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JOHNFAK

Strange Sound near passenger side block

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JOHNFAK    85
JOHNFAK

Ok - so had tranny TC + VB replaced.Just had the evap/heater core replaced.Picked up the truck and I hear a funny sound - hard to describe - like a very low/dull whir/thud that "appears" to match engine rpm - making me think drivelineInitial thought was TC bolts - so I looked at them and they seemed tight with no play.If I had to say as a "guess" it sounds more like its coming from the block itself. Hard to say. Its very low compared to fan/engine and like a low whirring/thud sound as engine shaft spins.Could it be valves or something - I know we tightened my valves a few months back and no issues and not much play to begin with ?? Any other thoughts ??No codes ........ I have noticed a little black smoke out of the back taking off the line Could the higher tranny pressure in the new VB cause that near the tranny filter besides the block ? :shrug:I know its hard one to diagnose without codes or isolating the exact point.I just changed oil and filter - no differenceCoolant a little low - will top off today.Was thinking cleaning battery terminals as well as well as any sensors ? I have already done the MAP sensor.Throw them out there - keep in mind the new VB which is when this started to happen (or pretty close).John

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Wild and Free    1,104
Wild and Free

Maybe a cracked flex plate.

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JOHNFAK    85
JOHNFAK

Good idea - I took off the cover and started the engine and tried to listen for the sound as well as watched the rotation of the flex plate to see if not smooth.All looked ok.Still finding it hard to isolate ...... strongest sound comes from the passengers side of the block. Not much over there though - manifold, turbo, exhaust ........It kinda sounds like something is loose whilst being spun/moved. There is no thud/clanking or ticking - more just like something moving thats loose ......any sounds from the block itself with valves/heads that could cause that ? Concerned its comming from the block itself - but not sure what to check.

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jlwelding    22
jlwelding

My truck made a weird sound on the passanger side and it turned out to be the exhaust pipe vib on the bell housing bolt and rubbing the frame, made for a super strange sound.

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guinnessbrewer    1
guinnessbrewer

Maybe the water pump bearings? Or the transmission fluid pump behind the torque converter?

Ok - so had tranny TC + VB replaced. Just had the evap/heater core replaced. Picked up the truck and I hear a funny sound - hard to describe - like a very low/dull whir/thud that "appears" to match engine rpm - making me think driveline Initial thought was TC bolts - so I looked at them and they seemed tight with no play. If I had to say as a "guess" it sounds more like its coming from the block itself. Hard to say. Its very low compared to fan/engine and like a low whirring/thud sound as engine shaft spins. Could it be valves or something - I know we tightened my valves a few months back and no issues and not much play to begin with ?? Any other thoughts ?? No codes ........ I have noticed a little black smoke out of the back taking off the line Could the higher tranny pressure in the new VB cause that near the tranny filter besides the block ? :shrug: I know its hard one to diagnose without codes or isolating the exact point. I just changed oil and filter - no difference Coolant a little low - will top off today. Was thinking cleaning battery terminals as well as well as any sensors ? I have already done the MAP sensor. Throw them out there - keep in mind the new VB which is when this started to happen (or pretty close). John

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JOHNFAK    85
JOHNFAK

yeah - kinda hoping its something to do with exhaust/leak somewhereWhen I am under the tranny I can not really hear it ........ so hoping its nothing there (tranny pump etc) as since that was the last thing we touched asides a/c you would thing odds are towards that - but can't hear it. Hardest part is as soon as I start truck it heats up so quick its hard to touch anything to see if knocking/shaking ...... lmaoI read somewhere someone used a hose attached to a small funnel to his ear to help isolate sounds - any1 done this - else I might be a ginnea-pig and try it and let you know .................thanks for ideas ......... 2 questions 1) Is there a way to disconnect the front fan - eg relay - so I can reduce noise and also check water pump etc2) The tubular thing on passenger side of block that tranny lines run into - thats some sort of prefilter before it reaches cooler right ? or is it it a pump ? thx

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Mopar1973Man    3,698
Mopar1973Man

1) just unscrew the fan clutch and remove the fan... (Left hand thread - 36mm wrench) 2) That's a heat exchanger for the trans fluid... (If I'm not mistaken)...

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JOHNFAK    85
JOHNFAK

ok - thanks for the info - someone told me it was a tranny cooler and I wasn't thnking that was quite right

from a forum

"it's a heat exchanger. It warms the trans fluid to allow O/D to engage when cold, and helps cool it when hot.

Not needed for manual trans, should be used with auto, or at least another cooler with cold fluid bypass to allow faster warm up."

Assuming thats right given we have a the electric fan and cooler up front.

Ok - so I * think* my soud is comming form my turbo - or its right in that area ......... going to disconnect the BHAF and tubing and see how much play in it and if I can isolate further .......... only thing is I know how fast the turbo spins and the sound (speed of noise) doen't match that of the turbo - but comming right from that area. .....

