Two Issues - Help Diagnose

[jamman]

Hello everyone, I haven't been in here much lately, too much stuff. But now I have several things happening with the truck. Problem 1 I backed it up into the barn the other day during a downpour, so had to engage 4wd to not spin on the slope. I forgot to disengage as I moved and slid it out without enough time for it to fully do so. I parked it and left it for a few days. I start it up and bring it out and slide it out of 4x but I notice that my brake warning light never turned off, nor did my ABS dummy light. Now, my brakes were working, but the pedal travels a fair amount before I really find resistance. I'm not certain they are working at 100%. I've had a lot of brake dust on the front passenger side tire, just as extra info. It does seem to pull to the right. Problem 2 Seemingly unrelated, my front tires are really wearing funny. They are a more aggressive tread than pure road tires. I can't seem to find the words to describe the way they are waring, but it's not flat or even, it's different heights all over the tire. I should have taken a picture. There are pointed treads, like triangles pointed at the direction of travel. The points are higher, but further back is worn lower into the tire. Meanwhile, the rear tires are worn evenly across the width of the tire, very differently than the fronts. My thoughts: Problem 1-Seems like maybe my master cylinder may have up and died. So replace the master, do the front brake pads and look at my rotors. Problem 2 – Shocks shot? Replace the shocks. Should I also be doing ball joints at the same time? Never done either, but not afraid to tackle it. Just wondered if while I have it down I should be doing all of it. Seems like I had another thing but it's late and not remembering well. Thanks for any help or thoughts guys. Or, tell me what else I need to tell you to figure this out. jamman

[CSM]

#1. http://articles.mopar1973man.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=29:antilock-braking-system-abs&catid=23&Itemid=107 #2. Could be a lot of things, from a misalignment and trac bar to ball joints and lower control arms. Tires will deform at speed, and some knobby tires will wear odd. Are you doing the rotations every 3000 mi or less? I recently went through lower control arms, ball joints, 2 trac bars, and a bunch of links.

[dripley]

#2worn fornt end parts including shocks. if they are all oe they probably need replacing. maybe not all but if they are oe it would not hert to replace then all if you have the time and the $$$.

[jamman]

Yes, everything is OE, I've done nothing to the front end.No, I'm overdue for a rotation, which is on the todo list for tomorrow's auto work.So, if I have time and money(how much time for these?), upper and lower ball joints on each side, shocks both sides, what else?Oh, I'm in construction. Will be hauling trailers with supplies/forms/skidsteer. What shocks for just dependable workhorse? I'm not going to the dragstrip.Thanks,jamman

[dripley]

i replaced everything on the steering. ball joints, upper and lower, tie rods, tie rod ends, drag link. did not change pitman arm, steering box or control arms. you can buy the parts for near $400 depending on the brand. one tool you will need is a press, they can be had from your auto parts supplier on loan. rockauto.com is a good place to buy the parts. cant recomend a shock i still have my ranchos in the box and cant find the time toput them on.

[dobienut]

Would you happen to be running BfGoodrich radial all terrains?

[Prowelder]

The first problem I've got no ideas but the second sounds like cupping from poor shocks. You probably need to invest in a new set and maybe rotate the tires. My front ones are doing a similar thing and I'm running a heavy mud terrian tire (Fierce Attitude MTs).

[Mopar1973Man]

Tire rotation sohuld be done every oil change... (7-10K miles) As for wear issues most of the guys are right you might look into worn front end parts.

I've had a lot of brake dust on the front passenger side tire, just as extra info. It does seem to pull to the right.

As for the brake pulling its time to rebuild you calipers... Really cheap to get a seal kit and do... I did all 4 calipers (seal kit) and all brand new brake pads for $130 bucks...

[jamman]

Tires are Bridgestone Dueller A/T LT265/75 R16. They were what were on the truck when I got it.I'm no mechanic and haven't done most of this stuff, so I'm a bit slow. Trying to do the research and read the manual, as I can't tear into this and leave myself stranded. When I move forward, I have to get it done. So, off to do more reading on rebuilding calipers(but thought about finding some from a 3500 like I've read others doing) and replacing ball joints, tie rods, tie rod ends, drag links, shocks.I really appreciate the help!

