Reve X Distance plus

[jlwelding]

Has anyone tried this? Just curious, says 1 oz to 25 gal. For southern eng's in hot weather.

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Right out of ASTM testing labs.

 

There is no benefit to using a higher cetane number fuel than is specified by the engine's manufacturer. The ASTM Standard Specification for Diesel Fuel Oils (D-975) states, "The cetane number requirements depend on engine design, size, nature of speed and load variations, and on starting and atmospheric conditions. Increase in cetane number over values actually required does not materially improve engine performance. Accordingly, the cetane number specified should be as low as possible to insure maximum fuel availability." This quote underscores the importance of matching engine cetane requirements with fuel cetane number!!!

 

This is why I don't use cetane additive. Being my winterized diesel up here is closer to 50 cetane and Dodge requires 45 in the winter. Then 40 cetane summer. Adding more cetane will only reduce MPG number, reduce amount of BTUs per gallon.

[LorenS]

15 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

and Dodge requires 45 in the winter

California, Texas, and apparently Idaho all get better fuel than the rest of us, based on what I've read from the VW TDI diesel nerds. Winter, spring, summer, and fall, large swaths of the nation still get bare minimum fuel with 40-42 cetane, according to them.

 

No BP or CENEX around here has their "premium" diesel. One Costco around here has the Top Tier diesel, so supposedly getting closer to what you have in Idaho. Up in MN there are some Kwik Trips with premium diesel and regular diesel.

 

The BTU reduction depends on whether cetane is raised by adding chemicals to aid in ignition, or by removing the waxes that don't like to light off and also like to plug filters.  The waxes have a lot of BTUs as I understand it. Just like #6 is more energy dense than #2 due to the longer hydrocarbon chains remaining.

[Mopar1973Man]

Secret... Idaho gets it fuel from Salt Lake City UT or Seattle WA. All diesel fuel is raw till it put in the truck. Then all the additive package for what brand of fuel. So the fuel all comes from the same start but when the truck tanks are loaded you have a final product that can ship anywhere. Yeah I did my research right back to where my fuel comes from how it's mixed and what level.

 

As for common PPD (pour point depressant) it common sold under the name Xylene. Yup paint thinner. Use to have a Cennex up here that sold the PPD for ranchers and farmers. I'll have to dig up the photo. Xylene is also used in cetane boosters. Yeah I've done my homework.

 

 

Then as you figure your cetane and everything in the you'll notice on the ASTM labs test scale you find higher the cetane the lower the BTU's. Dark Green is the summer fuel as tested using specs from local fuels. Then the light green is my winter fuel and tested by specs. Then look at the bottom of that for the BTU's and you can see the loss from 43 cetane in the summer to 50 to 53 cetane in the winter. So the last thing I would want to do is add MORE CETANE or ANTI_GEL being our fuel is pretty solid to -30*F which I did one winter left my truck in a field for the night and came back and it fired up a bit rough but no issues. 

 

IIRC... This was local Cennex fuel when I did my study...

Edited January 30, 2022 by Mopar1973Man

[Doubletrouble]

 I typically use the same 2 fuel stops. So far no issues. I add the 2 cycle oil to help lube the vp. Other than that, I don't know a thing about where the fuel comes from. There is a refinery right in toledo so I assume it all comes from there. Don't know for sure the cetane numbers. The clerks at the stations would just have a blank look if asked. Lol

[Mopar1973Man]

1 minute ago, Doubletrouble said:

The clerks at the stations would just have a blank look if asked.

 

Another secret I used. I used the ability I'm with a fire dept to get information for safety study of common household chemical that might be on a ranch or farm. SoI was able to ask that clerk for contact information for the phone number of the company supplying fuel. Then contact them and keep going. Keep asking questions and keep asking for someone with more knowledge of the next thing you want to know. Then you find yourself most likely talking to a refinery at the last step getting the specs of fuel, how the trucks are loaded, etc.  I'll tell you you can waste a good solid day to two days do all this study of just one brand. I did Chevron, Cennex, Maverik, and a few Mom and Pop places too. Just to see if there was anything different.

[Doubletrouble]

 Wow, that's alot of time invested but it did yield good information. Worth it.......

