Angry & can't do it anymore, serious iQuad timing issues

[Stanley]

So for how ever long I've had my back to going normally, I cannot get my timing and everything thing else figured out. I been talking, chatting with @Mopar1973Man for quite a bit over the past month plus and give him all the credit for getting me thus far, however I figured asking additional input wouldnt hurt. 

 

My egt's are through the roof! 800-900* cruising 65 mph. Slight hill or Itty bitty incline 1100*. Lord help me if I wanna pass or just even getting up to speed 1500* 

Oil and coolant always the same 195* give or take. Oil should be cooler. Engine load now seems to be 19-20 going 65 mph. 

I think this is what I was running yesterday and this morning. I have tweaked it a bit since so...

I believe timing was 14,18,22,25,26 or some where close lol, it's been all-over the place lately; it doesn't matter it's all wrong and I'm just to dumb to fix this. Please be gentle.... 

 

I seriously need all the help I can get. I'm losing my mind. I want a nice daily that has a little pep than stock, just to start. I can't get there... sig is up to date, (new IJ pump not tapped), turbo and injectors billing the big contributing factors here. I will admit that I will have to compromise something for something and big injectors don't usually help egts and mpg but come on 900-1500* and 11 mpg ??? What gives?

Oh and I really don't get any black smoke for what it is **testing purposes only**

That will later become a inevitable side effect when a race tune is born.

 

Idea i had.....I'd be open to doing a screen share with iQuad while driving...

[Stanley]

Here's where I was at by the time I got to work this morning after some messing with it more... give or take a smidge on the numbers, theres nothing flat in southern Missouri... lol

[Me78569]

i'd be adding more timing I be trying to hit 30* by 3k rpm with your setup.   you have a lot of fuel that needs to be burnt.   

 

I'd do 15*,19*,25*,30*,32* If it will let you, I don't remember max anymore.

 

 

 

[Stanley]

21 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

I'd do 15*,19*,25*,30*,32* If it will let you, I don't remember max anymore.

 

That sounds like a plan, Ill plug that in when I leave work today and check it out. So I assume Id be taking out the cruise timing to 0*.... Leaving 2k at 19* will still keep me in the same ball park for egts though? 

[Silverwolf2691]

I'll upload my timing setup at lunch or after work, but I have a lot lower timing curve for my daily tune.

 

I think the 4.10s might be throwing things off.. Possibly the HO engine as well.. 

 

You just replied as I was typing but try leaving the timing where it is and adding 2° to cruise. At highway speeds I'm around 21-22° of cruise timing. On flat ground I can get down to 450-550°F for egts. 45-55 mph is where my truck likes 18-19° of timing (285/70r17s though)

 

This was with my hx35 and +50s. Right now I'm way under fueled with my 62/68/14 and 50s.. 

[Me78569]

my truck liked timing at cruise of 20-21* so I would leave cruise timing at 1-2* and then put your load limit at ~%5-%10 above your typical cruise load.   higher timing will help egt's by putting the hot gasses in the cylinder rather than in the exhaust manifold.  

 

 

lastly data log if you are having issues so we can see where EGT's are spiking related to TPS, load, fueling, rpm and timing.

 

 

also I need to ask when did you put in the 6 x .013's and turbo?  something else might be going on to cause Egt issues,  heck you might even have a bad EGT probe,  

Edited March 29, 2022 by Me78569

[Stanley]

The turbo has been on for 6 years or so, just rebuilt it last year. If yall remember I had those 6x18's and the dragon flow when everything went down hill; after the 5th or sixth set of 6x13's with in the last couple months these seem to be doing ok as far as no misfire etc. So there pretty much new I'd say. I have a mechanical egt gauge in my pillar pod and then the digital egt  through the iquad, both are roughly the same, mechanical might be a few degrees higher but nothing crazy. Not to say they cant be wrong, when I firt got the iquad the egt gauge quit working so got a warranty replacement and so good so far, the mechanical gauge does "stop" once in a blue moon, tap the kick panel and its back on haha... 

Ill try that additional cruise timing, if I remember right last time I had timing up in the 21* range my engine load increased and so did egts, but this timing change might help so well see. 

[Me78569]

ok just covering bases to ensure we aren't missing anything outside of tuning.  

[Stanley]

Well drive wasn't so good, had absolutely no power getting up to speed,thought I might have to pull off interstate, even pedal to the floor-nothing. 

Acts Like it's an apps issue but it's not. Somethings not jiving in this setup.

@Me78569 Timing was as mentioned:

15, 19, 25, 28, 30 - (30 is max fyi)

Took pics of the readings again, tried to export the data log when I got home but the app crashed...crashes....

I have my canbus fueling starting really low, left that the same for this test. 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Stanley

[tucothelegend]

Where are the EGT probes mounted? Both of mine are mounted in the outlet as you can see. You also want to set the MS to 1200....With EGT'S that high and the probes working properly, you have to be burning fuel out the exhaust manifold (to much fuel and not enough air). Or it could be you are not getting the exhaust out. As a side with the setup you have, how much max boost can you make? I have a K27 turbo, head studs, 7x9's , and can make 47psi of boost @ full fueling, and never see 1600* EGT'S. Mike (mopar1973man) has helped me with my truck and I can cruise @ 75 TO 80 mph and get 19 mpg and the EGT'S are 625*  and the timing is 22.5. Here in the Phoenix area it is warm most of the time. (HOT AIT OF 127* and everyone drives fast) Load at that speed is 21-23, cruise psi is 5 or so.Also you have to run on level 2 to get MPG. Level 7 max performance. Canbus reads 850-1000 most of the time on level 2. Hope this helps....

Edited March 29, 2022 by tucothelegend

[Stanley]

@tucothelegend my egt probes are exactly where yours are. 

