Water found while installing head bolts

[jtrakel]

Afternoon while replacing my head studs today to some ARPs I noticed some water in the head stud wells. It doesn't look like coolant as it's clear vs green and hardly mixed with oil. Of the 8 studs I've done two of them had this water in the hole. There is no real smell and is does have a slight viscosity but dries up like water would vs that "oily" feeling from coolant or oil. See the video of me using a clear straw to extract the liquid.

 

I've read that our studs do not go into any water jackets, I've also read about finding condensation/some water while doing head studs but this seems a little much. The obvious answer is a head gasket but I'm not seeing any other signs. Smoke for exhaust, coolant in oil, and I got a oil test done about 1 1/2month ago with no indications of a pending head gasket. Has anyone done a head gasket at home, any recommendations do/don'ts if I go down this path? 

 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Typical spots for coolant to leak is the ends of the head. Like my truck leaked on the coolant passage at the rear of the head on the passenger side. The other spot is at the front of the head on the passenger side. Where your at in the picture is not a common spot for water or coolant. I had oil in most of the holes I insert the ARP 425 studs into and required a bit a torque to twist the bolts down to bottom of the holes. then back off and just seat them. 

 

Finding this picture it could be coolant being the coolant passage is right near that bolt hole possibly if I'm seeing it right.

Edited June 21, 2020 by Mopar1973Man

[jtrakel]

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Typical spots for coolant to leak is the ends of the head. Like my truck leaked on the coolant passage at the rear of the head on the passenger side. The other spot is at the front of the head on the passenger side. Where your at in the picture is not a common spot for water or coolant. I had oil in most of the holes I insert the ARP 425 studs into and required a bit a torque to twist the bolts down to bottom of the holes. then back off and just seat them. 

 

Finding this picture it could be coolant being the coolant passage is right near that bolt hole possibly if I'm seeing it right.

 

 

Thanks for the reply, i'm 50/50 right now if I want to pull the head but I feel I may just do it anyways since the motor is already pulled apart to an extent for the VP and injectors I just installed. My next issue i've run into is getting the ARP stud to drop into the well for #11 bolt (via the ARP bolt guide they send). It is contacting the firewall preventing it from dropping into the hole.  I've looked at my motor mounts to ensure they are all the way seated and it appears they are, I have not read anywhere of others having this issue. Again more signs that I may just pull the head off and see what nightmare may be waiting for me.

[dripley]

The one bolt you mention is normal. I have heard of folks cutting a hole in cowl to allow install. I believe @Mopar1973Man raised the the cab a little for his to drop. As far as the water goes I dont remember seeing any in mine when I did the HG on mine and it was leaking on the front right cormer. The other odd thing is it just appears to be water and no coolant. Is it possible for water to condensate in the holes?

[jtrakel]

5 minutes ago, dripley said:

The one bolt you mention is normal. I have heard of folks cutting a hole in cowl to allow install. I believe @Mopar1973Man raised the the cab a little for his to drop. As far as the water goes I dont remember seeing any in mine when I did the HG on mine and it was leaking on the front right cormer. The other odd thing is it just appears to be water and no coolant. Is it possible for water to condensate in the holes?

ive read on some other forums that it’s normal to see condensation build up. Just seems like more than normal for me. Not sure but I agree there is zero sign of coolant in the liquid and it dries like water unlike that slick feeling you have on your fingers after touching oil or coolant 

[dripley]

How many miles on the engine?

[jtrakel]

16 minutes ago, dripley said:

How many miles on the engine?

165,xxx

[dripley]

That is pretty low mileage for a HG failure but who knows for sure. Mine started weeping around 430k. Just a wet spot. About the time I found the time to do it I saw a drop of coolant finally hit the ground. That was around 470k. We have seen some other failures up in the in the 300's. I dont think I would pull it but thats me. 

[jtrakel]

48 minutes ago, dripley said:

That is pretty low mileage for a HG failure but who knows for sure. Mine started weeping around 430k. Just a wet spot. About the time I found the time to do it I saw a drop of coolant finally hit the ground. That was around 470k. We have seen some other failures up in the in the 300's. I dont think I would pull it but thats me. 

 

I agree, currently cutting a hole in the firewall for this stud to drop in the well and hopefully that will be the only one I need to mess with! I've ordered a new head gasket set for the future so I at least have it on hand now in the event the current one gives out after I finish the studs.

[Mopar1973Man]

Do not cut the cowl. Jack up the cab. Not required

[dripley]

2 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Do not cut the cowl. Jack up the cab. Not required

How many cab bolts did you loosen to raise it enough to clear?

 

[Mopar1973Man]

59 minutes ago, dripley said:

How many cab bolts did you loosen to raise it enough to clear?

 

 

ZERO. I placed the stud in the hole. Then using a 2x6 lifting from the floor up to the cowl using a floor jack I slowly jacked the cab up nearly an 1/2 inch and the stud fell in the hole by itself. The rubber of the cab mount compressed over the years and just need to lift the cab slightly just about 1/2 inch and plunk in the stud. 

 

NO HOLES DRILLED or CUT in the cowl.

[jtrakel]

4 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

ZERO. I placed the stud in the hole. Then using a 2x6 lifting from the floor up to the cowl using a floor jack I slowly jacked the cab up nearly an 1/2 inch and the stud fell in the hole by itself. The rubber of the cab mount compressed over the years and just need to lift the cab slightly just about 1/2 inch and plunk in the stud. 

 

NO HOLES DRILLED or CUT in the cowl.

 

Saw this to late and now there is a hole in my cowling . I threw some duct tape over it along with some sound damping spray that I had in the garage. Definitely didn't miss the gym today with the amount of torquing and loosening of the head bolts. I followed the glacier diesel steps so hopefully when everything is said and done I didn't induce a head gasket failure.

 

Just waiting on my PCM and ECM to be sent back from Computer Specialist then I'll be able to fire up the rig with the new injectors and VP. I installed a Red Head steering gear and new power steering pump as well today. What brands are people using to tighten up the front end some more, is there a kit out there that a lot of members use vs. buying individual parts?

Edited June 22, 2020 by jtrakel

[Mopar1973Man]

No holes, no cuts, no duct tape. 

 

I just lifted right up between the exhaust pipe and turbo and lifted the cab right near the outer heater hose. 

[CAMG3X]

I had the same condensation like liquid in a few of the stud holes. Want to say at least 4 of them had about that same volume. 

[jtrakel]

9 hours ago, CAMG3X said:

I had the same condensation like liquid in a few of the stud holes. Want to say at least 4 of them had about that same volume. 

 

That's comforting the hear. I was frantically searching if this was a remotely common thing when doing studs, everything is back together now just waiting for my PCM and ECM to show up in the mail! 

19 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

No holes, no cuts, no duct tape. 

 

I just lifted right up between the exhaust pipe and turbo and lifted the cab right near the outer heater hose. 

 

 

Suppose I'll just chalk my hole up to a "custom" fabrication! 

[CAMG3X]

Ya I made the mistake of trying to suck them out with a small hose before blowing them out with air. Got some in my mouth, definitely not antifreeze lol