Help!-Brake Job Gone Wrong

[flagmanruss]

I have serious rust problems under my truck / suspension parts. I'm going to use POR15... a system used my antique car restorers. I know people who have used this. The POR15 must be top coated to block ultraviolet. It's widely available from automotive sources and even Amazon. The internet is your friend. I've never used the POR myself so I bought a small kit to test on my current trailer project.

[dripley]

Guys, I have no problemwith this nor do i feel pushed out of the thread. It does seem that the 99 has some diofferances from my 02 and I dont want to give any bad info. This can be a tough enough job with good info due to the rust sticking the parts together. I'll throw my in there if I need to. I know how frustrated I was when i first tackled the job. It took me several days. I never knew how hard you could beat on one these things.

--- Update to the previous post...

I have serious rust problems under my truck / suspension parts. I'm going to use POR15... a system used my antique car restorers. I know people who have used this. The POR15 must be top coated to block ultraviolet. It's widely available from automotive sources and even Amazon. The internet is your friend.

I've never used the POR myself so I bought a small kit to test on my current trailer project.

I like to know how that stuff is to work with.Got some rust on my rv that needs to be dealt with. Any luck with the drilling?

[jamman]

Hi hex,I really appreciate the help. I had searched and found those videos late last night. They helped some. But I hope I don't get over agressive and have to redo some of the parts like those two fellows on the two tone truck. They liked what they are doing, but this isn't a hobby for me!I did watch some things about the seal. Interesting. Now it makes me more comfortable reinserting the shaft and seeing what happens.You would think there would be more year specific videos for all these problems with as many of us dealing with these things.Thanks to all

[hex0rz]

Well, keep us posted on your progress! I wanna know how it pans out for you..

^This is a dana 44, but its similar to the dana 60 in this respect. This ought to help when installing, as it is visual instead of my words. I have used POR15 on my mazda lowrider truck when I was younger. It does fade fairly quickly if you do not topcoat it. Although, when you pre-treat the metal and coat it with the POR15, it works great. Stuff coats really well, and a quart can can go a long ways! I totally forgot about the POR15. Its some spendy stuff. You could always go with rubberized undercoating, too. That comes in a spray can, and I can vouch its effective. This would offer the most resistance to the elements, like rocks, etc. As for the diff. in between the years of the truck, I have no clue. You would think that you could separate the rotor from the hub without problem. But, it appears that the studs hold the hub and rotor together? I know when I had my studs put back in by a local shop, they put them in with the hub and rotor together and the rotor did not want to separate from the hub after.

[jamman]

Hello Everyone, time for an update. Here is a picture of the assembly as it was at the end of the day and when I was starting on it this morning. http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff477/jammandiesel/IMAG2734.jpg http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff477/jammandiesel/IMAG2732.jpg http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff477/jammandiesel/IMAG2733.jpg I then took off the axle nut and washer and it pulled apart very easily. When I did, it became obvious this has been gotten into before as this must be copper based anti-seize all over it. Also, those axle nuts were NOT torqued like all the nightmares you hear. http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff477/jammandiesel/IMAG2735.jpg http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff477/jammandiesel/IMAG2736.jpg Here are the new rotor and the old one with the hub in it side by side. http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff477/jammandiesel/IMAG2738.jpg http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff477/jammandiesel/IMAG2739.jpg Then I took a side shot of the old rotor assembly. http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff477/jammandiesel/IMAG2740.jpg I could see no way to pull this thing apart as simply as it was sounding. So I decided to take the new bronze hammer and start knocking out the lug studs past the 4 bolt plate of the back of the hub. I supported it on 2 pieces of 2x4. That has gone quite easily http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff477/jammandiesel/IMAG2742.jpg Once that was done, I could break them apart http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff477/jammandiesel/IMAG2743.jpg http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff477/jammandiesel/IMAG2744.jpg http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff477/jammandiesel/IMAG2745.jpg Ok, back to what I have. Here is the passenger side axle. I took a shot down it. I think I see a little crud on the seal, but no idea how to clean it up for reassembly. I took a paper towel and wiped some of that large stuff out of the end then wadded up some and shoved in there to keep out more crud. http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff477/jammandiesel/IMAG2747.jpg Here is the shaft and head. The U-joints seem to be in fair condition and tight. Still think I should replace them? http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff477/jammandiesel/IMAG2748.jpg http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff477/jammandiesel/IMAG2749.jpg Ok, after all this, I decided to change my approach a little for the driver side. I took some wire and tied the U-Joint to the axle end. I then loosened the 4 bolts that hold the hub(after taking off wheel and caliper) and used the power steering to push on the bolts. I alternated between them to try and push it out more evenly. I also put the shorter extension I have between the bolt head and the back side of the knuckle and not back on a bracket closer to the frame. After it loosened up a good bit, and since I'm putting on new rotors, I then used the bronze hammer to tap on the back of the rotor and finish this up. Here is what I got. http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff477/jammandiesel/IMAG2753.jpg Does anyone know if I can and if I should get new ones of plates/shields? I think the large one is serviceable, but there is a smaller one that is badly corroded and on the passenger side is nearly gone. http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff477/jammandiesel/IMAG2754.jpg I protected the spline end of the shaft to keep my cleaning work of it to a minimum and then proceeded to beat the living daily lights out of the knuckle and such, used the screwdriver and a little bit of a wire brush. I'm going to be using a flap wheel and maybe a powered wire wheel on this stuff later tonight. http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff477/jammandiesel/IMAG2755.jpg http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff477/jammandiesel/IMAG2756.jpg http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff477/jammandiesel/IMAG2757.jpg Now, here is a new wrinkle. I knew the passenger hub wasn't great, but when I got the driver side hub off, I knew I had problems. I'm headed to the part store to see what I can do. The passenger hub doesn't turn as easily as the driver side, the seal is obviously messed up(read: gone) and it's all rusted. Not good. http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff477/jammandiesel/IMAG2758.jpg Now, this is not a super easily just pull it off and go operation. Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems sort of straightforward and sort of convoluted in its hub connection. It seems you've got to take it off that axle stub at minimum just to get a new rotor on. Maybe that's the beauty of it all, it all is connected this way to hold it on the axle and make it trustworthy. I dunno. Anyway, uploading this and going to see about a hub, shield spacer, wire wheel, paint, diff fluid and brake fluid. I can't think what else. Maybe emory paper. If anyone has a suggestion, post and I should get a notification while I'm out. Thanks again!

