Quadzilla stumbles @ max TPS WT %

[Me78569]

you felt it get weak after 2800 because of lack of timing.   

 

You should have a good hard pull to 3500 rpm.   The VP is starting to fall off beyond ~3250 rpm but it is still able to do 600 hp at 3500 rpm.  plenty of dyno logs show that.

 

I won't be worried about limiting RPM to 2800 as you are leaving a lot of fueling rpms on the table.  

 

A truck tuned well revving out to 3500 will be faster than a truck shifting at 2800 rpm.  

 

 

You lack of canbus is in the data log is why it feels like a 450 hp truck not a 600 hp truck.  The lack of boost reading at the sensor at ~1800-2200 rpm is what is causing that lack of canbus fuel.  

 

I would expect your setup to be making 10+ psi before 1800 rpm on a WOT 3rd gear pull and 50+ psi above 2400 rpm.  I dont see that in your logs. 

 

 

The data logs from the edge comp show ~28+ * of timing from 2500 rpm and above.  I seen max timing commands multiple times, at 31*.   you were asking for ~5-6 less timing than that in your orginal tune.  

 

 

That's a big difference.  A VP should be maxing timing at 30* be 3k rpms unless it doesn't run well.  

 

 

 

 

[rogerash0]

2 hours ago, Me78569 said:

Power Reduction: 10%

Not sure what this is. Valet power?

What you said sounds good. I will add timing up top. Having too much down low is what I was really concern with avoiding due to cylinder pressure and smoke and jerkier boost characterstics.

[Me78569]

lvl 1 power. 

[rogerash0]

Im loading your tune into my phone as we speak. Im on 2.8.4, which I looked in the Downloads section on here, it looks to be the latest. I dont know where I input lvl1 power/"power reduction" but I suspect its not a big deal. I set Valet to 70% in hopes that it runs that setting when my coolant has not come up to the set temp yet.

Edited July 6, 2020 by rogerash0

[Me78569]

what kind of waste gate are you running with 62?  Is it opening soon enough to let the 475 do the hard work?   

 

 

 

 

[rogerash0]

I went to a Stainless Diesel spring wastegate. I recently ran through its paces (yesterday), testing it again at 2 turns out, 3 turns out, 4 turns out, 5, 6, then back down to 2, 2.5 turns out, 3 turns out, etc. and I write down notes and pressures observed at every setting in my phone, to include how torque feels.

 

I think its setup best, currently. The best numbers I can get out of the S475 are about 12psi when Im making 30 overall, but the truck gauges like to move fast so those are ballpark but fairly accurate numbers. If I went out and did a full highway pull at 60psi, I think I would still see 30psi from the S475. That's what I was seeing prior messing with the WG again. Im very close to where it was previously set, so thats why I think the S475 will still make half the overall boost.

--

Well there won't be any driving today probably bc the airdog makes 10psi at idle and 6-8psi barely pedaling it. It did this yesterday and I swapped the autozone relay with an old oem relay and it came back to 15psi at idle and 10psi under WOT. Now I just tried another OEM relay and same problem exists. I suspect it's a heat related issue in the harness or pump.. making a new harness from scratch has been on the to do list. Their fuse folder used to melt the plastic casing around the inside use too, so, i don't have much faith in their harness. I have all new 10 gauge wire to make a fresh harness.

 

Fuel temp is still 112 after driving the truck for an hour, 4 hours ago.

Edited July 6, 2020 by rogerash0

[rogerash0]

5 hours ago, Me78569 said:

Nearly positive your bucking is related to a lack of timing after ~2k rpm

The bucking I experienced was always related to high timing and high rpm from say a pull in 3rd gear with OD off. I have none now that my timing is low. We will find out when I run your tune.

[Mopar1973Man]

5 hours ago, rogerash0 said:

Im loading your tune into my phone as we speak. Im on 2.8.4, which I looked in the Downloads section on here, it looks to be the latest. I dont know where I input lvl1 power/"power reduction" but I suspect its not a big deal. I set Valet to 70% in hopes that it runs that setting when my coolant has not come up to the set temp yet.

 

No. Only used for Level 1 power. So in my case I use it for a security level. When I park I set the Quad for Level 1. Now if anyone steals my truck it only rolls at about 20 MPH tops. 

 

Even at this setting its more than enough power for tires shops to drive the truck. 

 

Warm Up mode is level ZERO. Which is stock ECM no Quadzilla tune at all till your reach your coolant setting. Now the max fuel in the warm up is the 0 PSI column of the CANBus fueling. It will hold 0 PSI till it unlocks then the entire table is used when RED power bar is seen.

 

As for me I run quite a bit of timing. I step up 4.5 degrees on each band... 14, 18.5, 23, 27.5... You should be able to run even more. 

