New One - truck stalls when moving into gear

[flman]

GUESS WHAT ?? I replaced the battery's - well wife did (see other thread) - NO MORE STALL !! I need to check in morning as this is when I normally start it up - but it doesn't even feel like stalling after sitting for 4 hours !!! WOO HOO So ??? What the heck ???

Thats great, hopefully the problem is solved.

[JOHNFAK]

ok - so this morning after its obviously sat for ~ 10-12 hours it did draw down more than yesterday afternoon. But it didn't stall ....... felt like it was somewhere inbetween. It had been consistently stalling prior to the battery change (for about 5 days). So - I need to think/monitor this a little to see if I can pick up/validate its related to electrical/other ? Is there anyway a faulty/damaged component such as alternator/ac compressor could put a LOAD on the engine when moving from 'P' to 'D' ?? I dunno - didn't think so but if it was electrical ?? ......... Also cause I never paid attention before ....... when I drive - the Voltage in cabometer is dead centre 14V. When I start her up its anywhere between 11-12V ....... thinking thats normal ........ but if its not wondering if that could tie to a bad alternator or ac compressor ?? Still not sure how that would pu a load on engine .... could be clutching at straws here .... Can oreilly's etc do a test on alternator without pulling it ? Or do you have to take it off truck ?

[ISX]

If you have some kind of voltmeter (does that chip on your dash have one somewhere? I know scangauge does) you can see if it goes over 13 after it starts. Mine is pretty instant. Turn your blower motor and brights on and that will give you a ~50 amp load and you should still be over 13v. The gauge on the instrument panel is pretty crappy but if it stays over 14v (on the gauge) the whole time then chances are the alternator is fine. A voltmeter would confirm it more though. I wonder if we could tap into the VP power and see what voltage it has the entire time. Do the same thing on the ECM.

[Mopar1973Man]

Can oreilly's etc do a test on alternator without pulling it ? Or do you have to take it off truck ?

Lot of places can but you might see if the capable of doing a doide test as well. Some of your stall issue might be a shorted diode and AC wave form leaking though. (Crazy ideas)

[JOHNFAK]

I wonder if we could tap into the VP power and see what voltage it has the entire time. Do the same thing on the ECM.

hmm - that would be intersting ................... but along with the voltage side we still have the drop of around 400rpm ?? Is it possible to increase the idle rpm say +100rpm without too much issue ? I know thats not fixing the issue - but would potentially prevent the stall right ?

[ISX]

I am thinking the voltage drops somehow when you put it in D and for that second of engagement it kills the VP. But I am not sure on that. Someone on another forum was talking about increasing idle on the VP and I think they just ran into a wall. I don't think it's possible. Maybe change the ECM programming or something. I'd like to see what the voltage does first. Might end up with another clue on the problem.

[Mopar1973Man]

I am thinking the voltage drops somehow when you put it in D and for that second of engagement it kills the VP. But I am not sure on that. Someone on another forum was talking about increasing idle on the VP and I think they just ran into a wall. I don't think it's possible. Maybe change the ECM programming or something. I'd like to see what the voltage does first. Might end up with another clue on the problem.

Actually your close in figuring it out ISX... I'll give you a clue that there is 2 different ECMs out... Manual ECM has a idle governor and the AUTO doesn't have a idle governor so if something is dragging hard transmission, alternator, A/C etc it might be enough to stall it.

[JOHNFAK]

Actually your close in figuring it out ISX... I'll give you a clue that there is 2 different ECMs out... Manual ECM has a idle governor and the AUTO doesn't have a idle governor so if something is dragging hard transmission, alternator, A/C etc it might be enough to stall it.