[hex0rz]

You need to double check the links to your pics... some were working and others were not.Suggestion... ANYTIME you replace something on one side, you always replace it on the other side.I'll give further advice once the pics work...

[ebbtide357]

i just did my rotors and calibers on my 99 pita the rotors are held on with the studs got to band them out to get the rotor off but first you got to separate the whole assembly from the axel I would put it back on with the 4 bolts and soak it up real good than try with heat and a big puller good luck wow I thought I had a lot of rust

[flagmanruss]

Pardon my ignorance. I'm just wondering... while he has it apart... Is there a swap that would put the later type, easier to remove, discs on there.

[jamman]

Ok, I went and did what I could to edit that post to make the images display. Some of the links aren't coming up blue and I have no idea why, I even redid them getting the link location and putting it back in. Some of them you may have to manually cut and paste. I only bought one hub. The 3yr warranty part was $170 at O'reilly's, and the driver side was obviously replaced not all that long ago. I am just going to have to let it slide at the moment, if I have to break into it later, I know how to do it and it won't be so badly stuck.Russ, as far as I know, there isn't much else to do here. The only upgrade I know of is to take a 3rd gen axle and swap things out. I don't have 1) the axle 2) the money 3) the time 4) the know how. If I've missed something and am missing a cheap but better upgrade, someone PLEASE let me know. I think I may watch for a 3rd gen just so I can put a new axle and knuckle and the brackets on and get rid of all these parts that have had so much corrosion in the undercarriage.Interestingly, we noticed at the parts store when I was looking over the old rotors to see if they were worth turning and salvaging, the "good" one was noted to have a big crack in the hood that extended around 2 or so lugs. NOT safe and very glad I found that.Eating dinner then back out to brush and clean then spray a coat of primer on stuff that I can. It won't be as good as it could be, but I'd like to slow the rust down some.I'll keep you posted!

[dripley]

Jamman, the small dust sheilds you are speaking of above, let me know if you can find them seperately. One of mine got destroyed when fixing my second one and the only way i could find on was from the dealer. You had to buy another part with it(cant remember what it was now)and it was quite pricey. so I am running without one and dont like that. It kind of leaves the insideof that bearing exposed. So if you find a source let me know.Sounds like you are progressing quite well. That hub and rotor assembly is quite differant than my 02. No pounding out studs, the rotor just slips off. The rest was not that easy. Good luck

[hex0rz]

Yeah, thats copper anti-seize. I use the same stuff, but I don't think copper is required. You could use regular anti-seize and be fine, I'm sure. Its just what the store I was at had at the time.Its been about 6 months since I have done my front-end work like you ae doing. But now that I seen your picture, the reason why you cant remove the rotor from the hub, is cause its sammiched between the studs and hub.If you can't be 100% certain that the seals are clean, there is not much else you can do except opening up the CAD and diff. to see the seals. Your just gonna have to gamble here when you put the shafts back in...I would not replace your u-joints unless you have been getting any binding, clunking while driving or putting into gear. If the joint does not have side to side play, then they are fine.As far as the shield/shim, I cannot say. I do not think it would be critical to have the shim, but like I said, I dunno. It may be there for taking up play when tightening everything down, or its just whats needed to have the bare minimum for clearance with the spindle and brake shield. Its OEM, so I would think its important.MAN! You got a lot of rust!Flagmanruss, I have not heard of any upgrades or mods, that can be done for these trucks to make it easier. Then again, I'm not worried about it. Just a little extra manual labor...Other then that jamman, your on your way to finishing this project! Your doing just fine, and I'm confident it will go together... Remember to heed my forewarnings about things. Also, make sure to put axle grease on the splines of the axle shaft and axle grease on the splines that go into the hub.