---------- Post added at 07:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:44 AM ----------

ok - FOUND IT :)

Its an 'echo' of some sort from the turbo/turbo boot.

Basically I took off the BHAF and turbo boot - all fine.

Put back on - hear this wobble/echo .....

Boot looks fine ....... doesn't seem any play in the turbo ......... i have removed the silencer ring recently ........ :shrug:

ideas now ?

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Wild and Free    1,104
Wild and Free

If you hear it louder with the air filter off you may either have a misadjusted valve or a bad valve. It can sound like what you describe.

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JOHNFAK    85
JOHNFAK

If you hear it louder with the air filter off you may either have a misadjusted valve or a bad valve. It can sound like what you describe.

If I have the BHAF and rubber boot off - the noise is basically not there. If I put it on - its quite loud. Can't see anything wrong with the boot. Wondering if its a small wobble that gets magnified as an 'echo' with the boot on. Anyway at least I found the source. By valve I assume you mean valve in the engine block ? They were pretty tight when we checked last time ....... tightened them down. Whats involved in diagnosing/fixing that ?

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Wild and Free    1,104
Wild and Free

Pulling the valve cover off and rechecking things.. If you set them too tight it will sound like a bad valve. And Yes the intake tube/boot will amplify the sound also.

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JOHNFAK    85
JOHNFAK

Hi mateno - i meant - how do you know if valve is 'bad'. And how do you fix/replace ? I can do the valve lash adjustment - but thats about it.:)

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Wild and Free    1,104
Wild and Free

If there would be a bad valve the head would need to be pulled off to replace the valve. To test would require a compression test. but I would not worry about that until you know if the overhead adjustments are good and there are no issues on the top side. These are just my opinions :2cents: as it costs nothing but time to check the valve lash.

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JOHNFAK    85
JOHNFAK

cool - thanks - was curious beyond the lash adjustement as thats all I knew .thanks once again dude :thumbup2:

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JOHNFAK    85
JOHNFAK

Hey

Hope every1 had a good 4th.

OK - I put in the missing exhaust manifold bolt (top #6) and I also rechecked the valve clearances as per Mikes lash adjustment. All looks fine.

I still have this sound. Its like a soft knocking that you can hear especially well if you put your ear against the BHAF.

Valves ok, can;t see manifold cracks, turbo doesn't seem to have much play ......... running out of ideas ???

Could my injectors in anyway make that kind of sound ??? Is it worth chucking in some injector cleaner and if so what kind - seafoam ??

Kinda lost what to do next .........

thx

---------- Post added at 10:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:28 AM ----------

Tried to take a video - but the sound is so low that I can't pick it up on camera with the engine background noise ......

---------- Post added at 11:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:29 AM ----------

Only other thing

noticed if I take air intake off - and cover my hand over the plastic tube/elbow - the sound is basically gone ...... not sure if this is just because its no longer echoing but still there or something else ........

as soon as I remove my hand and allow it to suck air - sound is back

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Mopar1973Man    3,698
Mopar1973Man

Could my injectors in anyway make that kind of sound ??? Is it worth chucking in some injector cleaner and if so what kind - seafoam ??

I would hook pu a trailer and some load and drag it up a steep hill keeping the pyro at about 1000-1100*F for a good 5-7 miles and that will clean the injectors... 2 way for dirt to to enter a injector... 1. From the fuel supply. But if your running a 2 micron filter or even the stock 10 micron fleetguard as long as you stay after the filter changes you should be good. Even then there is a thing called a edge filter before the injector (located in the crossover tube) to protect the injectors from debris. 2. From the combustion. If the tips are getting fouled from carbon build up then my suggestion of getting them hot would clean them better than fuel additives would. As for the noise I think its OK... Mine got a low tone kind of thumping noise that is only noticed with a BHAF. If you hook up the stock box its gone... But if you worried about it you could do a compression test to verify it...

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JOHNFAK    85
JOHNFAK

thx mate

Yeah - kinda got me stumped this sound ........ kinda worried it might be something serious in the block/cylinder itself - but probably jumping to conclusions :shrug:

Just bought a 'stethoscope' to see if it can help me locate the sound ...... all I know is what I sad above - loudest when you near the BHAF - comes through the line there, but not sure if injector, turbo or something more sinister

If I can't locate it - might take it to the shop to see if they can ...... it never ends

---------- Post added at 02:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:01 PM ----------

just read your other bit

so you have a low thumping noise with BHAF also ?? Thats interesting. Any ideas on cause ??

I was wondering if it could be related to the turbo - as I have taken out my silencer ring recently - a little more play/rattle ??

I will stick on the stock one and let you know if it goes for me too. Was just worried with all the issues/work I have completed on it recently it might be something more .....

Whats involved in a compression test ?? Easy enough to do yourself or better left to the experts ?

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JOHNFAK    85
JOHNFAK

Hey.

Ok - took the truck to my diesel guy.

