Private Property A Concept Lost On Most Americans

[LiveOak]

This is a hot topic and definitely an issue with its gray areas.  Speaking for myself as a land owner, I cannot begin to express how fed up and upset I am about free loaders, trespassers, poachers and just flat out pigs who dump their trash, destroy fences and gates, illegally cut trees, set fires, set up camp sites, go digging for artifacts, dump tires, washing machines, refrigerators, televisions, help themselves to hunting & even setting up hunt stands, spotlight at night poaching deer, go atv joy riding of which some groups have exceeded 50 riders, theft of tree stands, game cameras, feeders, gate chains & locks, tools & other equipment, etc.  I think you get the idea. I loath easements but I respect those that are legally already established and strictly abide by them.  Private property is just that PRIVATE.  It belongs to the owner to use and enjoy legally as they see fit.  

 

I cannot believe nor understand the huge numbers of people who think that it is perfectly fine to free load and just do whatever they like on someone else's property.  In my view the trespassing laws are no where near stiff enough or have adequate teeth to knock this crap off.  State and local governments in my opinion sponsor, encourage, and lend their tacit approval to the trespassing and vandalism by preventing stiff penalties which encourage free loaders to engage in this criminal activity.  

 

There is more than one side to this story.  I don't approve of blocking public roads or easements.  What likely happened was that the owners just like I have contacted the county road commissioner and ensure that particular road was not on the county's road list, checked their deed and title insurance documents to ensure the road was NOT an easement or public road and THEN blocked it off just like I and my neighbors have because they became fed up with all of the above not to mentions the wild parties, alcohol, and drug use that takes place on these trouble spots.  Maintaining county roads even it dirt roads is VERY expensive for the county and they jump at the opportunity to drop these roads from the county road list especially if they have no other easement value like access to a property owner's property.  They become attractive nuisance points for ****** bags to party and raise hell at because it is not tolerated where they live.  

 

This is the wave of the future like it or not.  A LOT of people want to gripe and grumble about private property ownership but when it comes to paying property taxes........they sure do like these private property owners who for the most part carry the county on their backs with the onerous property theft/blackmail payments........also known as property taxes they pay footing the bill for many of the local government waste, fraud, and abuse projects.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/22/us/wilks-brothers-fracking-business.html#commentsContainer 

[Mopar1973Man]

36 minutes ago, LiveOak said:

There is more than one side to this story.  I don't approve of blocking public roads or easements.  What likely happened was that the owners just like I have contacted the county road commissioner and ensure that particular road was not on the county's road list, checked their deed and title insurance documents to ensure the road was NOT an easement or public road and THEN blocked it off just like I and my neighbors

 

We've got a Texas group that came up here to Idaho and bought out large areas of ground and locking it off completely. Blocking access to the National Forest. Now these people need to have there *** kicked. Completely limiting my access to get firewood or hunting on public ground. Very large areas of ground are now closed and no longer can the public access. 

[LiveOak]

38 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

We've got a Texas group that came up here to Idaho and bought out large areas of ground and locking it off completely. Blocking access to the National Forest. Now these people need to have there *** kicked. Completely limiting my access to get firewood or hunting on public ground. Very large areas of ground are now closed and no longer can the public access. 

If they are not blocking a public access road or easement, then they are just exercising ownership of their private property.  If they ARE blocking a pulbic access road or easement, then that is a totally different issue and they are breaking the law.  Have you contacted the National Forest Service to ask them what in fact is the legal access to these areas.  I don't support nor approve of blocking legal & lawful access to public lands.

[JAG1]

We will see how this all plays out. It means also that we have to be smarter than most how to gain legal access to National Forest areas. 

 

From what I have seen in recent years, many don't care about how they treat the land. They are ruining it for us good guys that leave little impact. We who don't throw wads of toilet paper and other garbage. We who respect the woods and smoke inside our vehicle if can't help smokin'. I can't blame them really when you hear stories about some stupid act that started a forest fire. There two sides to this.

