Low Oil pressure after injector change

[YeaImDylan]

Hey all, back again! lol 

 

So, I got my DAP 150's in and there seems to be yet another issue. Truck sat for a few weeks and then I got to doing the injectors and changed the oil and filter (had a lot of fuel in the oil). Put 3 gallons in, got the truck started (checked oil level before, was above operating range) and truck drove and ran great with the new injectors. Was getting about 60-70 PSI cold and once she was warm she was at about 40, but then she went to about 35-38 while cruising at 60. At the stop light, It was right above the lower limit line on the dash gauge. Got to my destination ASAP and shut her down. Looked for major leaks or anything and didn't see anything going on. I went and ate and then came back after an hour and checked oil level and it seemed to be below the point on the dip stick... I'm planning to get a mechanical gauge and fill it up til I'm in operating range and then start it up, get it warm, etc and monitor it. One of my friend's believes that it sitting for a few weeks drained the head, galleys, etc and I got more oil out than usual and then put the 3 gallons in. I also spilled some off the head because I put the new oil in with the VC off and didn't realize some was going over the edge  I don't believe I let 2+ quarts go over though. I'm afraid maybe running a few miles with fuel in the oil ruined my bearings or maybe ruined the seal on the turbo. Planning to check for oil in the downpipe here too. 

 

If any clarification is needed after this ramble, please don't hesitate to ask!

 

Thank you,

Dylan

[Mopar1973Man]

Let me toss in oil pressure specs for ya.

 

Idle is 10 PSI or better

2,000 RPM is 30 PSI or better

 

Might hook up the trans sensor on the Quadzilla in the oil test port and see what your running oil temp is. I typically see right now 158 to 165°F in engine oil temp for 195°F coolant temp.

[jlwelding]

Well just so happens I didnt like my stock gauge so I went out and bought a oil pressure gauge to see whats up. I havent ran it hard or anything just down the road about 6 miles and at idle its 28 and cruising its 65 but during the summer Im sure its going to go lower. Will update this better tomorrow. Cold its like 75

[YeaImDylan]

16 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Let me toss in oil pressure specs for ya.

 

Idle is 10 PSI or better

2,000 RPM is 30 PSI or better

 

Might hook up the trans sensor on the Quadzilla in the oil test port and see what your running oil temp is. I typically see right now 158 to 165°F in engine oil temp for 195°F coolant temp.

I'll try and see if I can find the trans temp sensor. I didn't buy/install the harness myself, it had come with the truck.

 

For the oil pressure specs, I've seen them and I know I'm in spec but it just scares me since before I did the injectors it was consistently much higher while cold and at temp. I checked yesterday afternoon with a mechanical gauge off the filter housing and in about 50* weather I was getting maybe 40 psi on both the dash and mech gauge. I had a bit of blue smoke upon startup as well. One friend passed the blue smoke off as residual from the injector swap but I had driven it 10miles after doing the injectors.

[wil440]

1 hour ago, YeaImDylan said:

One friend passed the blue smoke off as residual from the injector swap

don't bother with that friend, as that blue would be gone in seconds if there was ever going to be any

 

If you had "a lot of Fuel in oil" change it again, an oil change does not remove all fuel in a heavily contaminated engine, oil and filter again and then see, yes @Mopar1973Man gave you oil pressure specs but if it Is a HUGE amount lower than what it was before the fuel contamination then expect wiped crank bearings

[YeaImDylan]

13 minutes ago, wil440 said:

don't bother with that friend, as that blue would be gone in seconds if there was ever going to be any

 

If you had "a lot of Fuel in oil" change it again, an oil change does not remove all fuel in a heavily contaminated engine, oil and filter again and then see, yes @Mopar1973Man gave you oil pressure specs but if it Is a HUGE amount lower than what it was before the fuel contamination then expect wiped crank bearings

Seems to be about a 10-20 PSI difference. I'll try changing the oil again since there was a lot of fuel in there. I only ran it for maybe 10 miles until I noticed the problem. I've heard of guys blowing something and losing a ton of oil and getting home and the bearings and all that are fine and not catastrophic. Just unsure of what to do next. May just try getting rid of it and buying a non-molested 2nd gen from some older guy whos had it since he bought it new.