 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Mopar1973Man

[rogerash0]

Ah, very interesting that it utilizes the 0 psi fueling setting during warm-up mode. All along I've wished great information like this was simply on the screen when you went to input the value. There's loads of room all over the screen when you input the values, due to the way it brings up a new blank screen with a single input box.

 

I'm familiar with the red bar coming online like you mentioned, but I still thought level 1 was valet mode.

 

Right now Im really curious when my airdog will act right and give me proper fuel pressure. I'm tired of diesel baths after messing with that thing forever in the past. I bet if I crank it up tomorrow when its cool out, all the pressures will be normal. I threw in a new 40a 4 prong Bosch relay from Amazon tonight, and the fuel issue still exists. My pump isnt scorching hot so I dont think its on its way out. 

[Mopar1973Man]

15 minutes ago, rogerash0 said:

I'm familiar with the red bar coming online like you mentioned, but I still thought level 1 was valet mode.

 

Correct. Level 1 is valet mode. But this is not used for warm up. Valet mode. In other words a secure fuel environment for people that don't understand high power Cummins truck. I set it very low for tire shops or security methods. If my truck was stolen the driver would give up rather quickly and ditch the truck than running with it. 

 

Warm Up mode automatically selects level 0 and the bar is GREEN. This period of time during warm up your on ECM software for timing. Fueling is limits to the 0 PSI only. 

 

Now Selecting level 0 after Warm Up then your on ECM fuel and timing. (Stock ECM Tune).

 

Level 2 is all defuel part of the CANBus fuel map till 100% and stops right there at stock fuel.

Level 3 is full CANBus fuel map.

[rogerash0]

Level 4 made more power in a recent dyno video of a VP truck on Firepunks dyno. I've been curious as to what level 4 does, since this guy made something like 80 or 120HP more on level 4 compared to level 5.

 

Also the power levels are so aggravating to press because they're so small and finicky, be it on my phone or amazon tablet, I generally dont touch them.

[Mopar1973Man]

Level 4 to level 10 is basically the wiretap split up. I typically go from 0 to 7 levels (8 in the settings page). Now why...

• Level 4 is 25% wiretap
• Level 5 is 50% wiretap
• Level 6 is 75% wiretap
• Level 7 is 100% wire tap

If you set for 11 levels that would be 10% per level of wiretap.

[rogerash0]

Oh very interesting. Im surprised its wiretap cut up and not the canbus table scaled down. Does this mean the wiretap fueling accounts for a considerable portion of the total fuel delivered to the engine? Because to me wiretap was substantial but I wouldnt estimate that it accounts for over 25% of the total fuel delivered. I know I'm probably wrong, though.

Edited July 7, 2020 by rogerash0

[Mopar1973Man]

CANBus doesn't need scaling down. Being you can reach MAX CaNBus (4095 fueling number) at any point you want. You can cut CANBus as low as 50% fuel. 

 

Wiretap is the uncontrolled one being adding the max timing 2,200 microseconds of pulse. The levels allow to find the max CANBus without flooding out the turbo (excessive smoke).

[rogerash0]

I suppose that makes sense; Im just wondering why not cut the canbus and keep wiretap? perhaps wiretap fueling is messier or harder on the injection pump?

Have you ever gave thought to if the quad's low throttle timing advance and high TPS input timing retard is hard on the timing piston in the VP44 with all the changes? Do you think its possible to move it too much or too rapidly? I've often wondered this and its a reason why I never tuned with those settings. Sure, it'll probably be okay, but is the gain worth the risk? (hurt pump, stuck timing piston, etc)

PS

I get an error when I try to hide your signature. The image isnt loading right now, and I have a 1920x1080 res laptop screen and your sig seriously takes up the entire page when I go to scroll past it.

Edited July 7, 2020 by rogerash0

[Mopar1973Man]

3 minutes ago, rogerash0 said:

why not cut the canbus and keep wiretap?

Because level 2 cuts CANBus and limits to 100% cuts off anything above 100% fuel map.

 

4 minutes ago, rogerash0 said:

Sure, it'll probably be okay, but is the gain worth the risk? (hurt pump, stuck timing piston, etc)

 

I've ran never had one issue with Edge Comp for over 10 years on 5x5. Then running Quadzilla on level 7 most of the year and no issues. 

 

VP44 history.

• Stock OEM failed at 50k miles. P0216 code (stuck retarded)
• Warranty pump lasted 243k miles. P0216 code (293k clock - stuck full advanced)
• DAP pump currently running 122k miles (415k clock) 

[Me78569]

the reason we dont cut canbus on levels 4-xx is a good tune shouldnt need canbus to be cut.  canbus fuelig should be smooth and easily controllable with the right foot.   Wiretap is not easily controllable. even with a huge map wiretap is really best suited for extending fueling from 2500 rpm and above.  it should not make up the base of your tune.

