New NV4500 Probelms

[Trich27]

Let me start by saying the tranny is new along with new valair clutch and hydraulics in a 99 ram 3500 with NV4500.  Had local shop install everything and all was good for about 3 weeks.   Now for some reason the tranny has issues with 3rd and 4th gears.  There are times I shift through all 5 gears with just a little forcing but there are times it'll hang in 3rd are 4th gear.  Before the major issues I noticed at times from a stop I would have to cycle to fourth before I could get into 2nd.  I am at loss because it work so smoothly for the first couple of weeks. I have spoke to the tranny builders and Valair and of course each of them blames the other's product.  The truck starts rolling at about half pedal so my guess is it isn't the clutch.  Not to mention it works "better" in all the other gears.  I would like opinions before I start pulling parts off this truck.  Want to be sure I am arguing with the right people.   Any thoughts????????????

[Mopar1973Man]

I'm going to say clutch/transmission install issues. If the pilot bearing is dragging on the input shaft it could create this issue. I've had it myself after replacing my clutch and being careful about the alignment of the transmission I've never had the issue again. Being the clutch is pushed in and the input is still spinning with the crank if the bearing is binding up then shift quality is an issue. 

 

[Dieselfuture]

Agree ^^^^ could be a faulty pilot bearing, assuming shop changed it like supposed to. Some may say, ahh looks good put it all back together. Mine does it too on colder tranny in 3rd just enough to let me know it's not right, but once everything is warmed up seems okay. Idk if it has anything to do with fluid (check yours) or pilot bearing gets wormer and works better. Some day I'll have to pull it out and figure it out, but have so many other things I need to do. Good luck with shops it is not fun dealing with that crap. 

[adamey1000]

I have a Valair DD quiet in mine, and I noticed a serious difference in the shifting. My 2nd to 3rd gear shift is very slow and a little notchy. 3-4 and 4-5 are no issue. The truck tends to shift smoother and quicker if I float the shift rather than clutch. I am wondering if one isn’t something similar. I just assumed it was a dual disk thing. 

[Mopar1973Man]

That's because of the extra rotational mass of the 2 friction disks to slow down. One of the few reasons I won't do a dual disc.

Edited June 9, 2018 by Mopar1973Man

[adamey1000]

I assumed that it was the mass of the clutch, but the OP got me thinking. The other shifts are fine, and no slower than the stock clutch. 

 

But a real bummer to build tons of power and still be so slow off the line. I won’t launch in 3rd, so I just have to deal with it. The clutch was selected for holding power while towning anyway. 

Edited June 9, 2018 by adamey1000

[Mopar1973Man]

Possible pilot bearing if the rest are fine.

[Trich27]

I know the shop changed everything because I have the old clutch parts.  It's not a dual disc, it's the 13" upgrade that I believe is rated up to around 600hp.  This truck is mostly stock, 75hp injectors is about the only hop up. Just at a loss that it was smooth shifting for about 3 weeks.  I noticed today that if I down shift through each gear instead of going from say 5th to 3rd it seems to help.  Transmissions are the one thing I don't know much about so when your thoughts are it's more so a clutch problem makes me ask why it doesn't do it with all the gears.  Talked to the Valair guy and his words exactly were "Clutch doesn't know what gear it is, so if it was the clutch it would do it to all the gears."  The  tranny guy says that it's a disengagement problem so it has to be the clutch.  I'm into this project for almost 3 grand and I just want it fixed.  So what ever the consensus is here is what I'll do because nothing to gain or lose from the opinions here.  And the truck is a farm flatbed drove by a 48yr old so it's not out rolling coal. 
 

[adamey1000]

8 minutes ago, Trich27 said:

I know the shop changed everything because I have the old clutch parts.  It's not a dual disc, it's the 13" upgrade that I believe is rated up to around 600hp.  This truck is mostly stock, 75hp injectors is about the only hop up. Just at a loss that it was smooth shifting for about 3 weeks.  I noticed today that if I down shift through each gear instead of going from say 5th to 3rd it seems to help.  Transmissions are the one thing I don't know much about so when your thoughts are it's more so a clutch problem makes me ask why it doesn't do it with all the gears.  Talked to the Valair guy and his words exactly were "Clutch doesn't know what gear it is, so if it was the clutch it would do it to all the gears."  The  tranny guy says that it's a disengagement problem so it has to be the clutch.  I'm into this project for almost 3 grand and I just want it fixed.  So what ever the consensus is here is what I'll do because nothing to gain or lose from the opinions here.  And the truck is a farm flatbed drove by a 48yr old so it's not out rolling coal. 
 

 

How is the clutch engagement with the 13” single disc? Did you upgrade to the HD hydraulics? Is it possible that the master cylinder is losing pressure and the clutch is not totally disengaging? The plate load is much higher than stock on the DD, and I assume that if the single is rated for that much HP then it would be too. 

 

Just saw in your our original post that you did the hydraulics. Most likely not an issue then. 

Edited June 9, 2018 by adamey1000

[Trich27]

I had this same clutch on the old tranny and had no issues so I didn't go with heavy duty hydraulics. I did put new hydraulics.  Like I stated earlier this tranny is completely new from front to back.   The clutch starts to operate at about half pedal so I don't think its a throw issue.  No doubt  I'm going to have to pull the tranny just need to figure what is the root cause of the problem. 