[jamman]

I'm in for the night. Here is what little more I got done:

I went and beat on the metal some more to knock stuff loose. Then I took the flapper wheel(great idea) and went after things. I used a brass wire wheel on the inner area of the hub hole. And you'll notice that in fooling with things I went ahead and pulled the axle shaft out.

After all of that I went ahead and hit areas with the primer. I will then hit that with the rust stopper paint. Then I'll hit the bearing surfaces with the flapper and brass wheel again prior to reloading this thing.

I had to pick up other supplies and a new 1/2" drive socket as the chinese cheapie that I bought some years ago just was slipping time after time after time. I dropped $400 at the parts store(including expensive ball joint press if I had to replace the joints) and another almost $100 between Wally world for fluids/paint/towels and Lowe's for sandpaper/wheel/emery cloth/ratchet. I'm wondering what this would have cost to have someone do? Anyone hired it out? The other day the quote was at least $300-$400 per side due to all the labor. I know they wouldn't have done all this for that price.

Thanks guys

[Perrysburg Dodgeboy]

Wow what is up with the guys in both of those videos? Just a heads up on removing a caliper (any caliper). use a large heavy flat blade screw driver, placed between the pad and the rotor and push the caliper piston back about 1/8" and the caliper will pull right off WITHOUT BEATING ON IT WITH A HAMMER!!! again :clap:Don

[Mopar1973Man]

Another secret to get the bearings out of the knuckle is easy using the steering to push the bearing out. Beware it can break sockets if done wrong but it will push out the bearing really easy.Place the socket on the bolt and using proper amount of extensions wedge it between different spots on the axle. Have a buddy turn the steering wheel for ya. Engine doesn't have ot be running either.

[flagmanruss]

Sometimes if a link does not display in blue... try adding a space after the address.

[jamman]

I had limited time to work on this today. Here is the picture of my stopping point as of last night and starting point today.

First, shoot some paint on the primed knuckles and other parts.

I then attacked the axle shafts. After looking them over, I decided not to replace the joints in them. I've got to get done and they looked pretty good and felt tight. They aren't brand new, but good enough for now. I took the brass wheel to them and got them cleaned up pretty good.

Then I shot them with the black rust paint. Use your imagination. ;)

I decided to reassemble everything and put it in as an assembly, the hub/rotor/axle shaft. First order of business, reattach the hub to the rotors. I started to, but was using the brass pin and realized I was getting no where fast. Not having done this and not wanting to ruin parts and have to go spend several hundred over again, I elected to go to a local shop and have him drive in the studs. Won't do that again! He pulled out his kit, with spacers and such, then took his impact with a chisel point(as none of his bits were long enough) and drove them in like that. If I do it again, an old hub or rotor will be my spacer off the floor. Then I can use the electric rotary hammer with a dull bit or an impact and drive them home. Hey, $30 lesson and no ruined parts.

Here they are, hub and rotor together.

Interestingly, the hub that was left that I'm using had a rubber seal on it.

The new hub doesn't.

Oh, I forgot to mention that I brass wire wheeled all the pertinent parts of the old hub, all the contacting bearing surfaces and anything that would try and seize up. Here is the before and after of some of that.

Let me break this into another post.

--- Update to the previous post...

So most everything is clean and ready. But I don't like the junk in the driver side axle shaft. It was extra dirty. There was dirt/grime around the seal area. Don't know if you can see it.

I want some of that out so I don't catch it on the axle grease on the shaft end. How? Here's my solution.

I keep redoing those and wipe out the shaft and I took a clean one and used my light and gently went in and cleaned right at the mouth of the seal, but not putting it way up in there. It looked a little better.

So, put the assemblies together. Driverside first. Prep the parts:

Lock them together with the castle axle nut and here is the assembly lubed up and ready to go!

Prep the knuckle area.

Finished product.

Now, who was paying attention and realized what I did wrong? I just realized it a little while ago.

Dust shields. Do I need to take this apart and put in that shield and the spacer? I don't want to, but if I need to, I will. I have not torqued anything up yet, just tightened.

