Vp whipping a dead horse.

[Te300]

Hi. New here and I'm glad to find you guys. So I recently picked up a 2002 2500 five nine 4x. 112000 miles. Of course it won't start when hot unless I leave key on till pump stops and then bleed the water filter. I have a Tass one fifty that I'm putting in on tues. there is no fuel pressure gauge but I will be putting one on tues. as well. I guess what I'm asking is my vp going to be shot. Or can we not tell without a gauge. I've never owned a diesel and mine seems pretty week feels like some pretty dead pedal. No smoke on cold start.

[dripley]

If the VP has had a steady diet of low fuel pressure it has most likely seen extra wear. How much is more a guess than anything. You could check the codes and see whats there. The fuel pressure gauge will just keep an eye on the pressure going to the VP. You use to be sure you are putting good pressure to it. You should get the Fass system on and the fuel gauge in. Ideally you want around 18 to 20 psi at idle and 15 to 16 at wide open throttle(on the highway and not just revving it in the driveway).

You can use the key trick and check the codes. Key on, key off, key on, key off, key on. Leave it on and wathc the odometer. It will display any codes stored. Watch it closely because it has to go thru 2 computers. It will say p done after each one. you need to see pdone twice.

Get that part done and take it for a drive and see how she acts then.

--- Update to the previous post...

A bone stock 02 is no fast machine of the line. but it is capable of pulling quite a load.

[Te300]

Ok checked codes haven't put fass in yet p-pcu P-1693p-ecu. P-0230 0216what do you think.

[gassernomore]

http://articles.mopar1973man.com/2nd-generation-24v-dodge-cummins/59-obdii-error-codes/161-p0216-fuel-injection-pump-timing-failure http://articles.mopar1973man.com/2nd-generation-24v-dodge-cummins/59-obdii-error-codes/172-p0230-transfer-pump-circuit-out-of-range Not good news. You will need a VP along with the fuel pump that you are putting in. Check with the vendors on the site. They have some great products to help you get the truck back in top shape!

[Mopar1973Man]

The guys are right the lift pump and the VP44 both took on damage. So you end up replacing both plus it seem you need to install a fuel pressure gauge as well...Welcome to the family sorry to start off on the wrong foot...

[Te300]

I was so happy to get my first diesel oh well. I was thinking I would buy bumpers and stereos and chips and stuff. I knew I was going to dump money into it but not into fuel system. So you guys think I should get the stock vp or get something else. I don't intend to hot rod around I am just looking for the best fuel economy. Can anyone point me in the direction of a less expensive rebuilt one or a kit to rebuild one if there is such a thing. I just want a good dodge and am really into doing it right.

[Mopar1973Man]

Stock VP44 is fine... No need for any hot rod pumps. The reason why the failure is lack of fuel pressure and you have no way of monitoring the fuel pressure as your driving. Any thing under 14 PSI is marginal. 10 PSI is the bare minimal limit. Below 10 PSI your doing damage just like running the engine on low oil pressure. You got to remember the only thing that cools and lubes the VP44 injection pump is the fuel pressure that is return to the fuel tank. So if the over flow valve is open by 14 PSI it makes sense to keep the pressure above that.So now that point out you need a updated fuel system like AirDog, FASS or Raptor.More or less take care of the weak spots first before adding any toys to the truck...

[dripley]

I would have to agree with Gasser and Mopar. Here is a little info on helping take care of the new vp. http://articles.mopar1973man.com/general-cummins/36-fuel-system/63-adding-2-cycle-oil-to-diesel-fuel By the way, welcome to the site.

[Te300]

So as I me mentioned, I just got the truck. I've put about fifty miles on it and intend to put no more till I put fass one fiddy on. It came with no gauge and I will put one on. The guy I got it from put two matching batteries in and says a new fuel pump on side Of block, although it doesn't look new. In fact I can tell you by looking that it's not. Looks to me though that the vp is new. It's real shiney and still has bright yellow void stickers on it. The guy dropped of the Planet so I can't confirm. So what I'm asking is since batteries were replaced and vp " looks " new could those be old codes that were not cleared and also the " apps" should be re calibrated ? How do I clear codes after I put new fass on ? How much tea is in china? By the way I did the breather mod. My radiator looked as bad as the pictures on that other thread. I know I ask a lot of questions but I'm new to diesel and want to do the right thing.

[Mopar1973Man]

It's real shiney and still has bright yellow void stickers on it.

That's a factory OEM injection pump and its never been replaced!

new could those be old codes that were not cleared

Most likely not since the pump is must likely a factory original pump. Being that usually after the factory pump is replace you'll never see another VOID sticker again.

says a new fuel pump on side Of block, although it doesn't look new.

Most likely not but the factory fuel system is not enough to feed a stock truck properly anyways...

also the " apps" should be re calibrated

Wouldn't hurt to do it but it will not fix the current problems.

How do I clear codes after I put new fass on ?

Only with a code reader and using the ERASE feature. Disconnecting the batteries does nothing for error codes. The ECM/PCM can self erase coes after 40 warm up cycles if the code doesn't return in the 40 warm up cycles.

[dripley]

Your need a scanner to erase the codes. You could do that, drive the truck and see what comes back. You could also put a new lift pump and maybe get some more life out of the vp, MAYBE. I still have the void sticker on my VP connector, just never peeled it of, this is my third vp. The fuel pump on the block is crap along with the smalll fuel lines, just helps destroy the vp. All questions are welcome and there is no stupod question except the one you dont ask.

[Mopar1973Man]

I still have the void sticker on my VP connector, just never peeled it of, this is my third vp.

Interesting mine disappeared with the change of the first pump...