[wil440]

3 minutes ago, YeaImDylan said:

Seems to be about a 10-20 PSI difference. I'll try changing the oil again since there was a lot of fuel in there. I only ran it for maybe 10 miles until I noticed the problem. I've heard of guys blowing something and losing a ton of oil and getting home and the bearings and all that are fine and not catastrophic. Just unsure of what to do next. May just try getting rid of it and buying a non-molested 2nd gen from some older guy whos had it since he bought it new.

Just take a little time.....  If you have the same oil grade that is in it now just take a feel between whats in it and whats in the still new jug/drum/whatever at the same temp and see what the difference is.

Ideally take a amount down a slope and see what the difference is, this could be a piece of card propped up against something to create a slope then put a amount of  old oil on it and time it against the same amount of the same grade new oil this is how viscosity is calculated on an oil sample at a lab but a lot more technical

 

Or just send a sample of to a oil analysis lab, cat are really good at this 

There is a lot more experience on here regarding ram trucks than me but I doubt there is many that have 45 years diagnosing problems in the field from cars to 150 ton dumptrucks, excavators, dozers, etc

 

Most important advice is take your time, diagnose and test your diagnosis and test again to be sure, this is from the Caterpillar field service training course of which I have done and whilst it really pains me to say works every time.

 

Have you got a Cat dealer close by, if so call in a grab a single sample kit, take the sample and post it off

[jlwelding]

These lower ends are tough as hell, I dont see doing damage in ten miles unless you were dogging the hell out of it. Like wil440 said take your time, do oil sample. Even after you drained the oil the new oil will have bearing residue in it and the lab will see it. Thats the best thing to do.

[YeaImDylan]

20 hours ago, jlwelding said:

These lower ends are tough as hell, I dont see doing damage in ten miles unless you were dogging the hell out of it. Like wil440 said take your time, do oil sample. Even after you drained the oil the new oil will have bearing residue in it and the lab will see it. Thats the best thing to do.

Yes, guy I was talking to said he ran his like 30 miles and something caused it to lose a ton of oil and he got home and drained only about half a gallon out. He rebuilt the engine later and the bearings weren't even that bad even after that disaster. I have a guy who will hopefully be helping me figure out what's going on. Gonna get it towed to his house hopefully this week and we'll go over it and put new oil in as well. I'll see if there's a dealer for oil samples around here. Truck seems to also have blue smoke now when I start it up. Can't remember if I mentioned that. I wouldn't think a few miles would've erased the rings that quickly. Before she wasn't chugging like a train or anything out the valve cover and still isn't. Just had a vapor rolling out. Is it possible the valve seals went? All these new problems are stressing me the hell out lol and I'm not sure what to do next. Can't sell the truck in this condition and I'm pretty opposed of just dropping it off at a shop and letting them figure it out for a couple grand.

[wil440]

Please don't take this the wrong way

 

Don't get carried away, as right now all you know for sure is oil pressure is down from where it was, there is absolutely no point in speculating until you have hard facts in hand, me personally I wouldn't tow it anywhere until a oil sample has been done and I wouldn't mess around with any other kit other than a Cat sample.

The kit part number here in the UK  is SOS 001P not sure about the USA part numbers but found this https://www.ebay.com/p/10008251087?iid=183400178793

 

The sample results will show any fuel in the oil down to next to nothing, it will also show any wear metals in the parts per million range so

lead is bearing white metal

copper is the white metal backing

Steel is crank, bearing shell 

You can pretty much then decide what is/has happened by the sample

Ideally you want to see fuel contamination still, this would be a reason for the low oil pressure and minimal wear metals

I would also advise you get at least 2 kits or at least find a supplier that you will be able to grab another later on as if the first sample comes back lets say with fuel and wear metals depending on how much a Cat lab would recommend action like "change oil and resample in 100hrs"  or "further investigation is required"   with fuel contamination you would sample more than once to be sure you fixed the fuel leak 

 

I'll say it again "don't panic YET" 

[Silverwolf2691]

@wil440, thank you for explaining the oil sample material breakdown. I've wanted to do that for my truck but if all I get is a material list with materials and numbers with no explanation, its not helpful to me.

