Squeak/Screech noise in reverse only

[Mopar1973Man]

Time to pull the drums... 

[JAG1]

Sounds like they are down to the rivets to me.

Edited July 7, 2022 by JAG1

[wil440]

Just listened to the vid and that sounds like a drum brake noise to me, I'd be taking the drums off, sounds like a brake shoe spring to me

 

I recently rotated my tyres and while wheels were off fronts got new pads ( I have a 100 sets.... NO JOKE)

 

Took the drums off of the rears and wheel cylinder just started to leak one side and hub seal the other side a little wet

Visited Rockauto and ordered 4 of the correct wheel cylinders, 4 of the chevy upgrade cylinders, and 4 hub seals (whenever I order from Rock I order more than I need, spreads the shipping costs)

[JAG1]

6 hours ago, wil440 said:

Just listened to the vid and that sounds like a drum brake noise to me, I'd be taking the drums off, sounds like a brake shoe spring to me

 

I recently rotated my tyres and while wheels were off fronts got new pads ( I have a 100 sets.... NO JOKE)

 

Took the drums off of the rears and wheel cylinder just started to leak one side and hub seal the other side a little wet

Visited Rockauto and ordered 4 of the correct wheel cylinders, 4 of the chevy upgrade cylinders, and 4 hub seals (whenever I order from Rock I order more than I need, spreads the shipping costs)

Can I look thru your garage? AKA 'wil440 Auto Parts' !

[wil440]

6 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

Can I look thru your garage? AKA 'wil440 Auto Parts' !

  I have 110 active Ebay listings which are Ram parts or Cat parts then maybe about  the same amount I haven't got around to listing yet 

 

I'm nearly retired got to do something to top up the beer and my truck fund

[Andyba20]

A quick follow up- I finally got the drum off using the ol’ brake slamming trick (after soaking with penetrating oil and tapping with a hammer for an hour didn’t work). I’m not exactly sure of the mechanics of the self adjuster, but I’m guessing this is why I was getting the noise in reverse regardless of whether the brakes were applied or not. The adjuster cable is broke, and the spring has fallen down into the lip. Anybody have suggestions on parts to lube while I’ve got everything apart?

Edited July 8, 2022 by Andyba20

[Mopar1973Man]

When you get the new hardware kit for the drums.better do both sides. Now that cable is a fixed length as the shoes expand out too far it will cause the adjuster arm to rotate the star wheel upward as your looking at it.

[wil440]

39 minutes ago, Andyba20 said:

Anybody have suggestions on parts to lube while I’ve got everything apart?

Pull the adjuster wheel out, clean the threads and the bit at the other end, then lube both ends with a little copperslip 

 

Lube nothing else

[Mopar1973Man]

Make sure that adjuster is installed correctly if you reverse it it will unscrew completely. Don't ask me how I know. 

[Andyba20]

So @Mopar1973Manyou think I need an entire new kit for both sides? I can’t just replace the adjuster cable?

[wil440]

9 minutes ago, Andyba20 said:

So @Mopar1973Manyou think I need an entire new kit for both sides? I can’t just replace the adjuster cable?

Just replace whatever is available that contains the cable but do both sides

[Tractorman]

My recommendation will be based on your answers to some questions regarding the rear brake history of your truck.  

 

Do you know if the park brake cable has ever been adjusted (the cable adjuster on the driver side frame rail).  If it  has been adjusted, was it done correctly?  Have you replaced the rear brakes recently?  If so, did you do the work or did a shop do the work?  How many miles and years on the current rear brake parts?

 

- John

 

 

[Andyba20]

The parking brake cable has never been adjusted by me, and I can’t say if it ever was for the first 150K of it’s life. The shoes were replaced 5 years/35K miles ago. When the shoes were replaced I had the shop swap in GM 1 ton brake cylinders. With that said, the more I’ve learned about these trucks over the years, the more I realize pretty much nowhere I have ever taken my truck has done anything correctly (or to the M1973M forum crowd standards). So I’ve gone back and redone a lot, or printed out instructions from this site and made them do it by instructions (don’t care if they like it or not). 

