Diesel and an HHO system

[hex0rz]

I have looked this subject of the HHO system over back a few years ago when it started getting more publicity. At the time, I was still in the gasser world and never gave it thought to a diesel. Now that I'm a convert and drive a diesel, I wonder what benefits there may be using this system with a diesel?I can think of a few things that need to be addressed at the beginning:- Hydrogen embrittlement- Low ignition point of hydrogenNow, as far as pre-detonation goes, this may be addressed by my VP44 and the CR's, but I don't think this is an entirely viable thing with the p7100's.Has anyone ever heard of using HHO on a diesel, or let alone run one?

[Mopar1973Man]

The problem... You going to use a high amount of amperage to create enough HHO to make it worth while but in the same token your adding more load on the engine creating said fuel so are you gaining anything? http://www.hhokitsdirect.com/big_hydrogen_generator.php

http-~~-//youtu.be/82OOCmIW3MY

[dieseljunky]

I have heard that they run an HHO device on semi trucks in canada. If I remember right some started doing this about 5 or 6 years ago, Maybe some one up there could tell you how it worked out. Sounds like a bad idea to me though.

[ISX]

I actually used to make the stainless steel HHO generators for a company when this was relatively new. You would cut a 20ft pipe into 6" lengths and I had to face them all off in the lathe until they were perfectly 6". Eventually they were bringing in several pipes a week so we pawned the job off. They claimed a couple mpg difference but that's from them so who knows. I haven't seen enough input from people to say it works or doesn't work. You can make it yourself very cheaply.

[hex0rz]

See, I'm at a bit of a loss on the standard to measure its efficiency. People are using diff. methods to prove theirs works.I understand that the setup is parasitic and puts a load on by drawing so much amperage. But the thing about it is that people report gains in MPG, not losses. So there has to be something going on here.From what I have been able to conclude through reading is that the hydrogen in combo with the fuel allows for a complete, hot burn. Therefore reducing fuel consumption... ..its a supplement, or an additive, if you will.

[Mopar1973Man]

So looking at the video at 45 Amps draw he's creating 6-8 liters. Now consider how much of that fuel energy has to go back to power the load of the alternator? Also consider how much air the truck is inhaling at 55-65 MPH? (5-8 PSI of boost)This is a simple fact of science you cannot get energy from nothing. So 99% of the time the alternator load is going to out weigh the production HHO gas and what it supplies back. I tired to find a old thread about this... But what it came down to is the load place on the engine was always greater than the energy produced by the HHO gas.

[hex0rz]

So looking at the video at 45 Amps draw he's creating 6-8 liters. Now consider how much of that fuel energy has to go back to power the load of the alternator? Also consider how much air the truck is inhaling at 55-65 MPH? (5-8 PSI of boost) This is a simple fact of science you cannot get energy from nothing. So 99% of the time the alternator load is going to out weigh the production HHO gas and what it supplies back. I tired to find a old thread about this... But what it came down to is the load place on the engine was always greater than the energy produced by the HHO gas.

Its astounding to know how much air is being sucked in to the engine.. These people are not even meeting the demands to properly feed an engine with this HHO. Still, what I don't understand, is why these vehicles see an INCREASE in mileage, despite the load they put on the vehicle? If something creates a load, then that means the mileage should decrease... Also, people have started dabbling into pulse width modulation and electrolytes as well. This has increased HHO production, but still does not define over-unity...

[ISX]

I think there is something missing in all of those. The alternator is efficient at producing power. The engine is not. Adding HHO makes it more efficient. There is a difference between getting power from nothing and getting more power from the source of energy. Right now we have 60% of energy from the fuel just being thrown out the window. I believe something that makes it more efficient can have a positive outcome on mileage, even with a power loss from making the HHO. The gain from it is more than the power loss.. BTW, 45 amps x 12 volts is only 540 watts, that equates to 1842 BTU out of the 135,000 in diesel. So considering a 40% efficient vehicle, that means only 54,000 BTU is turned into usable energy. If you make it just 1% more efficient, it now turns 55,350 BTU into usable energy, or 1350 more. Obviously that's a net loss of 492 BTU in the system, however, hydrogen is also a fuel. So not only is it a catalyst to helping the diesel burn better, it is also an energy source, so MPG will go up. Of course this assumes there is enough hydrogen to do anything. I'd like to see how much propane stodg uses to get a couple mpg gain.

