Clutch burn question

[daav544]

So i have a valair 550hp clutch in my nv4500 and i just did a burn out  1st through 4th cus it was wet out in my dually and i thought it was spinning in 4th but after i smelt a heavy smell of my clutch. This clutch only has like 15k miles max on it. Is this something i should be worried about. I only held it for like 3 or 4 seconds in Fourth befor i let off i just hope i didnt rewin it 

[Great work!]

It's probably OK after it cools off. If it's all ceramic it will be fine, they just bite even better after that.  Ceramic seems to be grabby and not so great for towing.

[Mopar1973Man]

It could be slipping. I've seen several where the friction disc is fine but the flywheel and pressure plate are grooved because the ceramic is harder than pressure plate and flywheel.

[daav544]

So come to find out the clutch in this truck is actually a 400hp or 450hp according to my buddy. So i bought the truck off a good friend who took his friends brand new valair clutch and put it in this truck scince his friends truck isnt guna be on the road any time soon. Ive slipped this clutch in higher gears on a hard pull once or twice before so i knew it wasnt the best for holding power. Im thinking of getting the actual valair 550hp ceramic/ceramic clutch or the 500hp ceramic/ kevlar clutch. The C/C is 650$ and the C/K is 820$ my question is for anyone thats driven the dual ceramics before is on valairs website it says not for towing, well obviously you could tow with the clutch but is the reasoning behind that just the fact that there basically engaged or disengaged so it would be kinda unpleasant so to speak on driveability? Or is there something else to that. For the price i like the idea of something that would hold 550hp opposed to the lesser 500hp thats also 200 bucks more.  I know some people have a cult following for valair and some absolutely despise them. For what my truck is and what i do the clutch in it has been great but id like to be able to really get on it once in a while without having to worry about slip. And with how low 1st gear is on these things im not opposed to the driving mannors of a ceramic/ ceramic since you really would never have to slip 1st anyway. The heaviest thing this truck will see would be about a 11k pound camper that were thinking of buying

[Doubletrouble]

 I recently rebuilt my trans and replaced the clutch, I went with a south bend heavy duty towing clutch. It's organic so you don't get the grabby feel of the ceramic, it's very smooth and holds very well. I believe the rating on mine was around 475hp and 900lbft torque.

 So far I like it, very well mannered when towing and daily driving. I don't do burnouts and such with my truck so I can't speak to that side of it. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Beast (2002) has the Valair performance dual disc organic clutch. Then Thor (2006) has the Valair quiet towing dual disc organic clutch. Both are rated around 500 HP. Great daily driving quality and not super grabby. Beast is pulling so much power heading up a 7% grade I can fry the tires on dry pavement heading up the grade.  Thor I was planning on dropping a MM3 tuner which I figure about 500 to 600 HP. Now with Beast and the Quadzilla I've got a heavy timing curve and produces some serious power but little EGT (750-800°F climbing a grade) or engine oil (172°F) heat. I'm also running a 200°F 6.7L thermostat because I need extra heat for performance.

 

Coolant temp rolls over to -40°F when above 204°F. Interstate travel at 70 MPH.

Edited June 23 by Mopar1973Man

[Doubletrouble]

 I've had ceramic clutches in OTR trucks in the past, personally I don't care for them. I don't like how they are basically all or nothing.  

[Mopar1973Man]

9 hours ago, Doubletrouble said:

 I've had ceramic clutches in OTR trucks in the past, personally I don't care for them. I don't like how they are basically all or nothing.  

Exactly.

[daav544]

So i know both valair and southbend have like a cult following behind them and some people despise one or the other, well i just learned of this company Phoenix friction from a guy on a forum and he said hes been though alot of clutches and nothing has held or been as good as his phoenix. I was checking out their site and they have organics, ceramics, ceramic/kevlar,and feramalloy  clutches. The one im thinking of getting it a feram alloy sever duty clutch good for 600hp 1080ftlbs of torque. Also learned of centerforce clutches and they use some sort of weights that add pressure with centrifugal force. So im guna do some calling around and talk to each of their reps and get a low down on their stuff.I talked with valair and my buddy saying the clutch is either 400hp or 450hp valair said its most likely a 13in. I was happy to find out all their flywheels are dual drilled for either or. I was also thinking of just buying a valair kevlar/ceramic clutch plate since every thing else(flywheel, and pressure plate and hydros) are all new with lik 20k on them. Whats you guys opinion on just throwing in a different clutch plate? Also have you heard of phoenix friction or centerforce and heard any reviews?

