but nothing happens

Edited by Waydin_Stewart

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That is how my started sounded when it quit on me.  The contacts in my starter were shot.  I kept thinking it was something else.  As soon as i would turn the key I would hear the click and then nothing.  There was nothing consistent about when it would fail.  Sometimes it would do it and other times it wouldn't.  One time when it wouldn't start I had someone tap on the starter with a hammer while I held the key and it would finally turn over. 

Starter.jpg

Plunger.jpg

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2 hours ago, Waydin_Stewart said:

So why wont my 500hp clutch hold anything above level 6 on my quadzilla?

 

Don't forget your clutch is rated at flywheel toque, not rear wheel torque.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, kzimmer said:

 

Don't forget your clutch is rated at flywheel toque, not rear wheel torque.

its 500 and 1000. So, on level 7 it will hold until about 2300ish and then spin so i let off. on level 8-10 it wont hold at all. just slips as soon as turbo spools. Thank you for clearing that up! I always thought it was rated at the rear wheels and the hp/tq rating they give was the threshold of rear wheel power.

 

4 hours ago, Hawkez said:

That is how my started sounded when it quit on me.  The contacts in my starter were shot.  I kept thinking it was something else.  As soon as i would turn the key I would hear the click and then nothing.  There was nothing consistent about when it would fail.  Sometimes it would do it and other times it wouldn't.  One time when it wouldn't start I had someone tap on the starter with a hammer while I held the key and it would finally turn over. 

 

Thank you! I will try to test the starter relay swap and then I will go back to the shop and swap out starters again for my old one.

Edited by Waydin_Stewart

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