Can we talk, or is it allowed to post about Obama Care?... couple Questions.....

[jlwelding]

Common sence aint what it used to be.

[jonathan1950]

"its ok to go to war if it means we are better off and secure our future" Nobody wants war, but sometimes there is no other choice. How do you deal with a bull? If you give into them they just take more, how do you deal with someone that wants to kill you and do not care if they die themselves? You have to stop them before they can do you or your loved ones harm."its not ok to spend money on illegals who cross our borders and the lazy people riding the system" I would rather spend money on people who are here legally that need it. Don't get me wrong, we should help those that need help, but where do we stop? Do we all go poor to help everyone? There are a lot of people that want something for nothing, I work six days a week, up to 16 hours sometimes, I do not expect someone to pay for things that I want. If I can not afford it, then I will have to wait to get it. It is not the governments job to make sure that I have health care, it is not the governments job to make sure that I eat healthy, it is not the governments job to make sure that I get enough excersize every day. People have to take respondsibility for their lives, not hand it over to the government. Don't get me wrong - I work hard and pay taxes. I just have a different thought process. Id quite easily tomorrow give up half my net worth if it meant more people live a balanced life. You can do this, donate to a charitable orginization, you do not need the government to take it from you. In fact I have heard that you can, if you so desire, give money to the government above what you pay in taxes. If you feel that the government can do things better than you. I do not think that way, I would rather donate to my church and let them help the poor, elderly and those in need. I do not know a lot about the health care bill, so I do not know if it is good or bad, but I think that if it is the government taking control of my health care, then the out come will not be good. From what I understand the government can now tell me how to eat healthy so that my health will be better and I do not have to visit the doctors office near as much. In the late 80's I was in the Navy. During my time in the service, we where given a 2% pay raise for cost of living increase, the same year politicians gave themselves a 50% pay raise, I guess it is nice when you can say how much pay to give yourself. We, the People, need to change how things are done. It seems that politicians, and not all of them, but some of them, are out for themselves. I wish I knew how to change things, it would be great to live in a world where people are not greedy, bullies or need help with their life, but it is not that way and life is not fair. I have seen several countries try to make a utopia, but in the end it is not substainable and the people at the top get greedy and do what every it takes to keep their power. If you think that the government is any better at purchasing things like replacement hips, they put bids out and go with the lowest bid, hello China parts. I broke my leg a while back and the doctor said that he would do his best to get me back, but it was a pretty bad break. I am doing real well now, but if it ended up needing my leg cut off I hope that I would not blame the doctor, medicine is not an exact science as far as I know. I think that tort reform is something that needs to happen, doctors do make mistakes, it is tragic when they do but I am willing to bet they are not intentional! I agree with dobienut that the wrong people make the wrong pay. A basket ball player makes millions while a teacher teaching your children makes only thousands, a singer makes bank while the people that feed you can bearly survive. Why is it that an actor that produces nothing can make 20 million a movie, while a person that produces a crop that ensures that you do not go hungry has to live on food stamps? People have their priorities wrong, I just wish that I knew how to fix it. Over all I would like a smaller government, most people respect the rules and are not out only for themselves. The few that are greedy, are the ones that get the most attention.

[JOHNFAK]

"its ok to go to war if it means we are better off and secure our future" Nobody wants war, but sometimes there is no other choice. How do you deal with a bull? If you give into them they just take more, how do you deal with someone that wants to kill you and do not care if they die themselves? You have to stop them before they can do you or your loved ones harm. "its not ok to spend money on illegals who cross our borders and the lazy people riding the system" I would rather spend money on people who are here legally that need it. Don't get me wrong, we should help those that need help, but where do we stop? Do we all go poor to help everyone?