[Mopar1973Man]

I've ran both southbend and valair clutches no bias from me. Southbend Con OFE is bit grabby but a great single.

 

Beast creating running a Valair organic dual disc performance. Thor is running the valair dual disc organic but quiet towing. Mostly at the time price was the factor but I wanted to try different products to see which one lasted the longest.

[daav544]

So price is a factor for me right now as well, i dont have the money to fork out for a dual disk even though id love to, i belive i have the 13in organic valair kit for 450hp. My buddy is guna try to find the box this weekend and confirm that. But anyway i wana try to save some money and buy just a clutch plate since this whole clutch has like less than 20k miles. My question is would a different brand clutch disk work with the valair pressure plate and flywheel? I was thinking of either the phoenix friction or just go with valairs kevlar/ceramic

[Tractorman]

The one thing that hasn't been mentioned in this topic is the "break in" procedure for high performance clutches, so I thought I would mention it. 

 

I just installed a South Bend 1947-OK-HD single disc organic clutch (450 hp/900 torque) in my truck.  Required break-in instructed by South Bend is mostly city like driving with lots of starts and stops - empty truck, no full power for 500 miles.  This results in the best holding power quality for the clutch and lasts for the life of the clutch.  Any slipping of the clutch  (after engagement) during break-in will reduce the holding torque of the clutch up to about 200 lb/ft - permanently.

 

So, no matter which high performance clutch is used, the break-in procedure provided by the manufacturer should absolutely be followed. 

 

I just returned from a camping trip with my 19 ft travel travel - gross combined weight around 12,500 lbs.  When I started the trip, I only had about 50 miles of city driving on the new clutch - nowhere near the 500 miles.  I was very concerned about unintentionally slipping the clutch under load.  I thought I had a lot of leeway because my truck only develops just over 600 lb/ft of torque - RV 275hp injectors and a mild Smarty S03 tune.   I was wrong.  It didn't slip climbing up long passes.  It slipped when I pressed the cruise control resume switch at 60 mph with cruise set at 65 mph - definitely caught me by surprise.  The engine raised about 200 rpm for less than 1/2 second.  Hopefully, I haven't done any permanent damage.  The return trip was uneventful, but I was a little more careful.

 

So, whichever clutch you get, be sure to follow the break-in instructions.

 

- John

 

[daav544]

Oh yes i know of the brake in procedure, and drive like a grandma most of the time anyway and do alot of highway driving with alot of stop and go certain times due to traffic, usually can put 500 miles on during the week easily. And my camper is only 4000k pounds so if i do end up towing soon after install ill be sure to be careful. Cruise control doesnt work anyway. It worked before at some point just randomly stopped working i guess ill have to look into that. But anyways if i did the clutch on a weekend and decided to go camping the following weekend more than likely the clutch would have over 500 miles on it. I wana just throw in a better clutch plate, i think the clutch i have. Uses a 3250# pressure plate and the stronger holding dual friction ones use a 3400# pressure plate i wonder if the difference in those pressure plates would make a big difference in holding power or not? I should probably just get the whole clutch since the plate itself is like 440$ and with the pressure plate its a couple hundred dollars more at like 700$

[daav544]

So im about to do my pinion bearing and outer seal. And yes i know the way im doing it is not right but its what i got at the moment. So i have the outer pinion bearing only no race and the seal. My question is will i be able to slip that bearing out without pulling the carrier? Or is it pressed on the shaft? I really dont feel like pulling the carrier again if i dont have to it blows. I only have a little bit of play and my seal is leaking so im hoping to just slap the outer bearing on and a new seal and call it a day.