TIRES - Sizes, brands, etc. - What do you run?

[ISX]

I have some things I want explained in greater detail....What is the difference on bearing loading for different wheel/tire setups? I mean the weight of it sits on the ground and the car didn't change weight so the bearing load would theoretically be the same. Meaning bearing frictional differences would be the same with any wheel/tire. What is the difference in rotational wind resistance between tires of different sizes (not straight forward head on resistance, just rotational turbulence). In my feeble mind, an object with similar surface tread surfaces and similar width/diameter, would have equal rotational force required to keep it at the same velocity. Read that carefully...I am talking about an acceleration of 0... So what I mean is a flywheel from a steam engine that weighs 1000lbs and a reproduction of it that weighs 100lbs (made of plastic), would require the same forces to keep it spinning a set velocity with 0 acceleration. Why? Because they have the same rotational wind resistances (they are replicas of each other as you recall). The only thing that would matter is the friction from the bearing loading. Put them both on some sorta weird magnetic levitating bearing and then tell me, is there a difference in the force required to keep them both spinning 1000RPM?.... Im pretty sure they would have the same force. Not sure cause I'm never right but thats my theory. To me the only factor in tire sizes/weights is the factor of acceleration, which is the title of that inertia article. Obviously in the previous example, the 1000lb flywheel is going to take a lot more force to spin up to 1000RPM than the 100lb plastic replica at the same rate of acceleration. However.......by varying time, you could theoretically apply the same force to both and stop when each reached 1000RPM. The heavy flywheel would take a longgggg time to get up to speed while the plastic one wouldn't. In conclusion, I think acceleration in the end is the only real difference. Tread patterns cause differences in road friction, surface area causes differences in wind resistance, but in the end, 2 similar wheel/tire combinations of completely different weights would equate to equal mileages on the highway in my mind because you have 0 acceleration and all other forces are equal. So we have the mileage differences.....which I believe will be experienced more from people who accelerate often (stoplights, etc) than those who don't. I think tread pattern and differences in wind resistance are what changes things for similar weight setups concerning 0 acceleration scenarios.Mike also told me how he accelerated in the old days and he didn't waste any time getting up to speed lol. I accelerate veryyy slowly when I am getting all my 27mpg readings. Someone else on here told me the best they had ever got out of a jeep like mine was 18.5, but I am getting 22 religiously at this point. One interesting thing I read a while back was that wider tires are actually better because the deformation caused by narrow tires takes a lot of energy to deform, kinda like having a flat tire. By deforming I mean where the tire touches the road and flattens out... With a wide tire, the surface area means more weight distribution and less deformation, whereas a narrow tire deforms a lot more because of all the weight on the smaller surface area. Alright, tear my theories apart now

[dorkweed]

Wider than stock tires "stress" the bearings and suspension components due to the greater "off-set" required of the rims. I don't see how a narrower tire will do this.

[Mopar1973Man]

Here you go ISX more on the rotational inertia theories... http://hpwizard.com/rotational-inertia.html

[ISX]

Here you go ISX more on the rotational inertia theories...

http://hpwizard.com/rotational-inertia.html

Yeah I've seen the link 20 times now. Here's something from that page as well..

It's also often worth it to take the hit in rotational inertia for bigger wheels and tires, if it means a larger contact patch.

Anyways I am talking about 0 acceleration.... That entire page is on inertia which is the resistance in a change of motion. By 0 acceleration, I am talking no change in motion. That means that entire page doesn't apply to what I am talking about since it is talking about acceleration.

Now dorkweed makes a point of some differences but I am not sure of how much stress it actually accounts for. Does it account for 1 or 5mpg worth.. To me if acceleration is factored out (cruise control), then you are left with frictional drag differences. If the tires have similar drags, I think the cruise control MPG's will be identical, irregardless of tire weight (though the bearing thing might add to it). In all my days of driving, accelerating quickly is the only thing that ever drags my MPG down.

[Wild and Free]

Wider than stock tires "stress" the bearings and suspension components due to the greater "off-set" required of the rims. I don't see how a narrower tire will do this.

Different rims with greater offset would cause more stress. If one wants super wide tires then yeah you will need a different offset wheel and that is when the stresses come into play on bearings and ball joints. if running wider tires on factory off set wheels it may increase the stress a bit but would be minimal. Remember this, all the theories and specs ect ect are written up for ideal perfect conditions.............................Find me any ideal and perfect conditions outside of a laboratory and we would have a few billion people trying to get on top of it pronto.

[Mopar1973Man]

Might help to post the full quote...

Effects on handling

The effects of rotational inertia on handling are beyond the scope of any little JavaScript calculator I could devise, and hence are beyond the scope of this page. In short, it's generally best to reduce unsprung weight as best you can. It's also often worth it to take the hit in rotational inertia for bigger wheels and tires, if it means a larger contact patch.

This is what Wild & Free was talking about. He's gotta use the larger tires for stability where I can get away with smaller lighter tires.

Anyways I am talking about 0 acceleration.... That entire page is on inertia which is the resistance in a change of motion. By 0 acceleration, I am talking no change in motion. That means that entire page doesn't apply to what I am talking about since it is talking about acceleration.

