Yet Another Fog Light Thread

[sleezy]

I know this has been discussed at length, and believe me, I've been through (I think) all the threads on this on multiple sites and just can't seem to get a bead on exactly what's going on with the non-factory-foglight trucks' wiring. I'm in the middle of a pretty extensive interior rehab and figured it's time to finally dive in.

 

I have a 2001 (manual trans, I saw one guy claim that matters?) without factory fogs. I've picked up factory housings/brackets, bumper inserts, and a fog light headlight switch. I do have the harness down by the front bumper. I pulled the headlight switch today, and it looks like the harness runs to the dash too. It also looks like it's plugged into the switch?? Maybe it was just easier to have one housing for both switch types? What's funny is the bulb socket (that I assume is the fog light indicator) is empty.

 

 

 

Can anyone confirm whether that two wire plug is in fact for the fog lights? I think it must be because the back of my old switch is identical to the back of my new switch with the fog light pull out. I'm hoping that means I can just plug in a fuse and probably a relay and get power to the harness at the bumper?

 

Just so it's out there: yes I know I can install a toggle switch. I already have lots of toggle switches throughout the cab. What I'm going for here is factory fog lights with the factory switch. 

[IBMobile]

The brown with yellow tracer (BR/YL) wire in the bottom photo is the ground wire that goes into the headlight switch for the fog light relay in the PDC.  The Black with orange (BK/OR) wire next to it is the ground for the head light switch. 

[dripley]

I would think if you have the factory harness behind the bumber that the other wiring is there. Very much like the wiring for heated power windows was there when I upgraded from manual. All I had to ad was the hvac control with the heated mirror switch plus the adjustment control on the drivers door. All the wiring and connectors were there.

[Silverwolf2691]

Bulb socket is empty because that switch isn't a fog light switch. The rotary switch pulls out for fog lights, says pull with the fog symbol on it, and you can see the fog light symbol that lights up. If you have all the wiring, I think you can get the switch at an advance auto or similar, plug it in and see if it works. Fair warning its like $60-$80 (least it was a few years ago). 

[Mopar1973Man]

@Silverwolf2691is correct. The Fog Light style switch the knob pulls out in the parking lamp position or head light position. 

 

I skipped all that junk setup because you can only have fog lamps in LOW beam only. Hi beams the fog light are cancelled. 

 

My original setup used 2 relay and I had four 100w aircraft landing lights below the bumper. Two bulbs were lo beams and the other two bulbs were hi beam so the second relay got it sense from the fog lamp relay. The turn on relay got sense from the trailer relay. This setup needed a 20 Amp fuse to power this setup.

 

 

Current setup still comes on with the parking lamps. Single toggle to turn them off. But I'm running 18w PIAA LEDs Driving Lights. Way brighter than my Morimoto HIDs and on in both hi and lo beam modes both. I'm only using a 5A fuse on this. 

 

 

 

I draw way less current for lighting. I had way more light than most here. There is nothing about old school halogen bulbs that hold up to any LED or HID lighting. Again the factory fog lamp only work on low beams. Living out here in the forest of Idaho you need lots of light. Not just lo beam with fog lights. 

 

Then for the daytime running I swapped out the turn signal bulb in front for switchback bulbs. With the parking lights on the bulbs light up white. But turn on a turn signal they turn amber and flash. When cancelled they return to white again. Shown in the parking lamp mode and camera shutter speed was enhanced to show the bulb clearly.

 

With my Morimoto D2S HIDs I can cast light out both sides of the highway at least 20 to 50 feet. Then vertically I've seen tops of trees that are 50 to 70 feet tall. Now the PIAAs give a good patch of light out ahead of the truck to see debris in the road or even animal working there way to road edge. 

 

This truck has right at $1,000.00 worth of lighting... Again there isn't much out there that can beat this....

 

Selected D2S lens which have much wider path than the H1 Minis.

https://retroshop.us/collections/custom-lights/products/2g-ram-hid-projector-retrofitted-headlights

 

Selected driving lights because the cast length is longer than fogs. 

https://www.piaa.com/store/p/187-LP530-3-5-LED-Driving-Light-Kit.aspx

Edited July 15, 2021 by Mopar1973Man

[Silverwolf2691]

31 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

I skipped all that junk setup because you can only have fog lamps in LOW beam only. Hi beams the fog light are cancelled. 

 

I fixed the high beam cut out with a fused jumper in place of a relay, ill have to double check what pins I put them in.