He looked at it for about 3.8 seconds - and told me I wouldn;t like the answer.

A damaged/faulty exhaust valve (or to that effect).

Said they would need to pull the head and injectors and have the valves machined and reseated ~ $900-$1000

:cry:

---------- Post added 07-14-2010 at 04:51 AM ---------- Previous post was 07-13-2010 at 04:21 PM ----------

I was thinking about a few things (suprise) ........ let me know what you think

1) Any way to know if it is a burnt valve - rather than a bad adjustment ? I am just wondering if there is anyway me/mate did the adjustment wrong and there is no problem with the valve itself ? Doesn;t seem that hard - TDC and TDB and then 0.1 and 0.2 or whatever it is on mikes page with the feelers ??? Wouldn't want to waste a $1000 for no good reason. :shrug:

2) If I get the valves redone - obviously have the head off - am considering having him check the condition of the engine (visual inspection) of heads/pistions etc. If all looks ok for 120k miles was considering new injectors as there would be no labor cost and that way would know they are new and done. What do you think ? Was thinking RV275's {or similar} like Mike - for around $300 new. Worth it ?

thanks guys ....... just busted $10000 in 9 months - its been fun :banghead:

Well at least my tires are ok.

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ISX    58
ISX

If the valve is burnt then it will be letting compression through. Test the compression on all of them until you find the one with little compression and readjust the valves on that one. I don't really see how you could have burnt a valve up in 120k though. It's possible but I didn't think it was very common. I would just check compression and all that first. You can adjust the intake and exhaust for the one with low compression (if one happens to even have low compression) by one simple method.Method:Take the firing order, and cut it right down the middle. 153-624 now put the 624 under the 153.153624Now, to adjust the intake and exhaust on each cylinder, you watch the piston number above or below the one you are wanting to adjust. So if I want to adjust the valves on #6, I would watch #1, if I wanted to do #1, I watch #6... What you are watching is for the piston to just start to open the intake valve. 1 and 6 are running mates, same with 5 and 2, 3 and 4. So when one of them is on the intake stroke, the other is on the power stroke and both valves will be shut and allow you to do both valves on, say piston #1 when #6 is on power stroke. They will also be very close to TDC. But that method will allow you to do both valves instead of one, crank 360, then the other.Hmm, that was a little confusing so let me just give you an example. I want to adjust #5. So I would bar the engine over until it's running mate #2, just starts to open the intake valve, and I mean once you see any movement at all in the intake valve, stop and you can adjust #5. You know when the intake valve is about to open because the exhaust valve is closing (exhaust stroke), and since intake stroke is next, the intake valve will open when the exhaust valve is closing..

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JOHNFAK    85
JOHNFAK

Coolthank kinda makes sense in theory - no way I could do it though - maybe mechanic could. I guess if I am hearing the sound on the passenger side - it makes sense it could be related to exhaust valve. I guess the thing is though - if the valves weren't adjusted properly could it make that sound ? I am thinking not - as the valve chamber would still be 'sealed' right - just wouldn't be getting the best compression as valves would be off a little ? I could send that info to my mechanic but don't wanna #$#$! him off ............ was just wondering if its possible that if I had him re-adjust all the valves that might be the issue rather than this $1000 job ........ probably dreaming.

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Wild and Free    1,104
Wild and Free

The valves usually do not have issues on a cummins but the 24 valves did have valve seat issues some times. The seats would come loose in the head and they can crack and pound out or fall out. Then if it gets bad enough the valve can break and hit the piston and cause all sorts of carnage inside the cylinder.

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JOHNFAK    85
JOHNFAK

Hi mate Yes - it could have been that rather than the valve itelf - to be honest I didn't fully understand the issue exactly with the valve apart from that it was the exhaust valve If the seal or seat is bad - assume they need to be pulled and rebuilt/checked and clearances etc ? i.e - no point 2nd guessing mechanic in hope its just a valve adjustment issue or something more simple - and better to have him pull the valves and reseat and check head/cylinders whilst head is off ?

thx

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JOHNFAK    85
JOHNFAK
:shrug: Someone at CF said 2001 didn't have the valve seat ?? Wondering if worth doing a compression test prior to pulling the head ??? Any ideas of time this takes and approx costs at mechanic ??? I heard there is diff types of compression test also ..... ??? thoughts ?? Really don;t want to spend a $1000 doing head/valve work and find out its something else.

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Wild and Free    1,104
Wild and Free

If it has an internal combustion engine with heads and valves it has valve seats.:cookoo:

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JOHNFAK    85
JOHNFAK

Yeahsomeone said the 01 didn;t have the seat - its machined into the cylinder and thats where its 'seats'.something like thatwhich was making me thnk - what are chances valve is gone ?Anyway - not much more I can do - mechanic has it - and he is gonna check the lash adjustment I did (clearances), the rockers and so forth and then move down until he takes the head and gets to the valves etc I guess.

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