[Tractorman]

With the information that you have provided, I recommend to take the other side apart for inspection.  This way you can replace what you need, but most importantly, you can adjust the service brake and parking brake properly.  You can verify that all of the parts are assembled correctly, as well.

 

One important part of drum service brake adjustment is specifically observing that both primary and secondary brake shoes are seated against the anchor pin on each side of the vehicle before adjustment. 

 

Here is what can happen.  A mechanic installs the primary and secondary shoes and hardware on the left side.  He ensures that the shoes are seated against the anchor pin and installs the brake drum.  He goes to the right side and installs the brake shoes and hardware.  He notices that both shoes have not come up against the anchor pin, so he pushes them against the anchor pin.  He believes all is well..., but maybe not.  What can happen (and many times does) is that when he pushes the brake shoes against the anchor pin on the right side, the energy from that action transfers through the equalizer in the park brake circuit to the park brake actuator on the left side.  Consequently, the primary (forward) shoe is pushed away from the anchor pin on the left side.   This will result in improper service brake adjustment and improper park brake adjustment.

 

The usual cause of the above-mentioned issue is someone (during the life of owning the truck) adjusts the park brake cable (along the driver side frame) when the service brakes should been adjusted instead - or at least, first.

 

At the very least, I recommend that you loosen the park bark adjusting cable considerably before adjusting your service brakes.  Then, after service brake adjustment, follow up with the park brake adjustment ensuring there is a bit of slack on each rear wheel cable at the equalizer.  This will allow for full brake shoe contact to the anchor pin at each foundation brake.

 

- John

[Mopar1973Man]

Remember the adjustment on the cable is not used ot take up slack oin the shoes the starwheel should be used for that. The cable adjustment is to take the cable slack out that's all if you adjust the cable and you see the cables pull at all then you over adjusted and will have shortened pull and possibly dragging the rear brakes unnecessarily. 

[Andyba20]

I’ll know for sure here in a few, but looking at the side I have off now it looks like the shop that did the last shoe change used the same size shoe (primary/primary or secondary/secondary). Aren’t they supposed to be different lengths? Or are they supposed to be different thickness? The ones on there now look to be the same length. Man what a boring thread, I’d much rather be talking turbos or something. Thanks for y’all’s help on this boring topic. 

[wil440]

7 minutes ago, Andyba20 said:

I’ll know for sure here in a few, but looking at the side I have off now it looks like the shop that did the last shoe change used the same size shoe (primary/primary or secondary/secondary). Aren’t they supposed to be different lengths? Or are they supposed to be different thickness? The ones on there now look to be the same length. Man what a boring thread, I’d much rather be talking turbos or something. Thanks for y’all’s help on this boring topic. 

From what I remember the difference is that the linings are bonded on in a slightly different place on the shoe as in leading edge and trailing edge, IIRC the front shoe has the lining bonded closer to the top so that as the drum is turning it drags the lining into the drum surface 

the shoe has to be the same length or they don't fit in the drum and also the wheel cylinder and the anchor are the same distance apart so shoe is the same length

[SVALIN]

2 hours ago, Andyba20 said:

I’ll know for sure here in a few, but looking at the side I have off now it looks like the shop that did the last shoe change used the same size shoe (primary/primary or secondary/secondary). Aren’t they supposed to be different lengths? Or are they supposed to be different thickness? The ones on there now look to be the same length.

These are what mine are like. Almost time to change again..

 

Front is definitely shorter here..

[Tractorman]

@SVALIN, would it be possible for you to post a photo that would show the bottom of both brake shoes?   That way we could see the difference of the primary and secondary shoe.

 

- John

[SVALIN]

Hi John,

 

I got a shot of each side bot not a single shot of the bottom. Hope it still helps. I did them about a year ago, so thats how the previous set looked too. These were o’reallys shoes, not that great. Looking online it for sure looks like theyre two different sizes front and back..