 

@YeaImDylan, the blue smoke is likely oil past the valve seals. My truck does the same thing. #1 intake valve seal is moving with the valve stem, instead of staying still.

 

13 hours ago, YeaImDylan said:

Yes, guy I was talking to said he ran his like 30 miles and something caused it to lose a ton of oil and he got home and drained only about half a gallon out. He rebuilt the engine later and the bearings weren't even that bad even after that disaster.

 

I was sled pulling on a gallon of oil at one point this year. I'm not proud it at all. Only indication was low oil pressure..

 

The semi saving grace of diesel fuel is that it is (I don't know a better way of putting this..) more slippery than gasoline. So it doesn't immediately kill all the lubrication of the oil when the fuel gets in.

 

Blackstone labs is a popular choice for oil analysis, Amsoil sells sample kits but makes no mention of them doing an analysis. 

[wil440]

13 minutes ago, Silverwolf2691 said:

@wil440, thank you for explaining the oil sample material breakdown. I've wanted to do that for my truck but if all I get is a material list with materials and numbers with no explanation, its not helpful to me.

There is more on a good oil sample analysis but for low oil pressure those few will do, might see chromium, aluminium, silicon  and more

Here is a Cat sample, you will see why I prefer to use Cat

510621404_DHC02870_A_0.pdf

Notice the comment at the very bottom, this would be different on a bad sample, if there was fuel lets say, It might recommend investigation and an oil change and resample in 100hrs

 

If silicon was high it would recommend checking intake for leaks

 

Bearing in mind everything I service Heavy Plant wise is sampled every 500hrs, every compartment, only engine oil is changed at every service all other oils are changed on Lab results, saves a fortune in oil,  300 gallon of hydraulic oil is not unknown so if it is still clean at 5000hrs that has saved a lot of money

[YeaImDylan]

So, do you guys believe it’s worth sampling the oil when that was fresh and only has about 10 miles on it? And probably a gallon of diesel in it as well? I am certain there’s diesel in there once again but I’m not sure if it would show wear that quickly to get a good guess of what could be damaged ( if anything is damaged). I’ll do the sample if you all think it’s worth doing with only 10 miles on it, then investigate into the pump shaft seal being blown out or injector installed wrong and hopefully fix the issue. Then change the oil and run it for a bit with no fuel leaking into it and then do another sample. 

[jlwelding]

Yes it will tell you the history of contaminants and you can go forward with info. Right now I would say a bunch of educated guesses. If you certain it has diesel then deal with that when the sample comes back to give you evidence eng damage has occurred. The diesel can be fixed from the outside anything else your going in. 

[wil440]

So lets get this straight, it has fresh oil in it at the moment and it has done about 10 miles ?

 

You think there might be a gallon of fuel in the engine right now ?  is the oil level way up the dipstick ?  

 

I think you need to go right back to the beginning and change oil and filter and make sure it is right on the full mark as it seems you don't know for sure how much oil against how much fuel is in there as you weren't sure on the oil level right at the beginning of this.

Park the truck on level ground and change oil/filter make sure the oil level is at a mark on the dipstick you can identify, start the engine let it run until oil pressure comes up then stop it and let the oil settle back to the sump for a few minutes and then check and top up to your mark again, run it again for 5 to 10 minutes without moving the truck, shut off and let oil settle then check, you are looking for a large increase in oil level (blown VP seal will increase LVL quickly)  do this a few more times and for longer IF you see no increase but don't forget you need to allow the oil time to settle between running and checking.

Once you feel happy that you have no big fast increase in oil level take it for a very short run and do the same again, if everything is ok and oil lvl doesn't increase run it for longer but keep checking.

IF level stays the same run it as normal but keep checking, once it has done say 100 miles then sample it, the result may show fuel but in very small % due to not  being able to drain all oil out.

 

IF oil level comes up at any point don't run it far and investigate

 

The key to good diagnosis is to start off from a known point

There is good chance you waste oil and filter doing this but that's better than crank/bearings or $$ thrown at a problem that may or may not exist