 

wiretap is ~%25 of fueling possible.  

 

the timing piston moves a ton on stock tuning.  the quad doesn't add additional movement.

[rogerash0]

Your tune felt good today but I only got to mildly drive it to and from work. Going to work when my fuel temp was 98 degrees,  I had ok fuel pressure at 15psi @ idle and 10psi @ max drop. 

 

Driving home, when I wanted to test the tune out a bit, I had 10 psi at idle amd it fluttered down to 5psi at 40% throttle/2500rpm. So, I wasn't able to really get on it. Right now it's sunny and 89 outside with a realfeel of 98.

 

I feel like I'm the only one with these bad fuel pressure drops, which definitely seems heat related. I still had 13.5 volts today whilst driving home. I know the trucks voltage changes with temps too.

 

Torque was up a lot at 2500rpm, I liked it. Torque was also up off idle, that felt nice.

Smoke was up, primarily from wire tap being on from 0% tps on up. I think wire tap min set to 32% would help keep smoke down closer to zero in daily driving situations. 

 

I'm starting to think I need a battery booster pack at 15 volts or something to wire into the airdog's power wire.

Edited July 7, 2020 by rogerash0

[Mopar1973Man]

49 minutes ago, rogerash0 said:

I had ok fuel pressure at 15psi @ idle and 10psi @ max drop. 

 

Too low yet. Idle is 17 PSI and then WOT 15 PSI. Your losing the overflow valve under load, then losing the cooling part of the fuel flow. 

49 minutes ago, rogerash0 said:

Smoke was up, primarily from wire tap being on from 0% tps on up. I think wire tap min set to 32% would help keep smoke down closer to zero in daily driving situations. 

 

Set you boost limit. Then when the next time you cross your set limit then the Quadzilla will fire up the wiretap when boost goes above the set limit. I typically set it high enough that turbo is spooled up good before adding the wiretap.

 

Now in my economy tune I changed to 15 PSI (point at which it starts) of boost with a 0% lead in (starting at 0% up to 100%, and 40 PSI boost limit (point at which it reaches 100% wire tap)

 

Now in my performance tune I changed to 5 PSI (point at which it starts) of boost with a 10% lead in (starting at 10% up to 100%, and 30 PSI boost limit (point at which it reaches 100% wire tap)

 

No TPS limits used. All boost controlled, starting point, how much lead in, and when its 100%.

 

Boost Scaling - This is the amount of boost needed for 100% wire tap.

Pump low Boost scale PSI - This is the starting point of the wiretap in boost.

Minimum Pump Tap Fueling Percent - This is the amount of lead in fuel tap.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Mopar1973Man

[rogerash0]

13 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Too low yet. Idle is 17 PSI and then WOT 15 PSI. Your losing the overflow valve under load, then losing the cooling part of the fuel flow.

Yeah I know that, but its been impossible ever since I installed the new ad165. They sent out a AD200 to try to remedy the issue. They told me to run my new airdog on the old style base. I tried adding a sump. I have the gas tank well vented. I've tried 3 different sets of lines. I added a power distro block. I tried various relays. I tried the new AD wiring harness and the old airdog wiring harness that came on my truck when it had an airdog 100, which never dropped below 15psi even with the same "50hp" injectors that did drop below 15psi after the D&J motor and compounds went on (my new injectors hard issues). I tried various springs, the viton ball, the plastic ball, changing back to original AD 1 fittings. On and on and on. Only thing I havnt tried is putting the AD100 motor back on. I have AN fittings off the VP 44 pump now (albeit, with used spare that I was told was good). I have changed the overflow valve on the VP44. I have put all new sealing washers on. I havnt changed the return line, however. My next idea is to make my own wiring harness with 10 gauge wire to try to give the pump max voltage. I've chopped their fuse holder out of the harness, as that was melting the plastic around the fuses. I think I have a relay harness somewhere, and I have all the wire and shrink wrap to put a new harness together. Doing that and taking the pump apart to lube all the o-rings for a better seal made the most difference, for lord knows what reason.

 

I also roll with close to a full tank of gas to help give me max pressure when Im testing out tunes and such, for better consistency with fuel pressure. Edit; oh and I've tried two different VP44s, a new II pump and my old reman pump that worked fine. Same fuel pressure probs back to back. 4 different sets of injectors by 3 different people.

 

I'll probably set a boost limit later on, for now I wanted to run the exact tune that ME asked me to run.

Edited July 7, 2020 by rogerash0