[War Eagle]

Subscribed.

[hex0rz]

I think there is something missing in all of those. The alternator is efficient at producing power. The engine is not. Adding HHO makes it more efficient. There is a difference between getting power from nothing and getting more power from the source of energy. Right now we have 60% of energy from the fuel just being thrown out the window. I believe something that makes it more efficient can have a positive outcome on mileage, even with a power loss from making the HHO. The gain from it is more than the power loss.. BTW, 45 amps x 12 volts is only 540 watts, that equates to 1842 BTU out of the 135,000 in diesel. So considering a 40% efficient vehicle, that means only 54,000 BTU is turned into usable energy. If you make it just 1% more efficient, it now turns 55,350 BTU into usable energy, or 1350 more. Obviously that's a net loss of 492 BTU in the system, however, hydrogen is also a fuel. So not only is it a catalyst to helping the diesel burn better, it is also an energy source, so MPG will go up. Of course this assumes there is enough hydrogen to do anything. I'd like to see how much propane stodg uses to get a couple mpg gain.

ISX, when you type your explanation, you sound so much smarter than when I have to literally listen to you. Do you use dip or something? On the other hand, I tend to agree with what you said. Catalyst was the word I was looking for. I feel that when you get HHO introduced to the fuel, helping the combustion be complete and getting as much work out of the process as possible. As for how much people are able to produce on demand:

[ISX]

ISX, when you type your explanation, you sound so much smarter than when I have to literally listen to you. Do you use dip or something? On the other hand, I tend to agree with what you said. Catalyst was the word I was looking for. I feel that when you get HHO introduced to the fuel, helping the combustion be complete and getting as much work out of the process as possible. As for how much people are able to produce on demand:

I don't really talk much in this world but I think a lot and on here I can gather my thoughts and write how I think. I never know what's gonna come out of my mouth Let me PM stodg73 and find out how much propane he uses to get a 5mpg increase. That will give us a rough estimate and I can account for hydrogen having 61000BTU and propane having 91600BTU. I just want to see if you need a LOT of gas or if the small amount they produce would actually benefit.

[stodg73]

I get about 3:1 diesel to propane, or about 90 gallons of diesel to 12 gallons of propane. Remember that propane increases in it gaseous state for 1 gallon to about 270 gallons. So, I use about 810 gallons of gaseous propane to 30 gallons of diesel, or 27 gallons of gaseous propane to 1 gallon of diesel.

[ISX]

I get about 3:1 diesel to propane, or about 90 gallons of diesel to 12 gallons of propane. Remember that propane increases in it gaseous state for 1 gallon to about 270 gallons. So, I use about 810 gallons of gaseous propane to 30 gallons of diesel, of 27 gallons of gaseous propane to 1 gallon of diesel.

And what MPG gain do you get at that rate?

[stodg73]

Depending on speed, anywhere from 3-5 MPG.

[hex0rz]

Depending on speed, anywhere from 3-5 MPG.

Is this a cost effective thing to do? When did or does your propane system pay itself off for the increase in mpg's? ISX, start crunching those numbers, baby!

[stodg73]

The system pays for itself after 10k miles. The diesel must be over $3.50 per gallon and propane must be below $2.30 per gallon. Mine has been paid for and now I am reaping the benefits.

[Mopar1973Man]

The system pays for itself after 10k miles. The diesel must be over $3.50 per gallon and propane must be below $2.30 per gallon. Mine has been paid for and now I am reaping the benefits.

Hmmm... Diesel here is $4.609 right now... Gasoline is 3.859... Then Propane is $3.50 rouglhy a gallon...

[hex0rz]

Hmmm... Diesel here is $4.609 right now... Gasoline is 3.859... Then Propane is $3.50 rouglhy a gallon...

OUCH!!!!!