Can you turn the a/c off ( i have had it on a lot lately) to prevent clutch from engaging - and disconnect the alternator to see if any difference in drawdown of RPM/voltage. ISX - my edge juice does have a volatage display for ECM - will keep a look out on that http://www.edgeproducts.com/product.php?pk=52&pvk=142 * Engine Control Module Voltage

[ISX]

Can you turn the a/c off ( i have had it on a lot lately) to prevent clutch from engaging - and disconnect the alternator to see if any difference in drawdown of RPM/voltage. ISX - my edge juice does have a voltage display for ECM - will keep a look out on that http://www.edgeproducts.com/product.php?pk=52&pvk=142 * Engine Control Module Voltage

Just turn all the vent controls to off. If you want to take the alternator out of the equation, just pull the 120AMP fuse. You have to take the 2 screws out on either side of it, it doesn't actually "pull out" it is bolted in. All of that will be hot so be aware of that. I don't think you are supposed to run the alternator without a load though.

Actually your close in figuring it out ISX... I'll give you a clue that there is 2 different ECMs out... Manual ECM has a idle governor and the AUTO doesn't have a idle governor so if something is dragging hard transmission, alternator, A/C etc it might be enough to stall it.

You gotta be kidding me! Then that explains my theory perfectly. Let me make it more understandable first. I will assume the new injectors have the same pop off pressure, just bigger holes in the nozzle. So bigger holes mean more flow. Now lets look at the idle operation of an automatic. It is still fueling the same amount it was with stock injectors, but these flow and are bigger so it would be like trying to run an uh, ISX, with my 5.9 lift pump (really extreme I know but you get the point). So it needs a lot of fuel to run, but I am not supplying it with much. In other words, the injector isn't popping off enough at idle. So you put it in D, it is underpowered from the lack of fuel and dies. Well that's one theory but now what do winter and summer fuel have to do with it. Well if you think about the big injectors, they flow so much and yet only have barely enough flow to run them at idle. So when they do pop, they shoot the fuel out very fast, stock injectors were slower because the holes were smaller (like different orifices). Since winter fuel has high cetane, it burns up quickly. With a very short but large flow injection, the fuel would blow up instantly, to the point of burning up completely way before it should. So the summer fuel, having low cetane, took longer to light and was able to stay burning up to a more efficient duration. Now SASQCH didn't have any symptoms, the load instantly killed it. But after seeing Johns just peter out and die, that makes me think it is not getting enough fuel or an inefficient burn duration. Maybe this whole theory is too far out to be true I kept trying to understand why the thing wasn't compensating but you said the auto's don't compensate, just like mine, like it just goes back until it hits a screw (computerized screw lol). So now it really has me wondering. Hmm, are the injector internals also bigger? So if it reaches pop off, it expels all that fuel, then has to fill alllll that space again, and maybe at idle it isn't able to fill that space so it doesn't even get the next pop injection squeezed off.

[guesswho512]

I will assume the new injectors have the same pop off pressure, just bigger holes in the nozzle. So bigger holes mean more flow. Now lets look at the idle operation of an automatic. It is still fueling the same amount it was with stock injectors, but these flow and are bigger so it would be like trying to run an uh, ISX, with my 5.9 lift pump (really extreme I know but you get the point). So it needs a lot of fuel to run, but I am not supplying it with much. In other words, the injector isn't popping off enough at idle. So you put it in D, it is underpowered from the lack of fuel and dies.

i would think that the bigger holes would pop at the same pressure, flow more/the same amount of fuel, and close close sooner at idle because the bigger holes would flow faster, and reach the pressure at pressure at which they close faster. wouldn't just bigger holes change how it atomizes?

[ISX]

You might be right I'm not sure. My theory is pretty wild Probably thinking about it too much. Either way everyone that has this issue upgraded their injectors and beefed up the trans..

[JOHNFAK]

Yeh - going in circles on this one.

Good news is its not stalling - it is under load (rpm drop) though when she starts though. I changed the config on my edge to montor ECM voltage and basically sat a consistent 13.6-13.8V during startup and into 'D'.

I just find it weird the sequence of events

Injectors->Truck then starts to hard start about week later (feels like battery not fuel/load etc where it ticks for more cycles before it engages engine ) -> Truck then starts stalling.

Replace batteries - no more stalling.

If my gauges are ok (I think they are) my fuel doesn't jump around, 14PSI a WOT at 16-17 normal.

My idle is good around 800-850 rpm.