Now, when I was working on the passenger side and got it done I saw this:

I'm not exactly certain what part of the front end assemblage this is, but the broken rubber makes me wonder if I need to knock that apart and fix it. Thoughts?

Either tonight or tomorrow if I don't have to take it apart and put on the shields, I will torque the nuts, then put on the calipers, bleed the brakes, top the diff fluid, can't forget to put on the tires, and then test her out. Got to look up the torque specs for those 4 bolts that hold the hub. I know the axle nut is 175#. Caliper bolts are what torque? And where am I supposed to put loctite and which one? I've got the anti-seize for the caliper assembly and need to make sure I put it on all necessary surfaces.

What am I missing guys?

[hex0rz]

I hope you were not using rustoleum. IIRC rustoleum does not need primer...When I cleaned out the axle tubes, I did it when I was doing the seals. So I did not need to worry about cleaning them as I could get it from the opposing side. I've thought about any ways to drill into the axle tube and thread an air line fitting on. Then chuck the airhose to the fitting and let her rip and blow all the debris out of the tube.I still to this day do not understand why dana did not make outer seals...Looking at your axle shaft, I can see exactly where the seal runs. The rubber has allowed dirt to work a groove right in front of it. Keep mindful of that. If your seals go out after doing this repair, your gonna wanna smooth that area back up.As for the rubber on your suspension components, I can't say. If the rubber looks dry and cracked and there is play, it would probably be a good idea to replace. Usually, when I take my truck into the auto shop for alignment, they will inspect my components and let me know if its something needing replaced as it will affect the alignment.Your dust shield and shim is not a problem. You don't need to take the assembly apart to put them on. Just take the axle back out and slide the shield and shim down the shaft. Be mindful how the shield goes on, as you can get it backwards. You will find out real quick when putting back together... The shim goes between the shield and hub, BTW.Put loctite on the threads of the caliper bolt, or on the threads where the calipers thread to on the spindle. I usually go with blue loctite for bolts.TORQUE SPECS:Lug Nuts: 8-stud wheel: 135ft. lbs.Hub Bearing Bolts: 125ft. lbs.Hub axle Nut: 175ft. lbs.Brake Caliper Mounting Bolts: 38ft. lbs.

[jamman]

On the Rustoleum. I used the WalMart brand. But the instructions on it said that if the corrosion was severe, use primer. I used one can of primer, so no great loss. Actually, priming it helped me see some loose areas. I probably wasted my time, but I feel a little better.I was disturbed by the ring on the shaft. I tried using brake cleaner on one and it didn't come off readily nor scratch off with basic fingernail action. I decided to leave it until someone chimed in. I suppose I can still pull them out and clean them up. I thought about using some emery cloth on them, but again wasn't certain. I also was getting in a hurry with the clock ticking on me.I think I will leave off the shields until I have to break into this stuff again. I'm going to plan on washing out this area a little more often after seeing how it is put together. I've wondered about pointing the house at those axles to gently flood them once in a while after it is all together to try and get the particulate out.You wouldn't think it would take that much more money to actually coat these parts, grease them like they ought to and design it correctly. I really like the powerplant. The truck leaves a lot to be desired due to corporate greed keeping things from being put together like they ought to be. But I'm going to work with it and run the legs off this beast.Thanks for the help. Think I'll just tackle it again in daylight. I know I'm going nuts on the photos, but thought if there are any other newbies behind me it might help them out to not make the same mistakes and to weigh their options.Oh, btw, I was at Lowe's this evening picking up 1/4" Vinyl tubing for bleeding the brakes and blue loctite. It was blue or red, and I remembered red is more permanent.

[dripley]

Jamman, that is on heck of a job you have tackled there. Much more involved on the assembly side that mine. You have gotten alot of good advice and taken it beyond in most cases. You really ought get those dust sheilds on. Did you ever try to find the small inner ones? I am running one shy and never could find one seperately. Anyway you are looking pretty darn good so far.

[jamman]

Thanks so much for the kind words, dripley. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the help of good guys like you and the others when you get in this sort of situation.Now there you go ruining my plan for getting done quickly!!!! ;) Ok, you're probably right. That means I pull the assemblies back out and see what I get. HEY! If I were to go and stick the hose up in that shaft while it was all put together, do you think it would SAFELY wash out those shaft tubes??? If I pull the assembly, how should I clean/polish/smooth that axle area where the seals have marked it up??I could not find the spacers. I also didn't try real hard. The parts store told me that would be a part you have to get from the OEM. I know what that means! Cha-CHING! So I'll have to use the pieces, er, spacers that I do have.I am seriously considering searching the junkyards for a front axle and the other attachments to replace mine as I've had soooo much corrosion. I know that if I max this thing out(and I work construction for myself) that I will likely break something at some point.Any and all suggestions or insights on any of this is still appreciated.