 

 

38 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Living out here in the forest of Idaho you need lots of light. Not just lo beam with fog lights.

 

Where I am is semi wooded to nearly claustrophobic with the woods. But we have plenty of state routes at 50+mph that the woods are like a cars width off the road. Then we have some side roads that at certain sections are only comfortable for two motorcycles to pass side by side. When my trucks or my brothers dually are going through there we have to look ahead for other cars because we have to own the road. Oh and the same stretch has 3 full right angle turns one right after another then a blind hill with a corner on top. All because of property lines. That side road is dangerous no matter what, but the state route is where the extra light comes in. Not a lot of street lights on those routes so all you have is what you have on the car.  

[sleezy]

Thanks for the clarification, IBMobile. Dripley, that's the kind of thing I like to hear. I'm hoping it's the same for me.

 

Silverwolf, sorry, I should have been more clear. That's my original headlight switch still hooked up, and the empty bulb socked is directly behind where the foglight indicator is on my replacement switch with fog light pull out:

 

 

 

Michael, always great to hear from you! I've spent many hours trying to figure out what my end game will be for overall front lighting. Currently I have reflector housings that I like the look of, but because they're reflectors I've not been able to find a set of LED bulbs that don't make me feel guilty because I might be dazzling oncoming traffic. So for now I stuck some halogens back in there and luckily I barely ever drive my truck at night.

 

I think ultimately I'll end up with projector housings. I've read Me78569's "Better Headlights" thread and I may go that route. I emailed these guys but they never got back to me, which isn't encouraging: https://thehidfactory.com/product/dodge-ram-94-01-1500-2500-pre-built-retrofitted-led-projector-headlight-assembly-w-harness/. I'll probably put some driving or flood lights in the square holes just inboard of the fog lights on a dedicated switch so that I can make it daytime in front of me when I want to.

 

For now, I've always wished I had factory fog lights, ever since my dad bought this truck brand new. So that's what I'm working toward. It's more about the satisfaction of doing it than anything else. Other upgrades are certainly going to happen as well.

 

 

3 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Then for the daytime running I swapped out the turn signal bulb in front for switchback bulbs. With the parking lights on the bulbs light up white. But turn on a turn signal they turn amber and flash. When cancelled they return to white again. Shown in the parking lamp mode and camera shutter speed was enhanced to show the bulb clearly.

 

I've been running switchback bulbs in my corners for years and I love em. A while back several of the diodes on one bulb failed, so I bought a replacement set. These new bulbs turn off the white entirely when the blinker comes on, so it alternates between yellow/off instead of yellow/white with the blinker. It's more modern, since all new cars do that, but I do miss the alternating yellow/white.

 

 

Once I'm done with my dashboard and driver seat project I'm going to take my front bumper off to install the larger-hole fog light inserts and fog lights, and while I'm at it I'm going to powder coat both bumpers black (to get rid of the last of the chrome) and fix the busted tabs to get rid of the saggy plastic.

Edited July 15, 2021 by sleezy

[Silverwolf2691]

https://www.superbrightleds.com/cat/instrument-cluster-gauge/filter/Reference_Number,NEO4,1,5030:

 

I don't remember the size but this is what I would replace it with. Normal color is green.

measure the part between the copper tabs in the hole and find the one that would fit.

 

I think myself and MoparMan went through retroshop.us for our headlights. Have had them for about 4 years and my only issue was with the Morimoto Motocontrol harness that was included. The pins on the harness side for the relay box connector fit loosely with their counterparts and caused the lights to randomly die and high beams not to work on me. Bent the pins out a bit and problem solved. But that's a Morimoto thing not a retroshop thing.     

 

 

[sleezy]

9 minutes ago, Silverwolf2691 said:

https://www.superbrightleds.com/cat/instrument-cluster-gauge/filter/Reference_Number,NEO4,1,5030:

 

I don't remember the size but this is what I would replace it with. Normal color is green.

measure the part between the copper tabs in the hole and find the one that would fit.

 

Yep, ordered from SBL a couple days ago! Got LEDs for my cluster lights, pillar gauges, headlight switch, HVAC controls. Dome and map lights I did years ago, as well as everything exterior. I'm going to leave the ash tray and cubby in front of the shifter alone since there's no good way to get to them without taking the dash board ALL THE WAY APART. I just realized I forgot the glove box 

[Silverwolf2691]

7 minutes ago, sleezy said:

I'm going to leave the ash tray and cubby in front of the shifter alone since there's no good way to get to them without taking the dash board ALL THE WAY APART.