Kind of hard to live in that world. I live in a daily driver world where you got to accelerate to speed and stop at stop signs, yield to traffic, etc. Then living in the mountains you accelerate up a slop fighting rolling resistance and enjoy the free energy on the backside. I think the only way you could get that prefect 0 acceleration is in the vacuum of space. But daily drivers have weather changes, pavement/road condition changes, etc. Like with all the running back and forth for MoparMom to McCall hospital I never seen 2 exactly the same MPG numbers yet all vary about +/- 2 MPG. Even through I used cruise control for 90% of it. So there is always outside factor you can't change. But changing your vehicle you can change.

[Wild and Free]

Might help to post the full quote...

Effects on handling

The effects of rotational inertia on handling are beyond the scope of any little JavaScript calculator I could devise, and hence are beyond the scope of this page. In short, it's generally best to reduce unsprung weight as best you can. It's also often worth it to take the hit in rotational inertia for bigger wheels and tires, if it means a larger contact patch.

This is what Wild & Free was talking about. He's gotta use the larger tires for stability where I can get away with smaller lighter tires.

Ding Ding ding ding...............................Winner winner chicken dinner, finally got what I was trying to get at out in a good description.

[oldbeek]

After 2 sets of Michelins,75000 miles each , I got cheap and tried Toyo open country. 850 verses 1200 bucks. I am not impresses. Toyo took a lot of weight to balance. I have a shake at 70mph, after new shocks and rebalance. Like they are balanced but not round. Sharp edges grab the grind marks in the freeway and lead you all over. Oh well live and learn!

[scummins]

I just put on a set of primewell h/t 265/75R16 from tires plus after taking everyones advice and got rid of the old 16.50in rims. i am very happy so far. we will see when winter sets in how they preform but so far they are great. they were on the cheap 580 out the door, with lifetime rotation and a prorated warranty.

[diesel4life]

I bought a set of factory 4th gen take offs (tires and wheels) from a 2012 with low miles this spring for $400. I thought I was getting a great deal but it didnt take long to realize why the owner ditched the tires. Traction for what I need is horrible. I'm afraid to even let the wife drive my truck in any wet weather because the traction is so poor the rear end will step out in a heart beat when accelerating if your not driving with an egg between your foot and the go pedal. I'm about to replace them in the next week or two as snow season is fast upon us. I'm torn between trying out a set of Treadwrights or the Nitto Duragrapplers, I've been seeing some good reviews on the Nittos but it's hard to overlook the prices of the Treadwrights and they seem like a reliable tire from the reviews I see. Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk

[Wild and Free]

I had a used set of Nitto Terra Grapplers That were on a set of rims I bought......................Worst tire I have ever ran, I ditched them within a month they handled horrible and I couldn't get them to balance either.I keep talking and looking at what others are running in my area and the Hankook Dynapro ATM is still getting more and more popular, I have had a set on my 05 cummins for a couple of years now and absolutely love them all around.

[Ilikeoldfords]

I also am running a set of the Hankook ATM's. I had a set of the mud terrain dynapros before these ones and wore them out in less than a year towing. I am very happy with the all terrains though. Nice and quiet on the highway but enough traction to get me anywhere. I really like the ride as well but that may be because I went with the 8 ply version. I have heard multiple accounts of people running over 75,000 miles and still have life left in them. They also rotated them and balanced them correctly....

[kicker212]

285/75/R17 nitto terra grapplers

[mehbohdi]

Just got rid of Nitto Terra Grapplers (285/75 R16). I did not have any complaints about ride or handling, but I only got 26,000 miles out of them (down to wear bars), they wore evenly and I rotate ever 5000 miles, just didn't last. Just put on Goodyear DuraTrac's (285/70 R17). Will see how these last, had them installed Saturday. Upsized to 17's, cause I'm thinking of bigger front brake kit. These trucks are heavy....

[diesel4life]

You will like the Duratracs. I almost bought another set but wasn't so sure about the looks of a 285/70. I have seen some guys running them and they looked to wide for the rim. Maybe it was just the type of wheel they were running. I ended up going 285/75/17 Nitto Teras. So far they seem smooth as a whistle at speeds up to 75 mph. Got the chance to test them off road I had to pull a half ton Ford out of a sticky spot. They are definitely no MT but are hands down better than an A/T tread pattern. I sure hope they last longer then 26k miles. There is definitely a lack of selection in the 285/75 category, I wish more manufacturers would jump on board making this size.JR

[Coloradokevin]

I finally decided to register for Mike's forum here because of my recollection of all of his tire talk on Cumminsforum.

Anyway, I'm currently hunting for tires myself, and I'm trying to decide on a size. My vehicle currently has 285/75/16's (which came with the vehicle when I bought it), and my local Discount Tire place has already told me that they won't mount that size on the 2nd Gen Dodge stock rims anymore (apparently their corporate office thinks those tires are too wide for the stock rims).

Here's a wee bit of what I'm hoping to accomplish, and some advice would be appreciated:

1) Maintain my current ground clearance as much as possible (we end up on 4x4 roads quite a bit out here in the Rockies -- obviously this is not a rock crawling Jeep, but clearance still helps).