Just the shifting of gears. Might have to get the alternator checked if I can before leaving on my trip. Else I guess could be a fuel issue - SASQAUCH had that for a little while - new fuel 1 time fixed it and also additive 1 time fixed it.

will keep monitoring - trying to pick up pattern or other ideas.

--- Update to the previous post...

hmm - who's got an auto similar to mine - wonder how much the RPM drops from idle when they move into gear ...........whats a normal drop

[Mopar1973Man]

Mine is solely heat related... Only occurs after high pyro runs... It will start to misfire randomly. Once the pyro cools down to 300-350*F miss is gone most times. I'm going to say it going to be injector related more so... But not sure if its pop pressure, design flaw, etc...

[dieselautopower]

Batteries.... who would have thought they would have been a contributing factor at the beginning of the thread. I'm sure the Stealership would have said to get a new VP44 and the upgraded in-tank pump for $3000 LOL SASQAUCH had a TPS problem I think. Well at least thats the last I heard from him (I may have outdated info), He ordered a TPS from me and installed and he told me it fixed his problem, but he had no TPS codes to start with...

[JOHNFAK]

Yeah - currently it hasn't stalled since ........ does drag down the rpm a little though ......... maybe from 850 to 600 now ..... so 250rpm ...... so guessing itwas 300rpm or more before when stalling. Jacob - any ideas on injectors/pop pressure causing any issues ................. just curious as you probably sell a bunch of them .............. seems to be a bit of a trend with new injectors and this isue - but to be honest - seems like lots of different things are changed so nonone has tied down specifically ......... Anyone mentioned anything to you before ?

[JOHNFAK]

Well - ISX and I replaced the rv275's with the stock injectors last night. Was late so made trip home no issues.This morning was a little cool (seems to stall more when cold) ..... with tranny temp around 57 degrees (seems to stall more when cooler). No stall. So will have to monitor and update over the comming days. But interesting. Thanks for your help ISX - on this and the other stuff (oh is this the place to mention I had all the injector lines, horn, throttle etc off before isx had the cooler relay done ?? a couple of wires - hahahha ) - well its not quite true - but thats my story that I'm sticking with.

[ISX]

How far did the RPM drop this time anyways? I think the most it would drop and not stall was down to 500rpm, if it went any lower it would die. If you didn't need a supervisor to hold your hand, I could have got it done in 5 min I didn't realize the injector lines were that much of a PITA, compared to mine anyways. Good thing I wasn't the one messing with all the line clamps and clamp bolts

[JOHNFAK]

How far did the RPM drop this time anyways? I think the most it would drop and not stall was down to 500rpm, if it went any lower it would die. If you didn't need a supervisor to hold your hand, I could have got it done in 5 min I didn't realize the injector lines were that much of a PITA, compared to mine anyways. Good thing I wasn't the one messing with all the line clamps and clamp bolts

Not sure - maybe 200rpm - from 850 to 600. Seems a little better. So will have to monitor over comming days and see if it feels like its going to stall. Keep u all posted. Yeah that back #6 sucked butt .... and not the good kind (is there a good kind ? ) .......... and yes you did hold my hand all the way through - but you said we wouldn't tell the boys incase that got lost in translation. Will send you some flowers in the morning

[ISX]

:stuned:Annnywhoo lmaoI got a video of that thing when it was on the very brink of stalling. If the trans was any colder, it would have stalled. EGT's go from like 280F to 430F by just putting it in D.

[JOHNFAK]

Annnywhoo lmao

I got a video of that thing when it was on the very brink of stalling. If the trans was any colder, it would have stalled. EGT's go from like 280F to 430F by just putting it in D.

Going to be 47 degrees tomorrow morning ........ will try and see what it goes from(rpm) and to(rpm) as well as tranny temp then.

--- Update to the previous post...

Outside temp was 55. Tranny Temp was 65. Not as cold as I wanted.

Never even looked like stalling.

Gonna have to wait until a real cold morning to test for sure. However it was definately stalling in temps over this - so - between batteries (no idea) and injectors - 'appears' to be fixed. Obviously leaning to injectors.