47 re not shifting out of 1st as well as hard cranking after vp44 replacement

[hawk-eye]

after a long and arduous battle, my vp44 has been replaced and seems to be running like a top....good fuel pressure and such....but after letting it sit for about a month, I now have to crank it pretty hard to get it to start, almost feels like it has air in the lines however I have torqued, checked and re-re-double-quadruple-checked all the lines and they are all holding fuel....?? my second question, just after I replaced my vp the first time with a used pump, that failed shortly there after, my 47re started having issues shifting out of first!! I thought it may have been a clog in the valve body, it sat for a while, but a good ****** of the valve body with brake clean and a filter and fluid replacement gave no change, I tried the speed sensor at the rear of the trany, also no luck when replacing that! it will shift fine through all gears once its out of first, but to get it out of first it needs to be at about 22-25 mph so I need a down hill run or I have to rev it to about 2700 rpm to get it to speed, then drop it to neutral and then back into gear, it will NOT shift out of first any other way.....?? please help, I am at a total loss with the trany and am pretty puzzled with the hard starts as well....I was thinking maybe apps?? it konked out today before I replaced the speed sensor when I dropped it into reverse and surged when I would shift into drive with a huge drop in rpms before returning to a normal idle but now seems to do fine, just the normal change in engine load when its put into gear.....thanks guys!!!!its a 2001 2500 about 160k miles all stock minus raptor lift pump

[JLandry]

Regarding the long cranking time:What's the fuel pressure at the VP44 inlet?Regarding the shifting problem:Have you adjusted the bands, especially the front band, per the factory service manual?Regards,John L.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[H.R.D]

Regarding the long cranking time: What's the fuel pressure at the VP44 inlet? Regarding the shifting problem: Have you adjusted the bands, especially the front band, per the factory service manual? Regards, John L. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Is out of adjustment bands usual what cause a auto to not shift out of 1st to 2nd? I have a buddy who's pickup does that, he has to stomp on the accelerator and then it pops (can't hear it just feel it) then it takes off and shifts normal. Any thoughts? I no little to nothing about autos. His is a 99 with 200,xxx . Rebuilt tranny with in 10k miles and has an upgraded TC (unknown brand). He just bought it after this was all done. Thank, Jerrod

[dripley]

Have you checked your return fuel lines for leaks, especially the one on the back of the head? Mine was leaking and causing hard starts. Mostly when I was facing uphill.

[JLandry]

Is out of adjustment bands usual what cause a auto to not shift out of 1st to 2nd?

Many times... yes. However, the same symptoms can also be caused when the front band strut or the power wedge breaks or falls out. Either of these parts can be easily replaced with the transmission in place. Worst case the front band could be completely broken. That requires removing and disassembling the transmission. If he can't properly adjust the front band... if he can't torque the adjusting screw to the spec in the factory service manual... then that's the indication there's a problem with the front band parts. Often when the strut or power wedge break, pieces will be found in the pan. Best regards, John L. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[pepsi71ocean]

i had the same problem, and you need to test with a pressure gauge, between the mainline and the governor port. they should be withing 5 psi of each other in drive and idle.Also the rear Speed sensor should have been replaced, 9/10 times it goes bad because it had been demagnetization.I had the same problem with the truck not leaving first gear.As for the hard starting, did you try to start it right back up after it had been running? if it hard starts right after you got it runnign then it is a VP-44 problem, if you let it sit for a few hours and then it hard starts then it is a fuel related problem.If it hard starts when hot but not cold then pull your fuel pumps relay to see if it is a computer/pressure problem, if it starts up fine after that, but not when the fuel pump relay is started then you know you have a worn Vp-44.

[hawk-eye]

hi guys!! thanks for all the replies, I have been working a lot lately and havent been on the computer too much....vp pressure is at about 17psi before ignition and about 14 at idle, it has started fine a few times, hot or cold, but I found if I open the valve at the fuel filter and cycle the lift pump to push any air out of the line it starts no problem every time, its a new pump from blue chip so please dont tell me its a worn out vp problem!!!!!! that would ruin my next few weeks! I'll have to check the return lines though, thats a good idea!! and as for the tranny, I did see some debris when I dropped the pan....at first I thought it may have been the gripping surface off a clutch pack but this could be the band strut or power wedge....I'll check into that also....I dont have a copy of the FSM anymore, does anyone have a link to the band adjustment? its been a while since I tinkered with them....thanks a ton everyone!!!!

[pepsi71ocean]

hi guys!! thanks for all the replies, I have been working a lot lately and havent been on the computer too much....vp pressure is at about 17psi before ignition and about 14 at idle, it has started fine a few times, hot or cold, but I found if I open the valve at the fuel filter and cycle the lift pump to push any air out of the line it starts no problem every time, its a new pump from blue chip so please dont tell me its a worn out vp problem!!!!!! that would ruin my next few weeks! I'll have to check the return lines though, thats a good idea!! and as for the tranny, I did see some debris when I dropped the pan....at first I thought it may have been the gripping surface off a clutch pack but this could be the band strut or power wedge....I'll check into that also....I dont have a copy of the FSM anymore, does anyone have a link to the band adjustment? its been a while since I tinkered with them....thanks a ton everyone!!!!