2) Find a tire that can handle driving curvy mountain roads at highway speeds, predictably (I worry if the narrow profile of the 235's will hurt me in this regard).

3) Find a tire that will still do well for towing relatively heavy loads (though honestly our "heavy" loads are typically no more than a 4,700lb horse trailer, plus the weight of two horses, water, and tack -- less than 7,000lbs total in most cases)

4) Improve my snow driving performance (I think the 235's might help here).

5) Maintain off-road capability (not sure how the 235's would stack up here, but I suspect it will sacrifice a bit in deep mud when compared to the other options -- deep mud isn't too prevalent in CO though).

6) Find a tire that will work pretty efficiently on these vehicles... fuel isn't getting cheaper, and I don't like hammering on the engine, chassis, and brakes more than I need to for my typical "mission" (I think the 235's may help here, but maybe be a bit behind the stock 245's). Basically, good fuel economy and not burning through wheel bearings, ball joints, etc. would be nice.

7) Find a tire that will give me a decent life before requiring replacement.

Anyway, I'd appreciate any input you guys might have on this subject! Everyone I know with these trucks around here are running LARGE wide-profile tires that I don't really think are necessarily the best at accomplishing the job I'm looking to do. But, I'd like to learn more about the other end of the tire spectrum before spending the big money on tires! Too many guys seem to simply suggest wider/taller/mud terrain tires for winter use out here, and I don't believe that those are the best options to go with.

I'm looking at a couple of possibilities at the moment:

1) A dedicated winter tire, then another set of a different type come spring. The Cooper Discoverer M+S looks like a good option here, and is priced well. Probably a 235/85/16 or 265/75/16, depending on what I decide about size.

2) An aggressive all-terrain/all-season tire. I was thinking of the Goodyear Duratrac here, in the same sizes I mentioned above.

[diesel4life]

I'll offer my take...I ran a set of 285/75/16 Good Year Duratracs for 3 years and loved them. The only downfall was when hooking to a trailer north of about 8k lbs the truck really had to work hard. A combination of the 3.54 gears and taller tires. I would really love to do a 3.73 gear split and have even considered swapping to 4.10s for this reason. Early last year I came across a brand new set of take offs from 12 Laramie, wheels and tires for 400 bucks. I thought it was a smokin deal but the A/T tread design is very hindering for me. I run a lot of fields and soft oil well drives on my families farm and I find myself reaching for 4wheel drive everytime I leave the hard pan. I couldn't even pull my empty trailer up the slight incline of my back drive in 2wheel drive if it had been raining for any length of time. Very frustrating. I dealt with it up until a few weeks ago and when our first good snow storm hit I couldnt deal with them anymore. I would have loved to of gotten another set of the Good Year Duratracs but theyre only available up to 285/70 in a 17" wheel and I don't particularly like the way they look on the factory width rims, so I opted for a 285/75/17. I was really torn about what tread pattern to go with I really wanted another M/T but I settled for a balance of a M/T and an A/T and went with the TerraGrapplers. I've already tested them out a few times, got to drag a half ton Ford down a nasty lease road that has only been cut with a dozer and has no base yet. They are light years ahead of an A/T pattern but can not compare with a M/T like my old Duratracs. They balanced well with little weight and are super smooth up to 80 mph. I rarely drive over 70 on the freeway but wanted to get a feel for them and overall they seem pretty good. Time will tell how they hold up. My next step is going to be to find another set of wheels on the cheap and remount the 265/70s back up so I have a set of tires for towing season next summer. To answer your question if your running the back roads alot and find yourself on soft ground, I would personally stick with a 285/75 and stay away from the A/T patterns. You will lose a little fuel mileage but even when I was running my Duratracs I was still clearing 19 mpg empty highway driving. Where you will see more of a drop is hauling or lots of stop and go driving. Still worth the trade off IMO, yes I want to get as good of fuel mileage as I can but ultimately it doesnt do me any good if I can't get where I need to go.

[Gamble]

You will have to let me know what you think about the terra grappa. I had them on my last truck and to be honest I hated them. They were very loud very the not that aggressive pattern and I had a horrible time in the snow and rain with them, and they were brand new. They were slightly wider at a 325/70/17 and that's the only attribute I could find to the poor performance. In defense they did wear well. Good luck. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wild and Free]

Look into the 265-75-16 Hankook Dyna pro ATM, they are a more aggressive all terrain with a ton of factory siping and perform awesome in all conditions.

[diesel4life]

There are alot of mixed reviews about them for sure. People either love em or hate em. I havent had them long enough to form an opinion but so far I have no complaints. They would not have been my first choice but tire choices are very limited in 285/75/17. Interesting yours were loud I can't even hear mine over the engine going down the road. As far as the tread pattern if you need an agressive tire then a M/T is the way to go, these are not considered a M/T. They do grab much better than the OEM BGFs that came on my 12 wheels though. The other day I pulled my trailer loaded with my dads broken down Massie up out of the field next to his house and barely spun a tire in 2 wheel drive. With the tight tread pattern I could see thick clay type mud being a problem, but we don't have much of that around here.