I mean this is the 6th set of injectors so they could be not spraying/atomizing correctly causing fuel dump, which I have had during all this in the start.

Idk what I could do for the exhaust out? Hood stack 🤣🤣

Got the 5in tbe plus pdi manifold.

As far as boost goes, when I had DF pump, comp box, 6x18's, (same turbo) I pegged the 60 psi gauge. Truck ran great! Smoked like a friggin frieght train though jeezz

 

Currently idk? It will flow it yes but nothing is set to kill mode yet and obviously figuring this out will help

 

I'd be happy with 600* cruising and not going over 1200 with some pedal...

Lord help me if I actually tapped the pump and threw some fuel at it right now, it'd just burn down...

 

I figured the truck would smoke with these injectors and I could clean it up with quad. Never once has it smoked (rolled coal) getting on it with any iquad setup, like one would think or see. Yea it will have some puffs but 6x13s come on...it should be very smokey/evident- "as the nature of the beast"... that being said, why isn't it?

[Silverwolf2691]

Might be running into the issue of too little fuel per psi.. my 50s on my normal tune can push 1000*  before my turbo spools, then you can watch the egts drop a bit.. still need to figure it out.

 

Have you tried "going stupid" with a tune? Start at like 115 go up like 5% each psi.. probably get hot but might help you narrow down what you need.. Add some wire tap to the mix to see what happens too. Whoops.. Just saw you havent tapped the pump yet..

 

More fuel might actually help cool things down.. more fuel isnt correct, more boost at cruise might be beneficial..

 

Your turbo also passively flows a lot through the turbine so it needs more exhaust flow to stay up on boost. The 71 turbine is known as a low drive pressure turbine so it is a lag pig but stays cooler on the top end. Add the 14 housing and that compounds things even more.. 

[tucothelegend]

It sounds like it is the injectors. They may be just a poor product.... I use DDP INJECTORS. Hate to say you may need different companies injectors. The DAP product guy maybe can help. Call Power Driven Diesel they may help also.

[Stanley]

6 minutes ago, tucothelegend said:

It sounds like it is the injectors. They may be just a poor product.... I use DDP INJECTORS. Hate to say you may need different companies injectors. The DAP product guy maybe can help. Call Power Driven Diesel they may help also.

 

It sucks cause these guys have always treated me good and I like their service, these injectors are brand new for all intensive purposes, can't afford to just get another set unfortunately...

10 minutes ago, Silverwolf2691 said:

Your turbo also passively flows a lot through the turbine so it needs more exhaust flow to stay up on boost. The 71 turbine is known as a low drive pressure turbine so it is a lag pig but stays cooler on the top end. Add the 14 housing and that compounds things even more.. 

This is true, I'd like to add another turbo but it seems this one is too much in the middle for everything. To big for primary and to small for secondary. Never had twins before so it would be a learning curve but we'll worth it...

 

13 minutes ago, Silverwolf2691 said:

Have you tried "going stupid" with a tune? Start at like 115 go up like 5% each psi.. probably get hot but might help you narrow down what you need.. Add some wire tap to the mix to see what happens too. Whoops.. Just saw you havent tapped the pump yet..

You know I was thinking the same thing this morning, I actually text @Mopar1973Man sun or mon about too little fuel, thinking i was crazy. It makes sense honestly.

 

Not go to wild, maybe start at 100 an go up by 2%...??

If I do that I wonder if I should keep that current timing listed above... That's prolly a @Me78569 question...

[Silverwolf2691]

Infinte performance would be my next step if you want to go the injector route. Unfortunately hes expensive, but hes worth the money.

 

Im still trying to figure out my fueling but think its more about an aggressive ramp after a flat spot for smoke.. Timing is gonna play a part here too. Keeping a bit of boost while cruising is gonna be helpful but the turbo might be too big to cruise with boost. Hmmmm.. 

 

I run a 2% ramp on mine.. 

 

If you want to go stupid, 90% then +5% each one to 150%. My sled pull tune with the hx35 and 50s was 115 at 0psi then +5% to 150%. Its possibly gonna get toasty so be careful.

 

A 12cm housing would be a step in the right direction. Personally, i would say either 64.5/73.4/12 or the 64.5/68/(12/14). Depends on what you are looking for in the end. Not my money though.. Worse comes to worse drop down turbo size and injectors, but thats not fun lol, but if its unbearable...

[Me78569]

Somethings not right if you couldn't get up to speed with those minor changes to tuning.  I don't know that I think this is a tune issue.  

 

 

[Stanley]

13 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

Somethings not right if you couldn't get up to speed with those minor changes to tuning.  I don't know that I think this is a tune issue.  

 

 

What else could it be? 

The other timing I had put in I atleast had full pedal to work with, now it just falls flat, hardly any boost at all. It seemed to have some get up around 3k but it had fuel then... maybe 70% is too low? 

Me and Moparman discussed the slim possibility of previous owner having a smarty locked on to it, but I'd say that's a very slim chance...

 

I'm losing it here... I just wanna drive the dang thing...

[Silverwolf2691]

70-80% range through 10 psi? Definitely not gonna get out of its own way.. thats part of the reason why I say try going big and pull back.

 

Smarty would smoke like a bastard regardless because of how quick it fuels right?

[Stanley]

Idk really, I hope there's nothing latched to it. I think it would be more evident if it was though, not sure just wishful thinking. 

 

Idk what to do now...

 

I guess maybe start at 100% and go up with same timing and see what happens. Unless someone has any different suggestions.

[Silverwolf2691]

We've thrown a lot at you, I think it's worth going through what ideas are here before adding more. Start with the simple stuff right now like the fuel curve. Then when you find a curve that works we can move onto timing.