[Tractorman]

19 hours ago, Trich27 said:

The truck starts rolling at about half pedal so my guess is it isn't the clutch. 

 

If the clutch engagement is reliably at about half pedal during all driving conditions, this would indicate that the clutch is operating as it should.

 

If the pilot bearing is dragging and forcing the transmission input shaft to rotate when the clutch pedal is depressed, it will be hard to select a gear from neutral with the engine running and the vehicle stopped.

 

Here is a way to test for a dragging pilot bearing.  After driving the truck for a few minutes and when your hard-shifting symptoms are showing, drive the tuck to a safe parking place.   Set the park brake, shift the transmission to neutral and leave the engine running.  Do the following sequence several times:

 

   1.  Depress the clutch pedal and wait for about 3 seconds (this will give time for the mass of the transmission input shaft and countershaft to come to a stop).

   2.  Leaving the transmission in neutral, release the clutch pedal fairly quickly ( you should hear the engine slightly load when the clutch engages the transmission input shaft)  Note approximate pedal position when you hear the engine slightly load.

 

If you do detect the engine loading during this process, then the pilot bearing is doing its job by allowing the transmission input shaft to stop rotating.

 

If you do NOT detect the engine loading during this process, then friction from pilot bearing is latching onto the transmission input shaft and not allowing the input shaft to stop rotating.

 

Some other things that can contribute to hard shifting while driving.

 

  *  wrong type of oil in transmission

  *  not matching road speed to engine rpm during shifting

  *  low oil level in transmission

 

- John

 

 

[Dieselfuture]

The more I think about it it's probably not the clutch or pilot bearing, I wonder if something internally could of got loose causing only one of the gears to shift harder. I almost want to say something with shifting forks or something similar, I even heard of top cover with forks malfunctioning or as simple as shifting tower bushing. Now that you made both parties aware of a problem, maybe drive it for a while and see if it wears in place. Like mentioned before check oil, maybe change it to diferent brand just to see if it helps, never know.  Try over filling it a quart by having truck jacked on one side. 6 spd needs at least one extra qt I run 2 extra in mine, 5 speed should be fine just full. @Mopar1973Man is using different oil in his with good results try that oil maybe. 

[KATOOM]

On 6/8/2018 at 10:14 PM, Trich27 said:

Let me start by saying the tranny is new along with new valair clutch and hydraulics in a 99 ram 3500 with NV4500.  Had local shop install everything and all was good for about 3 weeks.   Now for some reason the tranny has issues with 3rd and 4th gears.  There are times I shift through all 5 gears with just a little forcing but there are times it'll hang in 3rd are 4th gear.  Before the major issues I noticed at times from a stop I would have to cycle to fourth before I could get into 2nd.  I am at loss because it work so smoothly for the first couple of weeks. I have spoke to the tranny builders and Valair and of course each of them blames the other's product.  The truck starts rolling at about half pedal so my guess is it isn't the clutch.  Not to mention it works "better" in all the other gears.  I would like opinions before I start pulling parts off this truck.  Want to be sure I am arguing with the right people.   Any thoughts????????????

 

Who are the tranny builders?  Did the shop have anything to do with this other than installation?

 

What do you mean "hang" in gear?  Are you saying it wont pull out of gear?

 

The shifting issue from 3rd to 4th isnt right because thats probably the smoothest gear change in this transmission.  Forcing is NOT what you want to do because you'll just destroy synchro components.

[Trich27]

I agree with it being bad but when the tranny people are dead set that it's the clutch what do I do.  The shop only installed everything  Standard Transmission out of Texas built it.  I'll probably pull it and send it back to them.  The problem seems to be worse  up shifting and not down shifting so my uneducated guess is tranny not clutch.

[KATOOM]

I can guarantee that Standard isnt going to let this be their fault unless its absolutely the fault of their product.  Which means you shipping it to them (costly) and them confirming that something was wrong which was not a result of either an incorrect installation or a faulty clutch.  The same will apply to Valair...  So unfortunately you're going to need to do some diagnosing before making rash decisions and thinking someone else will pick up the tab.  Thats not me trying to be a jerk either but doing what I can to give you a proper heads up.

 

I would get on the phone with both of them and be VERY specific as to what they would need to know to suggest it could be the fault of either product.  It likely that Valair will want you to confirm the clutch fork throw distance and a process of determining if the pilot or throwout is dragging.

 

I understand both companies can be helpful but since you had a third party shop install everything, things only got more convoluted because there's things the shop could have done incorrectly too.  Sucks for sure but making friends with these three places is going to be helpful because you need all three to help you figure out whats going on.

 

That is unless you have some really good buddies who have tools and knowledge and are OK with working for beer.

[Trich27]

Well standard transmission is offering to send me another transmission.  Charge me for it then reimburse me once the one I have gets back to them, like a core charge.  What's the chances that doesn't turn into drama?

[KATOOM]

I cant say.....but I'd be leery unless they're tripping over themselves to get you that replacement feeling like the issue is transmission related instead of clutch related.  Handle this as you deem appropriate.

What does the shop have to say?  Are they willing to help diagnose or are they happy to charge you for another install?