[Mopar1973Man]

That was the thing that trigger that study was even with 2 cycle oil as a lube for the fuel I had people dumping mass amount of cetane booster on washing out the effect of the 2 cycle oil still getting P0216 codes and other pump issues. This what stemmed off the lube study deep and then the cetane study of local fuels to find out what is actually needed for trouble free operation through the winter time. So in 439k miles I've never gelled up once. But I've go one of the coolest running VP44 my fuel temp is lower than most. But since I kept my stock fuel filter I still got a fuel heater and collect warmth for the fuel from the manifold. This done by the coolant passage that is near the stock fuel filter this why I ALWAYS suggest you keep your stock filter in the northern states or anyone that travel in the snow.

 

In 439k miles on The Beast (2002 Dodge) last VP44 lasted 243k miles. 

• Never used cetane booster - Why do I want to reduce the BTU content?
• Never used Anti-Gel products - Why add in more paint thinner to ruin the lubricity of the fuel to keep it flowing?
• ALWAYS bought quality fuels that I knew met the grade (after study of course)
• ALWAYS used 3um filters on the AirDog and 7um filter in the stock location. Double filtered.

Again as ASTM labs states...

 

There is no benefit to using a higher cetane number fuel than is specified by the engine's manufacturer. The ASTM Standard Specification for Diesel Fuel Oils (D-975) states, "The cetane number requirements depend on engine design, size, nature of speed and load variations, and on starting and atmospheric conditions. Increase in cetane number over values actually required does not materially improve engine performance. Accordingly, the cetane number specified should be as low as possible to insure maximum fuel availability." This quote underscores the importance of matching engine cetane requirements with fuel cetane number!!!

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by Mopar1973Man

[Doubletrouble]

 I will have a similar set up. Frame mounted pump with pre pump screen filter, keeping the oem filter for the heat benefit in the winter months. I just won't have the airdog system you have. At least not for now. Maybe next time.

 I don't remember what the filtration number was on the replacement filter in the oem housing. It was a wix, that's all I remember.

[Mopar1973Man]

Another common one I used to pull over for every Cummins diesel along the highway to assist. 90% of the time I found couple of punk kids in the cab barrowed Daddy's Farm truck and since the truck was low on fuel snagged a bit of red dye fuel or possible a full tank. Then took off. Typically in a few miles it gels up because typically most farmers dont use all the diesel up and get winterized fuel in. So now the kids think its a free ride to go have fun with Daddy truck but now get stuck because the fuel is summer fuel and gelled up. Really common out here. 

[Doubletrouble]

 Yeah, I can believe that. We had some red diesel left over here from summer farm work. I put some anti gel in it just in case we needed to use the diesel tractor over winter for something.

[Mopar1973Man]

Exactly... 

[jlwelding]

21 hours ago, LorenS said:

California, Texas, and apparently Idaho all get better fuel than the rest of us, based on what I've read from the VW TDI diesel nerds. Winter, spring, summer, and fall, large swaths of the nation still get bare minimum fuel with 40-42 cetane, according to them.

 

No BP or CENEX around here has their "premium" diesel. One Costco around here has the Top Tier diesel, so supposedly getting closer to what you have in Idaho. Up in MN there are some Kwik Trips with premium diesel and regular diesel.

 

The BTU reduction depends on whether cetane is raised by adding chemicals to aid in ignition, or by removing the waxes that don't like to light off and also like to plug filters.  The waxes have a lot of BTUs as I understand it. Just like #6 is more energy dense than #2 due to the longer hydrocarbon chains remaining.

How do you find out who has the premium diesel around ?

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Premium diesel is nothing more than high cetane diesel. 

 

Quote

 

What’s the difference between standard #2 diesel and premium fuel?

A premium diesel has a higher cetane number, better lubricity and includes detergents that provide injector-cleaning capability versus standard #2 diesel. Cetane measures a fuel’s ignition delay. Higher cetane equals a shorter delay and better ignition quality for quicker start-ups and less pollution. Lubricity improver is used to reduce the friction and wear of fuel pump and injector components under pressure, which extends the life of the fuel pump and reduces downtime. Detergents keep fuel injectors clean for optimal engine performance.

 

 

Just to tear this statement apart some more... higher cetane is lower energy content of course just means you need to buy more fuel to travel the same distance of course fuel company will talk this up as a bonus. Better lubricity that's laughable being that all US fuel is ~520 HFRR which is sub-standard for lubricity which <460 HFRR which Bosch recommends for would optimal, Detergents another laughable statement injector cleaners don't even work in high concentrations. Actually it would help to keep everything cleaner with double filters at 3um... Chemical cleaners don't work...