 

I was surprised to see indications or an omen of the way the world is headed when I spotted a dirty diaper tossed along side a trail head in one of the most pristine provincial parks in B.C. canada. It was on one the icefield parkway trailheads. Also starting to see wads of unburied toilet paper in areas w/o toilet facilities. If you were raised correctly you know how to be a good guy. I blame for what is happening in our world today. Generally speaking though, the greater numbers of disrespectful types, the greater numbers of restrictions we will be seeing affecting everyone.

Edited June 23, 2019 by JAG1

[Mopar1973Man]

10 hours ago, LiveOak said:

If they are not blocking a public access road or easement, then they are just exercising ownership of their private property.

 

They are blocking access to national forest that has been there for over 50 years. Now gated and locked!

 

10 hours ago, LiveOak said:

Have you contacted the National Forest Service to ask them what in fact is the legal access to these areas.  I don't support nor approve of blocking legal & lawful access to public lands.

 

Hundreds of people have and still remains locked and closed. They have gone as far as putting trail cameras up and prosecuting people that are trespassing on their land. Again this is owned now by a Texas group and just gated off and locked to the public. There is 2 land parcels one in the McCall area by the same Texas group and another parcel in the New Meadows Area. Complete locked up.

 

[LiveOak]

2 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

They are blocking access to national forest that has been there for over 50 years. Now gated and locked!

 

 

Hundreds of people have and still remains locked and closed. They have gone as far as putting trail cameras up and prosecuting people that are trespassing on their land. Again this is owned now by a Texas group and just gated off and locked to the public. There is 2 land parcels one in the McCall area by the same Texas group and another parcel in the New Meadows Area. Complete locked up.

 

I would have to do a title search and review the deeds.  If those roads are private property, it makes no difference that they were allowed to be used before for access to public lands by the previous land owners.  The current land owners are well within their right and legality to close those roads off and prosecute trespassers IF in fact those roads are NOT public roads or easements.  

 

I realize a lot of people may not like it but would you like it if people just helped themselves to drive their vehicles and have free access to your property?  

[JAG1]

Part of the issue has a bit of history with it. When the two railway companies were competing in the 1800s to be the first to cross east to west. The Government offered huge tracts of land to the first one that built a railway across our country as a prize. The lands were split into a checkerboard pattern so they wouldn't own any one area the size of an entire state. So now you have a situation where they can block access to a checkerboard area that is a national forest square surrounded by private squares.

 

You guys probably knew this already 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2019 by JAG1

[Mopar1973Man]

This land happened to be Boise Cascade land for years. Open access to the national forest. These Texians bought the ground and closed it off. End of story. I know several people have looked into this and tried different things. I even heard of court hearings which I'm not sure if it happened or not.

 

Another example is neighbor down the road from me. I have access to cross his land to access national forest to my water right. Gated, locked up, etc. Then the argument starts if I invite someone to access the land other than me. Or if my other neighbor that has land on the other side and want to allow someone access to hunt that land and national forest land. Again more arguments.

 

What is very upsetting is that when I moved here 1990 you could access the National forest in many places. Now private land owners are locking down all access to the National forest and then USFS and Dept of Lands are closing roads so to make more money without every taking the roads off the register. US Gov't now provides the same tax money but they maintain less roads.  

 

Edited June 24, 2019 by Mopar1973Man

[LiveOak]

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

This land happened to be Boise Cascade land for years. Open access to the national forest. These Texians bought the ground and closed it off. End of story. I know several people have looked into this and tried different things. I even heard of court hearings which I'm not sure if it happened or not.

 

Another example is neighbor down the road from me. I have access to cross his land to access national forest to my water right. Gated, locked up, etc. Then the argument starts if I invite someone to access the land other than me. Or if my other neighbor that has land on the other side and want to allow someone access to hunt that land and national forest land. Again more arguments.