 The ash tray yes but the cubby should just unscrew from the top and fall out. I replaced the bulb in that. Its a sheet of colored plastic and you cannot put an oversized bulb in there. In fact I think I had to have mine some amount pulled out otherwise the pattern wasnt right.

 

194 for the glove box. Keep the button pushed in for the switch so the bulb doesn't get hot. Switch and bulb are all one piece too, I think I pulled mine all the way out to do it. Dont remember why, was one of the first things I did on the truck 5 years ago.

[sleezy]

38 minutes ago, Silverwolf2691 said:

The ash tray yes but the cubby should just unscrew from the top and fall out.

 

This is what the light in my cubby (in front of the shifter, where the cup holders are for the auto trucks). It looks like it should just pop down. I guess the truck I spent some time with at the bone yard was an auto, so I must have been thinking of only the ashtray light. I don't need a light in there anyway.

 

 

38 minutes ago, Silverwolf2691 said:

194 for the glove box.

 

Nice! I've got some of those laying around from other LED projects.

 

 

Whoa, I just realized that the switch I picked up doesn't have the 'cargo' position... dang. I guess the truck I pulled it from had a brake light only and no cargo lights? Guess I'll have to drop the $60 at rockauto.com for a new switch with fog and cargo. Dang.

 

Edited July 15, 2021 by sleezy

[dripley]

Plug it in and see if the cargo light comes on when rotated all the way up. Might just be an aftermarket short coming.

[sleezy]

8 minutes ago, dripley said:

Plug it in and see if the cargo light comes on when rotated all the way up. Might just be an aftermarket short coming.

 

I guess I could have done that before ordering a new one from Rockauto. It's not aftermarket, I pulled it from a truck in a Pick-n-Pull. I did play with both switches and my original switch definitely has one extra detent spot at the top vs the one I salvaged.

 

Turned out a brand new switch from RA was only $30 before shipping, so it's on it's way. There were options for with and without fog and with and without cargo, so I guess it's a thing.

 

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/dodge,2001,ram+2500+pickup,5.9l+l6+diesel+turbocharged,1366602,electrical-switch+&+relay,headlamp+switch,4472

[sleezy]

I think I have everything either in hand or on its way. Except for the harness that goes from the connector behind the front bumper to each fog light. Part 8 on page 28 in here: https://mopar1973man.com/external-media/pdf/2000Ramparts.pdf

 

 

 

It's discontinued everywhere I've seen online, which should be fine because I can just make my own harness, but maybe someone could help me with a couple things:

- How do I pin out the relay?

- Why do I need a relay in the first place, since there's already one under the hood?

- What is the second pigtail for? What would those three wires connect to? Perhaps it's for early 2nd Gen trucks or maybe Sport trucks and I don't need to worry about it? If it connects to the battery, wouldn't it be just one wire?

 

Thanks, guys.

[IBMobile]

4 hours ago, sleezy said:

- Why do I need a relay in the first place, since there's already one under the hood?

If you have a fog light relay in the PDC and the wires and plug are at the head light switch then may be the connectors for the fog lights are all ready behind the bumper and its plug and play.  Have you looked behind the bumper and under the radiator core support?

[sleezy]

 

On 7/16/2021 at 3:02 PM, IBMobile said:

If you have a fog light relay in the PDC and the wires and plug are at the head light switch then may be the connectors for the fog lights are all ready behind the bumper and its plug and play.  Have you looked behind the bumper and under the radiator core support?

 

Yes I do have the plug at the core support, but it's only a single plug in the middle of the truck. Obviously a harness needs to go from that to the two lights. From what I've been able to find, that harness isn't just a parallel connection to the two bulbs, it looks like there's more to it than that from the drawing I found above.

 

I guess if I run LED bulbs it probably won't matter if there's supposed to be another relay but those three extra wires really have me confused.

 

[LorenS]

That looks a kit to add fogs to a truck that didn't have them so the customer or dealer be guaranteed to have everything needed. For any trucks that didn't get the wiring at the factory.

[dripley]

I would have to agree with @LorenSon the the diagram above. 

[sleezy]

Gotcha, well that would make sense then. Would be great for it to be that simple. 

 

Any chance anyone on this thread has factory fogs and could check to see what exactly runs between that connector under the radiator and each light?

[Mopar1973Man]

Not currently here... If I had a customer vehicle in the yard I would do it in a heart beat but today I've got a Toyota in the yard. Sorry...