Wastegate spring?

[2000Ram2500]

Happened to stumble across this video on youtube over the weekend. Was wondering what everyones thoughts were. Looks pretty simple just not sure if there are any cons to it. Only thing that comes to mind right away is how does he plug the existing port for the wastegate?

 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Interesting... Anyone willing to try this crazy idea?

[ofelas]

I like spring gate actuators on compounds.

 

The canister style waste gate actuator is always fighting boost pressure vs drive pressure, sometimes causing waste gate pucks to flutter.

 

The spring gate seems to negate half of the above equation, and in my case, gives me a more linear waste gate opening, particularly noticeable when mashing the pedal on icy highway on ramps.

 

[Mopar1973Man]

The boost fooler I'm running now I really can't get a good adjustment from it. I'm wondering how stiff of a spring do you have to run to make this work? 

[2000Ram2500]

He says in the comments its a 12.6 to 30 lb spring i think. Sure beats spending 70 plus dollars on an actuator if you can find the right spring. Come to think of it a friend had a turbo vw bug that had a spring wastegate. It definitely boosted that thing was fast.

[Mopar1973Man]

I've got the same style of wastegate bracket as in the video it would be super easy to just pull it off and add the spring and eye bolt.

[2000Ram2500]

Im tempted to give it a whirl honestly. If I can find a spring that would work it would be easy to do. I've got the mount cast into the compressor housing and to me it almost looks easier to mount it that way. But getting to it is another story.

 

He gives a link to a spring that requires 29 lbs to fully extend it and 12.8 lbs to begin to extend it. Rather cheap at 6 bucks and change for a package of 6. This is the link https://www.mcmaster.com/9628k58

I also found this one which begins to extend with 15 lbs and is fully extended with 38 lbs

https://www.mcmaster.com/9628k12

 

Looks like truevalue item# 681270 matches really closely to these specs although bigger in diameter overall

https://www.truevalue.com/shop/hardware/hooks-springs-fasteners/extension-springs/extension-springs-3-4-in-od-x-2-5-8-in-2-pack

Edited October 29, 2018 by 2000Ram2500
TRUEVALUE

[ofelas]

If you guys are using single turbo's, it would need a heavier spring than what's used on a compound turbo application.

 

Judging by memory, go with a 60 to 100 thou coil wire thickness, and don't focus on "spring rate". Thats what the threaded rod adjustment is for.

 

The springs I use on a Borg single/compound application are about 2-3/4" uncompressed length; not sure about a Holset application, been a long time since I used one as a wastegated secondary.

 

I believe Fastenal may have different thickness springs available, if not, a local Tractor Supply usually has assorted springs in their discounted sale box. Right along with the Danish butter cookies.

 

Since it works off drive pressure, either a drive pressure gauge or a finely calibrated butt dyno would give you the adjustment range needed.

 

Edited October 29, 2018 by ofelas

[2000Ram2500]

@ofelas The ones i have links to up there are all .105 or .106 and 2.75 or 2 5/8 in length.

 

Im assuming for adjustment your saying that you adjust it to the point along the springs varying tension weight and just thread the nut to a point where it is at your required level. Drive pressure is definitely the way to adjust it though because your eliminating boost pressure as the limiting factor since you dont have a canister there to accept the boost pressure

[ofelas]

I couldn't have said it better.

 

I'd put a locknut on there too, once I got it adjusted to where I wanted.

[2000Ram2500]

What about capping off the port where the little line came off originally? Im assuming a standard vacuum cap with a hose clamp isnt going to be strong enough to hold back 30+ psi but maybe im wrong

[Mopar1973Man]

How about a normal 1/8" NPT pipe plug? 

[2000Ram2500]

13 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

How about a normal 1/8" NPT pipe plug? 

 Hold that thought because im almost 100% certain i just have a straight fitting coming off and no elbow. Or does it not matter. Im gonna clock out here in the next 15 minutes and pop the hood and find out.

[Mopar1973Man]

HW35 is going to 1/8" NPT

HY35 is going to an o-ring on a straight nipple. 

[2000Ram2500]

So the tag definitely says hx35w but it does not have a 90* elbow. At most its 20* but definitely has a spot to get a wrench on there. Which means I can use a 1/8 pipe plug. So instead of 70+ bucks for an actuator us with an hx turbo can get away with 15 buck at most in parts to increase boost levels and provide a way to adjust it.

[ofelas]

Ideally, use a brass NPT plug rather than steel.

[NIsaacs]

8 hours ago, 2000Ram2500 said:

So the tag definitely says hx35w but it does not have a 90* elbow. At most its 20* but definitely has a spot to get a wrench on there. Which means I can use a 1/8 pipe plug. So instead of 70+ bucks for an actuator us with an hx turbo can get away with 15 buck at most in parts to increase boost levels and provide a way to adjust it.

 

The 20* elbow is the factory one. Some aftermarket ones are adjustable and some are preset. The one that come with my EZ is a preset one. Max boost with it is 32 psi. I plugged mine and it still has 32 psi. So apparently the spring in the waste gate actuator will let the waste gate open at that psi. To check it, I added an extra spring to help hold the waste gate closed, this allowed 34 psi but also added EGT's, so I removed it and run the 32 psi. That appears to be the maximum the oem HX35 is good for. Anymore, just adds drive pressure and higher EGT's.

 

I do think a larger turbine housing would help on the top end but sacrifice the low end, so....what do you want the most? I would like to try a 14 or 16, but that is a lot of work and expense if it don't help. Maybe some of you turbo gurus know?

[2000Ram2500]

I've been trying to plan ahead as far as that goes im gonna have to put a ton of maintenance into the truck in the coming months and wanna get this thing set up as a decent tow rig. The quad is in the works with injectors as well. Debating on turbos but the S300G keeps coming to mind. I dont want a huge turbo and tons of power i just want alot of reliable torque to tow this heavy trailer around the country when its needed. This spring gate will be a cheaper option for the time being

[ofelas]

The spring gate is a good way of controlling boost on a single IF your canister turbo is non adjustable.

 

An s300g has more flow, period, and any waste gate won't get you to it's flow levels.

 

I'd go SXE357 in the 57/65 size, if you somehow think that a 351 won't work for you.

[2000Ram2500]

Im just looking at my situation for what it is right now. Being im always broke lol a few bucks for a spring for now is alot more appealing than a turbo plus some possible fabrication. Not that i cant handle custom parts im in the middle of building a baja bug from scratch with a honda motor and standalone ecu. Just the way things are going this will be the easier route.

You've been awesome it helps to get insight from people who've done this before. Modifying diesels is still uncharted territory for me but im learning.