[dripley]

Interesting mine disappeared with the change of the first pump...

I gues its really only half. The half on the nonsliding part of the connector. Must have been some good sticky stuff on it.

[Te300]

Interesting mine disappeared with the change of the first pump...

What do you mean " my first pump" and " my third pump". I am whipping a dead horse aren't I I own an Audi a6 and the fun part about that car is I get to drive it from mechanic to mechanic and dump horrible amounts of money into it. So if I put a fass on and a new vp what your saying is it will happen again? How often? I don't mind maintaining a good rig but are these things just money pits? I didn't get a diesel to look cool, I got one cause I heard they last forever. If I spend enough dinero I could get the pyramids in Egypt back to oe too. Man I'm a little freaked out right. Now. I have three fifty on a t 100 and it only. Needs a t belt every two years and some fresh oil five times a year.

[flagmanruss]

What pumps are we talking about here? VP44 Injector pumps or lift pumps (fuel pumps)? I'm confused about "Void Stickers" I have no idea what is being discussed here.To the OP: I hope you got a good deal on the truck. It might just be the seller stuck you with a truck with problems. The 24 valve trucks like ours have the VP44 injection pump, designed for low sulfur fuel not the ULSD available now. A known issue is the OEM fuel pumps are prone to failure... barely adequate/inadequate when new... and a fuel pump (aka "lift pump") failure deprives the VP44 of fuel which cools & lubricates it. Sometimes The VP44 will survive this. Mine did. Often not the case however. Cummins went to a totally different injection system (Common Rail) in more recent years (which have their own set of problems). Many of us run 2 cycle outboard type oil (TCW3 standards) as an additive in the USLD fuel... hopefully extends the life of the VP44. (Perhaps why mine survived the fuel pump failure?)The FASS fuel pump you bought should be a good one, located back on the frame rail nearer the tank and preferably with a big line hoses & fittings.

[Mopar1973Man]

Ok... Here is the low down... The fuel system on these truck is terribly weak and need upgrading just for stock use. The VP44 injection pump will typically last about 100-150K miles on average with some pushing over 300K miles. The lift pump is the killer that ruins the VP44 injection pump. As for FASS, AirDog and Raptor they are all lifetime warranty pumps and typically live very long lives without much attention. I think mine is about 5-6 years old and over 100K miles on the AirDog 150 now. My VP44 currently has 146K miles and still going. As for the injection pump I know the weakness is the fuel lubricity so I've been adding 2 cycle oil to the fuel at 128:1 ratio to help increase the lubricity (reduce the HFRR score). So if you can hold fuel pressure above 14 PSI all the time you'll extend the life of any VP44 injection pump as long as the fuel lubricity score is below 450 HFRR... Fuel Pressure http://articles.mopar1973man.com/2nd-generation-24v-dodge-cummins/25-fuel-system/49-fuel-pressure-specification-for-bosch-vp44-injection-pumps 2 cycle Oil usage http://articles.mopar1973man.com/general-cummins/36-fuel-system/63-adding-2-cycle-oil-to-diesel-fuel HFRR Score testing http://articles.mopar1973man.com/general-cummins/36-fuel-system/68-hfrr-testing-of-common-diesel-fuel-additives

[dripley]

All good info from Mpar and Russ. I learned most of what i know about it from this site. The stock fuel system just was not good enough for the VP. Dodge replaced my first one at 75k and as far as I know did nothing with the lift pump. My lift pump went out at 145k and Dodge replaced that with an in tank lift pump, which was no better and probably worse than the block mounted one. My VP survived the lift pump failure which is not always the case. My VP also survived the the intank pump's crappy pressure. About this time is when I started learning about the fuel system weaknesses on the Dodge Cummins. AT 170k I put a booster pump to get the pressure up and that helped mine. It helped the pump but I still some dead pedal occassionally. I finally changed the VP at 220k. It was still working but I was afraid it might leave me stranded, plus I had the cash to replace it. My new Vp now has 36K. It is fed by a ADII, been on a steady diet of 2 cyle and i have fuel pressure gauge to keep an eye on it. I would not be suprised if it lasts the life of the truck. But as with anything mechanical, you never know. Just do your best to take care of it.My 2nd VP survived one complete lift pump failure and very weak pressure(0.5#'s at wot)from the in tank lift pump. Thats why I say it is possible a good lift pump like the Fass might get you some more life out of the VP, might not. Most do not but some do.I do not know of any way to tell how much damage is done.The VP and the lift pump are not difficult to install yourself it you are handy with a wrench. I did both on mine and had never seen the parts before or worked on a diesel. It is all pretty much bolt off and bolt on.

[Te300]

So I'll deal with it, happy to do so anyway. I started to tear out the oe fuel filter canister and pump just above the starter I don't have the fass till tomoro just getting started though. Is that tiny thing really the pump? Wow. Also it is not new as per seller. Oh well I'll put the fass on tomoro and give her a whirl. One more question though. Is the fas one fifty going to hook up to those tiny lines on top of tank? The seller said I got the 3/8 kit for fuel lines. I guess the instructions will tell me though. I'm ready though. I'll let you know.

[Mopar1973Man]

Personally I would do a drawstraw for a 150 series pumps... I'm running the old school Draw Straw I but never had any problems with it. Most will sell you the Drawstraw V series but you might fight with it at times.

Then I'm using a old school AirDog short bed bracket which is killer and tuck my pump behind the transfer case and guards the filter from offroad debris.

[dripley]

My ADII came with a kit to replace the in tank pump by removing it and installing a new pick up in the fuel basket. It works quite well. It is only 3/8" and I figure thats why is see a little greater pressure dorp than Mike does, about 3#.Good luck with the install.