[dripley]

Tires are Bridgestone Dueller A/T LT265/75 R16. They were what were on the truck when I got it. I'm no mechanic and haven't done most of this stuff, so I'm a bit slow. Trying to do the research and read the manual, as I can't tear into this and leave myself stranded. When I move forward, I have to get it done. So, off to do more reading on rebuilding calipers(but thought about finding some from a 3500 like I've read others doing) and replacing ball joints, tie rods, tie rod ends, drag links, shocks. I really appreciate the help!

i did mine about 6 months ago. it was the first time for me. i like you have to have my truck all the time since i have to travel to work. i did mine in 3 trips. i was not that difficult, i just did not have the time to do it on one trip. drove better after every trip. you will need an alignment after you are done.

[jamman]

Wow, color me the idjit!!!!Bought the master cylinder, pads, 3 quarts brake fluid, ordered seal kitsto rebuild calipers, getting shocks. Came home, pullef truck into work area. Go to actually check fluid level as I can "see" the level on outside from the darker color level just below full....IT'S EMPTY!!!I'm such a moron, and quite happy to be alive. I don't know how i've had any brakes. Go ahead and call me any name you like, I pulled a basic, stupid stunt here. I can't believe it. First step is always, "check fluid", not "assume like moron." Wow, hopeeveryone gets a free reminder from my mess up. Front of master is empty, looks like rear almost is, maybe a hint of fluid.So, I have a leak somewhere. Do I just add fluid and bleed and see what happens or did I do damage somewhere else?Sincerely,The Village Idiot

[Mopar1973Man]

Ok... Learning experience... I'm sure you won't do that twice...1. I would remove and clean the reservoir so you can see the fluid inside.2. I would reload and rebleed the system and now start looking for any leaks.

[jamman]

I moved forward in the interim. Let me tell you what I've found.I filled the reservoir and then pumped the brakes. Nothing. Then powered up and did that. I found quite a puddle under the rear axle. Long story short, since I'm working alone I never saw it actually spewing, but what I think it is is a severely rusted line coming from a unit above the driver side rear drum. I would describe the unit as looking like a miniature master cylinder without the reservoir. I think the steel line from it running to a connection that then runs along the frame. It's a short line. So I'm now dead in the water until I can get to a parts store while it's open.Oh, also... There is a rod running up from the axle to a bracket coming off of that mini master cylinder, or at least it should. It wasn't, but I can connect it and disconnect it at will. What is this rod/bracket/cylinder???I have a couple questions. What nut do you crack on the drum when bleeding the line? I see a large nut at the top of the drum, two identical nuts under it to each side of what I think is the bleeder valve. Then under that valve, there is the steel brake line that is wrapped in a thin wire. Then at the bottom of the drum is a rubber line coming out. The two identical nuts were mounting bolts, or so I thought.The second question I have now, there is a rubber hose that I don't know what it's for. It is running from one of the junctions on top of the rear axle up near the frame. It seems to have a plastic plug in the end of it. It isn't tied to anything. I don't know if it should be connected or tie off somewhere.Thanks!

[Mopar1973Man]

Sounds like a weight valve. As more weight is place in the bed of the truck more brake pressure is a applied to the rear axle. It also might be part of RWAL (Rear Wheel Anti Lock) if it got wires hook to it.Steel brake lines enter the bottom of the wheel cylinders just above that should be a bleeder screw.As for the rubber hose that might be routed along the frameand dead end with a plastic cap. That's the differential vent.

[jamman]

The saga continues... I've tried to include some photos for everyone to visualize this better. I got under there and it's obvious that I had a line fail on the top of what I understand to be the height adjusting brake proportioner. I just planned on buying all new and replacing it. But none of the part stores had it and I called Dodge. $530! Bull!!!! No way I'm going to do that. The two salvage yards were no help, especially the one that said that if it were a diesel they didn't have the part. As I know it, they brake are the same on the gas and diesel 2500, but I could be wrong. I went to the part store to get a short brake line to replace the one that goes into a fitting on the frame and curls over into the proportioning valve. I got out the line and the tube nuts and took them to the store. It APPEARS that Dodge decided to use metric for this. One end is 10mm x 1.0 and the other end appears to be 12mm x 1.0 as well. The store had parts to make the 10mm end adapt to the fitting mounting there on the frame, but nothing to run into the valve. My idea was to just bypass this proportioning valve and run on down as I'm running into nothing but headaches and the line running from the valve on looks in terrible shape. I don't think it will be that big of a deal on this setup. The brake line running from the valve down to the junction in/at the axle presents the next hurdle. This runs to a block mounted on the axle. The brake line runs into the side of the block, not with a threaded fitting, but an integral hydraulic fitting as I don't know how to better describe it. Metal wrapped metal brake lines come out of the right and left side of the block, from threaded holes in it, and run to each drum. Out of the top there is a hex fitting, though it looks like it's not actually able to be turned, like it's part of the block or welded to it. On the top of the hex fitting fitting is a nipple that has a hose that looks to be the differential vent. I don't know what I'm going to run into here as all the other stuff seems to have been metric and one thing after another. I think I need to run all new lines from the point on the frame. I think I can cut that piece off and thread on a new nut or connect to some sort of block and then run a flexible hose from there to the axle. But I don't know what to do about that block setting on the axle. I am open to ideas, experience, proposals, anything. I'm going to be searching salvage yards and seeing if I can cannabalize the parts off a 2500 in a junkyard. Thanks for the help so far. I've just made an album for the pictures of the brake parts. Go take a look at it here: http://s1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff477/jammandiesel/99%20Dodge%20brakes/

