Oil Rant

[elshadow001]

Ok! today I got a phone call from LE Engineers.

They make custom oil, grease, and other things like fuel additives

We had a very nice phone chat and I explained to him that I had used their some of their products for like 20 years.

Mainly our company used the grease because we had such a high wear rate on our equiptment.

Their grease is unbeatable for wear reduction, I have observed it in pressure wear tests.

I don't sell or buy the products today because it's not cheap. I told him I had about a fourth of a tube of their grease left that I borrowed as I retired.

He is going to send me a couple tubes for around the home lubing.

I will be using it on my truck and other things. It is a red colored grease, and I have never had one complaint against it in my time of working. Yeah it is nasty gets on everything, but it works.

Any way! enough of my freebies coming in the mail.

Now I have been reading more and more about oil, because I find out the more I learn the more I realize how little I have known about oil.

I even went out and read the back of the label on my two cycle oil that I recently got at wallymart.

It says that it has antigel added to it. How about that for those that don't like two cycle oil.

Also while I was talking to the man on the phone about the le products we got to talking about two cycle oil in the diesel fuel. The main concern with it is simple SMOG - pollutants because it's burning.

Duh! doesn't all fuel burn?

Well so much for the inteligence of the epa folks.

He tried to sell me some of their additives for the fuel but i told him i only drive about 500 miles a year he said it is a waste of money, use the two cycle oil.

So I knew that, I just didn't want to spend all the money for their stuff when my wallymart has antigel in it

Thats enough for my post for now.

[jordan]

if there concerned about smog (let's pretend we don't know that it helps with diesel combustion) wouldn't outboard two 2 stroke reduce this since it's suppose to be "easier on the environment" most outboard exhaust goes under the surface of the water witch is why it has to conform to certain specs, compared to snowmobile 2 stroke oil (probably better anti gel properties in snowmobile 2 stroke)

[AH64ID]

Good deal with the grease. I have seen amazing results with the Amsoil stuff, there for I only run it.. Once you find something you like its nice to stick with it. As far as the 2-stroke its a mixed bag. I agree its good cheap lube for a VP44, but is anti-gel for gas the same as anti-gel for diesel?I didn't think gas gelled, but it would freeze with water content.. So I would think anti-gel for gas is alcohol based.. but thats just an initial thought, research to follow.

[elshadow001]

Good deal with the grease. I have seen amazing results with the Amsoil stuff, there for I only run it.. Once you find something you like its nice to stick with it.

As far as the 2-stroke its a mixed bag. I agree its good cheap lube for a VP44, but is anti-gel for gas the same as anti-gel for diesel?

I didn't think gas gelled, but it would freeze with water content.. So I would think anti-gel for gas is alcohol based.. but thats just an initial thought, research to follow.[/QUOT

You should be ashamed by making these stupid people look stupid.

Sorry they do that to themselves!

[AH64ID]

Reading the MSDS on the Super Tech TC-W3 I dont see any alcohol, so thats good.. I'm not a chemist, but I also don't see what is being used for anti-gel in gasoline. There is a trade secret additive, so no clue on what that could be.

Doing a quick search I can't any commercially available anti-gel's for gas, only Diesel.

The temps vary, but gas won't gel or freeze until well below -100*F, so the anti-gel additive in the TC-W3 is either for water or for the 2-stroke itself..

--- Update to the previous post...

You should be ashamed by making these stupid people look stupid.

Sorry they do that to themselves!

Maybe its the lack of sleep, but I'm not sure I follow...

[Mopar1973Man]

Actually the 2 cycle oil sold around here for snowmobiling must make it to at least -40*F. Like my old Artic Cat sitting in the yard it does not mix the oil in the fuel until the combustion chamber. The oil is pump directly from the oil tank to the is 2 tiny nozzles in the intake trac where the oil is mixed with fuel. So the oil has to stay above pour point (solid). So my theory on 2 cycle oil PPD (Pour Point Depressants) is that we all know water freezes at 32*F and we know if you and salt to the water the freeze point falls. But in this case we'll say the 2 cycle oil is like salt water (unknown amount of salt). So if you know you add salt water to the normal water the freeze point is going to be reduced. How much? I don't know... From data sheets for diesel fuel in Idaho the pour point on most diesel fuel around here is like +18*F to about -18*F and the 2 cycle oil from WalMart has a pour point down to -40*F so it has to effect it to some degree...

[dorkweed]

Most newer sleds and later version outboards are oil injected.........meaning that you do not have to pre-mix the gasoline and 2 stroke oil. It's done auto-magically somewhere in the fuel system/engine. That said, it order for oil injection to work, it has to flow......especially in sleds that are used in really cold temps. That's the reason for anti gel in the 2 stroke oil.

[elshadow001]

Ok so is there antigel in two cycle oil? this is for gas!I didn't print the lable. look at the picture and read what it says. It says antigel formulation will not separate out or clog injector screens.HMmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[AH64ID]

Well that certainly makes it look like the anti-gel is for the oil, not the gas.. which makes sense. It would also make sense that it should help on the diesel, but how much is hard to tell without a freezer test. Who has an empty freezer?

[elshadow001]

Who makes the differnt two cycle oils?Here is a excell list to read.

TC-W3-2010.xls

[AH64ID]

When choosing a 2-cycle one should consider the flash point, as at idle the combustion temps in a diesel are very low, and partial combustion could leave deposits. Super Tech is ~250*F, for comparison I checked the Amsoil HPI ~186*F. Of course the Amsoil MSDS doesn't list specific ingredients either..

[elshadow001]

check this link to read about diesel fuel ignition http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/fuels-ignition-temperatures-d_171.html

[AH64ID]

check this link to read about diesel fuel ignition http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/fuels-ignition-temperatures-d_171.html

That looks like auto-ignition which, from what I understand, is the temp at which the liquid will ignite, Flash point is where the vapor will ignite. Diesel #2 auto-ignites at about 500*F, give or take, but its flash point is about 125*F.

[elshadow001]

Now the question is! at what temperature is the cylnder inside while burning?Is it hot enough to burn everything?I don't know, however some left over oil that lubricates the upper cylnder area is ok with me.

[AH64ID]

It really is hard to say how much the flame cools by the time it hits the pyro.

[Mopar1973Man]

It really is hard to say how much the flame cools by the time it hits the pyro.

Well if your pyro is in the exhaust manifold (4,5,6) you know your going to be seeing close to the actual number but I'm sure the cylinder temps are higher who much I'm not sure... You don't want to look at my pyrometer... I can touch the 1,400*F rather easy...

[AH64ID]

Well if your pyro is in the exhaust manifold (4,5,6) you know your going to be seeing close to the actual number but I'm sure the cylinder temps are higher who much I'm not sure... You don't want to look at my pyrometer... I can touch the 1,400*F rather easy...

1400 on your motor, scary.. you need a bigger turbo dude! I may have an HE351 for sale next summer.. good guy price :-) Yeah I monitor in the manifold, 5,6 on a HPCR.. And I am sure the combustion temp is higher, but how much? Can't be too much higher or the pistons would melt sooner than they do.