 

What is very upsetting is that when I moved here 1990 you could access the National forest in many places. Now private land owners are locking down all access to the National forest and then USFS and Dept of Lands are closing roads so to make more money without every taking the roads off the register. US Gov't now provides the same tax money but they maintain less roads.  

 

Mike, I have a feeling it is mostly because of how bad people behave.  In times long past, for the most part, people respected other people's private property and acted in a responsible and morally decent manner.  Now and in recent times, about all I can see is that for the most part (and there are exceptions) people are pigs and using that analogy is a huge insult to pigs.  Land owners are fed up with how people behave, the financial losses from jerks and criminals, and the constant expense of trying to prevent vandalism, theft, and criminal activity.  

 

A few years back a group of people set a fire in 4 places on one of our properties.  It took the forestry department almost a week to put it out and ensure it did not relight and it burned over 200 acres of our forest land.  The gates, fences, cameras, no trespassing signs, and other measures went up and I prosecute in every instance.  My neighbor and I prosecuted 2 dirt bags that were trespassing on his and my farm riding around on ATV's looking for hunt stands and tools to steal after they had already stolen items a few time before.  We both prosecuted and made it as difficult for them as we could.  They still got a slap on the wrists but now they have a criminal conviction.

 

Another HUGE problem for land owners is liability and being sued by idiots who trespass and get injured.  My farm and liability insurance costs about $7,000 a year and the cost goes up every year and I have NEVER made a claim.  

 

I actually prefer to have people out on our land provided I know them well and we have a VERY CLEAR understanding of EXACTLY what they will be doing. It is an extra set of eyes and ears out there to help me keep up with what goes on.  Unfortunately, there are few I find trustworthy enough to allow this.    

 

[backcountrymountains]

I get both sides of this. Respect for private property is a cornerstone of the country but public lands are one of the best things the government ever did for the people.

 

Every now and then I just think about how much better things would be if some people weren't total pieces of sh*t. Ask to use land responsibly, do so, and have no standing to sue for stupid sh*t.

 

There's plenty for all, but small groups of sh*tbirds really ruin it for decent people. That's on both sides of the issue, too. Billionaires blocking access to public lands is as bad as turds destroying private lands.

Edited June 24, 2019 by backcountrymountains
I can spell.

[LiveOak]

I take NO joy in posting this and wish this were NOT the case but THIS  is why the fences, gate, posted signs, and security is going up on private land pretty much everywhere.  It's not just in Idaho or Washington.  I wish it wasn't like this.  In my opinion, the government encourages this because they just allow it to happen and when they do prosecute.......the dirt bags that do this kind of thing either get off with NO penalty or a slap on the wrist.  Add to this that the fines and penalties are laughable and do NOTHING to deter this kind of behavior.  

[Mopar1973Man]

Out here in Idaho lots of ground has been changed into Wilderness Areas where motorized vehicles are not allowed. Then preventing majority of people from traveling out there unless you have an outfitter guide or a horse. Like all the mountain behind me is a wilderness area. All the roads a gated off and only the rich people that can afford the $25,000 outfitter fees can access this ground now. Not fair. With USFS and Idaho Dept of Lands closing more roads and access to the forest this in now creating your posted problem because there are less areas people can go to enjoy. 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2019 by Mopar1973Man

[JAG1]

It is a sad state of affairs when good folks can no longer enjoy areas so beautiful so peaceful...... was always needed to refresh our hearts and minds. The ones that show no respect for Americas resources  (fireworks tossed over a cliff in the Columbia River Gorge in century mark temperatures comes to mind) compounded by crowds, many of whom can be rude have caused this problem. Years ago I saw the writing on the wall about this sort of thing and bought what I could afford with privacy and seclusion. Only a 5 acre place, lots of trees, a nice plot,except the sounds of an ever expanding population are now beginning to violate what was once a very peaceful place. I can't blame the rich for doing what they are doing.... it is smart investment in the future.

 

By the same token I am saddened that folks like you Mr. nelson are being excluded from such resources in America.