[jamman]

Here's the update on the brake situation. I started dis-assembly of the brake system. I finally found a Napa store that could custom create the brake hose I needed and had one to go into the brake mounted on the truck rail. That had a 10mm x 1.00 thread flare fitting. (FYI, that stupid fitting that goes in the top of the proportioning valve is a m 12x1.25 and is rarer that frog hair) I then had the end of the hose come down to a more standard 3/8” x 24tpi which is the same as the fittings to the brake drums themselves. But as usual for me, things don't go as planned! I found a Tee fitting and made it work. It needs to be more robust, but it is all I could find right now. I plumbed that in and have finally re-plumbed all the rear brake lines. But in trying to get to the bleeder screws, I finally got one out but the other rounded off and broke. Not a single parts store could help me get correct bleeder screws. Finally found one Napa and they said they had it, but it was not the correct size. The one on there were on the small side. Well, I realized I don't have parts and no good option then I call a friend. I have no real experience with brakes, not more than putting new brake pads on the front calipers of a car. In our discussion, I realize something that hadn't hit me before....the bleeders are in the wheel cylinders. It was so rusty and a mess, it looked all part of the drum. I had new wheel cylinders I purchased a while back to do the 1 ton wheel cylinder upgrade. So, I knocked those out and replaced the cylinders. In the process, I realize that I have cracked brake shoes. Let's say that I NOW have much more knowledge about Dodge rear drums! I tore it all down, replaced the shoes and reassembled it. So, we basically have all new brake lines all the way from the front to the rear drums, a bypassed height valve, new rear brake job and new 1 ton GM wheel cylinders. Also rotated the tires in the process. I have not touched the front end other than shoot some grease in a few joints. I drove it a little on the farm, hit the brakes, threw it in reverse, slammed on brakes, rinse and repeat. Brakes are working great, I don't seem to have any leaks(finally!!!) and.....the brake light and ABS light went off! I thought they would have to be reset somewhere else. I'm tickled pink about that one. That is a very condensed version. This took hours upon hours of finding parts and work, over 16 hours on Tuesday alone. I have been to no less that 6 different parts stores messing with this. Do NOT trust them to look up what should be standard items on these trucks. I knew that, but man did I learn it again. Take the part with you. Thanks for the support. I'll try and tell you more as I use the truck in different situations, but it seems great. Even had the trailer hooked up and is working good. I was going to write this up, but I've been so busy. Doesn't seem like it happens that much, either. I found 1 other thread about it. So, let's hope it stays rare.

[Mopar1973Man]

Wow quite the story there... I' glad it working out for ya... You might dive into front brakes next chance you get...

[jamman]

Hi Mike,I plan on attacking it soon. I have the new caliper brake pads sitting in the cab of the truck, but I've been literally working around the clock. I did most of the actual mechanical work the other day after running after parts all day from about 3 or 4 pm to after 4am then back up and working at 7am and go back to work.I will be studying the ball joint threads and front end threads. I don't know if I need tie rods, shocks, etc, etc, but with as much corrosion and the fact that we are dealing with a 13yr old truck with 140,000 miles on it and run up north how much more wear and tear it had on the front end. I hear a little bumping and such up there and I don't know how to describe it, but it isn't right.Sadly, I still love this truck. I'm ruined to a cummins diesel that I can work on myself. As everyone says, it's about like drugs...addictive. I just hope I can still say that after attacking ball joints.

[Mopar1973Man]

As for the front end and the amount of rust I would deal with any and all part that are rusted and damaged. As for ball joints they are not fun to do... Some have been lucky and others well... http://forum.mopar1973man.com/tags.php?tag=front+axle http://forum.mopar1973man.com/tags.php?tag=ball+joints