 

As ASTM grade scale shows high cetane the lower the BTU's... Dark green is summer fuel and light green is the winterized or what they call premium diesel. Just can't change that function higher the cetane value the lower the BTU's per gallon. Just for info at about 120k BTUs/Gallon is gasoline (high octane).Just look at the right side of the graph for the cst value that is the viscosity of the fuel in centistokes and higher the cetane the thinner the fuel at 100*F. Just for reference distilled water is a centistoke value of 1.0038, then 10w engine oil is 1,295 centistokes max. The other odd value is weight the more energy content the heavier the fuel is. 

 

Quote

The cetane level of diesel fuel rates the ease of ignition, horsepower, and fuel economy and relates to its overall weight. When achieved through the refining process, a higher cetane number results in higher API gravity and lower density in fuel. This means that diesel in the U.K. would have a lower weight range of 6.95-7.04 lbs compared to the U.S. since the minimum cetane rating in Europe is higher than in other countries. 

 

Cennex Diesel Fuel (USA)

 

Dark Green - 43 cetane, 133,000 BTU's per gallon, 3.2 Centistokes viscosity, +14*F pour point.

Light Green - 53 cetane 126,000 BTU's per gallon, 1.8 Centistokes viscosity, -25*F pour point.

 

Then again... Go back to this post in this thread...

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Mopar1973Man

[LorenS]

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

higher cetane is lower energy content

It is SOMETIMES lower energy content, as you correctly show in your graphs.
There are two ways to raise the cetane, one is by removing the longer hydrocarbon chains in the refinery which indisputably does equal lower BTU/lb.  The other way is to add a small amount of "cetane booster" like 2-ethyl hexyl nitrate to act sort of like "kindling".

 

If 7,000 BTU/gallon of energy in 25 gallons of fuel was suddenly removed by dumping in 1 ounce of booster, I think you'd have a real problem on your hand.  Energy can be neither created nor destroyed, but can be transferred, right?  So IF that energy is removed from the fuel, where does it go?  If you dump in 1 ounce of this product it would release a substantial amount of energy.

25 gallons x 7,000 BTU/gallon = 175,000 BTU

25 gallons x 7.1 lbs/gallon = 177.5 lbs

Specific heat of diesel is ~.5 BTU/lb-F

 

By my calculations the fuel would experience a temperature rise of nearly 2,000 degrees F.  Considering that 175,000 BTU is enough energy to turn about 175 pounds of water into steam, I trust my calculation.

 

You say that you get 50 cetane fuel at the pump so cetane boosters aren't needed, but for those of us that reportedly get 40-42 cetane fuel even if the local weather is in the single or negative digits, what is the recommendation?

[Doubletrouble]

 I want to ask a side question, @Mopar1973Man man states his filters are 3um. I'm familiar with the "micron" rating. Is um an abbreviated term for micron or something different?

[LorenS]

18 minutes ago, Doubletrouble said:

Is um an abbreviated term for micron

Yes. The Greek letter "µ" (mu) means millionth.  The "m" is for meter.  It's far easier to use our common alphabet, so we use "um".

[Silverwolf2691]

"u" is the standard alphabet way of saying mu (pronounced mew)

 

Proper form is "µ" (alt + 230 if you want to type it on a keyboard)

 

In the common rail world and slightly in the vp44 world, its said as "u.s." (as in U.S.A.) and in reference to microseconds. (this much of a second: 0.000001). said when talking about duration for common rails and wire tap with the Quadzilla. 

 

1 Micron is one millionth of a meter or 0.000039 of an inch. Our 2 micron and 3 micron filters could be used to theoretically filter bacteria and blood.

 

Sorry tangent.. um is a way of abbreviating micron, yes. Properly done it should be µm, but idk if mobile devices can put the "µ" in from the symbol keyboard. (I'm on desktop right now..)

 

@LorenS you posted just as I hit post.. think we both got all the bases covered 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Silverwolf2691

[LorenS]

8 minutes ago, Silverwolf2691 said:

idk if mobile devices can put the "µ" in from the symbol keyboard

If so, I certainly can't find it.

Found these, though!

∅0ⁿ 27⁰ ü ú û ñ ç æ ß ¡ ₱ № <± €∞♪♥

 

I found it! Touch and hold Pi, to get μ.

[Silverwolf2691]

iOS?

 

Galaxy S20+ doesnt have Pi..... or µ