Sounds like your fuel filter is leaking. Time for an aftermarket fass or airdog system. Besides, 14 at idle is a tad bit too low for my taste.

[hawk-eye]

well, the air leak seems to have been caused by a bad o-ring....i pulled everything apart and checked out the fuel filter housing, i pulled the drain valve assembly off the side of the filter housing and saw that the pair of gaskets were worn. everything is back together and she seems to fire up just fine now:thumbup2:

[hawk-eye]

i did a band adjustment on the trans this mornin.....its still having a hard time shifting out of first but has shifted a few times, and its also trying to hang up coming out of second now....?? i dont want to get the bands too tight and have em burn up, but should i put a little more tension on em? and would the front or rear band cause this? thanks!!

[pepsi71ocean]

i did a band adjustment on the trans this mornin.....its still having a hard time shifting out of first but has shifted a few times, and its also trying to hang up coming out of second now....?? i dont want to get the bands too tight and have em burn up, but should i put a little more tension on em? and would the front or rear band cause this? thanks!!

try my write up first. http://articles.mopar1973man.com/general-cummins/39-transmission-systems/257-automatic-transmission-diagnostic-chart But i know that delayed upshifts are causes by two things, 1. bad VSS, or a valve body malfunction/clog. I would first check your pressures, you should see no more then a 5 psi difference between your govenor and main line port. And even then, odds are if this was fine and now doing this im going to say replace your output sensor, its most likely failing. tightenign the bands will do nothing, tighten them to spec and leave them alone.

[hawk-eye]

I went out the other day to start running diagnostics on my 47re but didnt get that far....my air leak issue is back!! truck started fine for a few days, now, im back to bleeding the lines every time I want to start it! I'm at a total loss, every, and I do mean EVERY connection has been checked, all the banjo bolt washers have been replaced, now with the last tear down of the system all the o-rings have been replaced including the ones between the drain valve and filter housing....the only thing I can come up with now is my raptor FFRP is somehow sucking air into the system....if I kill the truck, I can pop the drain valve on the filter housing or depress the test port on the fuel inlet line to the vp and I have fuel instantly, if I let the pump cycle first, I get an air pocket.....has anyone heard anything like this? I LOVE the pressure the FFRP gets me and the ability to adjust the pressure from the LP but c'mon, this is getting old!! anybody know something I dont? thanks guys! :banghead:

[gassernomore]

Are you using any thread sealant on the Lp fittings?

[hawk-eye]

Are you using any thread sealant on the Lp fittings?

yup, a fuel rated teflon tape, the same stuff we use to hook up our kerosene and heating oil tanks....wish it were somethin like that dang it!!

thanks, good call though!

--- Update to the previous post...

also, how the heck is air getting into the system and diesel NOT leaking out.... I'm no nuclear physicist, but that doesnt seem to be plausible....I've almost convinced myself there is something else going on here, but there is, without a doubt air in the lines.....AAAAHHHHHH!!! :banghead:

[gassernomore]

--- Update to the previous post...

also, how the heck is air getting into the system and diesel NOT leaking out.... I'm no nuclear physicist, but that doesnt seem to be plausible....I've almost convinced myself there is something else going on here, but there is, without a doubt air in the lines.....AAAAHHHHHH!!! :banghead:

Neither am I! On a gas system the fuel will leak out of a hose, but, on a diesel system it will not leak out but will let air in. Mopar man explains it but I can't remember what he says! I would try pressurizing the fuel tank with air and look for wet spots from the tank to the VP and see if you can find the leak that way.

[pepsi71ocean]

my advice is to use baby powder and sprinkle it onto the tubes, if it turns green you have a leak there.

[hawk-eye]

update: talked with one of the guys from Airdog over at Cumminsforum.....well, I sent him a PM, I got one back from both the rep I talked to and another guy at Airdog, gave 'em a call the next day and left a message, haven't heard a word back....not horribly satisfied with customer service at this point, but they do make good products....mostly! from what little info I got from them and much digging on my own, the first raptor FRRP pumps were back-bleeding and sucking air into the fuel lines (teach me to trust a brand name and not look into a product! shoulda known better...) they came up with some little ball thingamabober that fixes this issue..... but I don't have one yet.....soooo, if/when I hear back from the rep and get one coming, I'll letcha guys know how it goes....other than that, the FRRP is awesome!! adjustable PSI, it came from the factory with 25PSI, I backed it down to 20, I lose about 3-4# at WOT...now if i can just keep it from back-bleeding air into my lines, I'll be happy as a clam!!!

[JAG1]

Just a couple things.... Have you checked for an air leak on top of the tank?Tank vent clogged sucking fuel back?Injectors tight?Hope you find it.

[hawk-eye]

Just a couple things.... Have you checked for an air leak on top of the tank? Tank vent clogged sucking fuel back? Injectors tight? Hope you find it.

I'm thinking its the FRRP lift pump back-bleeding, I'll know more when the Airdog guys get back to me, as for the lines on top of the tank, they are good....didnt check the vent tho, good call! and the injection lines are definitely tight!

[JAG1]

Let us know what AirDog says.... a month ago I installed the AirDog and today for the very first time, (truck is used only weekends) got a short fuel drainback to the tank. Shouldn't happen. I know everything was tight from before.