Here's the thing. What does working hard entitle you to ? Do you work harder than the lady raising a family by herself, working 3 jobs paying minimum wage and cant afford to have her kids teeth fixed ? How about someone who came from a country where their life was in jeopardy for speaking out against something wrong ..... and now working cash construction jobs in Florida ? What happens if the US goes to crap on borrowed funds and you cant get a job or even milk (think depression) and your son/daughter tries to go to canada or some other country but cant legally work ? Will you feel the same way about support of healthcare to illegals then ? Honestly man don't get me wrong. I do not like supporting lazy people. I would do what I had to to help protect my family. I wouldnt not not help a mexican because he was hit by a car but was illegally in my country, and I wouldnt shoot someone because he was a bully or trying to take something from me. As for religion - well more damage and wars have been fought in that name than about all others - but that's a different topic. Yes I believe in god. No I don't believe he wants these wars and this way for us. In the end like I said - I guess its a different thought process. I think if we were ALL poorer - there would be less of a divide. Would you want that porsche/new car or 500k house if the normal for everyone was basic food and health, a 50k 3 bedroom and minivan. Everyone who works hard now thinks they are entitled to things and not thinking about people less fortunate to them. I'm not saying Im right either. Just trying to throw a different concept out there. I feel fortunate, Im not an illegal, not out of work, and lucky. I just dont think I deserve to right to tell someone else what he can or cant have/do because part of that money was mine and I worked hard for it. Wheres that get us as a society ? Finally - when your looking down at these people thinking all this about how hard you work and how much you deserve. Think about it the other way. How about the bankers and ball players you mention. What do you think they are thinking. Basically the same thing. They think you are lazy, uneducated and dont deserve things also. They think they are "gifted, harder working" and shouldn't be paying the high taxes on their many millions. They worked hard for it. Its always the "haves" that want to keep it from the "have nots". Its at the very core of our mentality/upbringing. I don't think that benefits anyone.

[ISX]

I think the problem that creates all these other problems is that everyone has a difference of opinion.. I don't understand why people who never care to work or learn any skills that would allow them to work are entitled to money from my paycheck. The problem is that if you get laid off, would you not want the government to help you until the economy picks back up and you get your job back? So now we have handouts, being handed out from those who still have a job, who now wonder why you get part of their paycheck. Then there are those on disability. I realize there are people who are actually disabled but it seems like there are 10 people who COULD work for every 1 person that is actually disabled. I mean I have had heart surgery, I could say it hurts when I exert myself, now I get disability and could do nothing for life. They can't prove I'm not in any pain. It gets back to greed really. We say the rich are greedy, but most of them have put in a lot of long hours and such to get where they are. Their kids will probably be greedy since they always get what they want and will always be wanting more. But how are those getting welfare checks and disability checks any different? I'm not talking about those who deserve it I'm talking about those who say their ear hurts so they can get disability. Uhh back to the original topic of difference of opinion.. Everyone has a way to say their idea is best depending on how they portray it. I could say every 18 year old should be given $50k to get the economy going by sending them all to college or getting them all into a house worth living in and I could have statistics to prove the benefits. I could also say every 18 year old should have to put in 2 years of hard labor to pay off the 12 years of hell they gave their teachers lol. There doesn't seem to ever be a law or something that always works in every instance, and thats where all the turmoil gets involved. I could look over the most profitable city's economy, finances, everything, and it works great there obviously, but when I apply it to the nation, it brings the whole nation to a halt. Lets say everyone in NYC saved a lot by riding the bus, so obama saw that and took the initiative to put buses in every city. Well now we got a lot of buses with 1 person riding them and yeah what works in one scenario doesn't always work somewhere else. I think everyone needs to be well more like what John said with all of us being poorer. But then where would the incentive for innovation be? Now you see the problems with humanity...if you do one thing it affects another. Same with what Dobienut said, free health care in Canada but that means the doctors are paid by the government a fixed salary, and they don't see the point so that is why there isn't very good health care there. People like to be thanked for their services.. The superstar thing is unreal. I don't see how we have billions of dollars just floating around to pay all the celebrities. But like you all said, priorities are skewed. You will pay $50 to see whoever at a concert and probably would pay anything for actually because you think you NEED to see them, yet you go home and complain about the $5/gal milk.. Milk is practically as essential as water, yet we want it to be as cheap as coca cola People complained more about $5/gal milk than $5/gal gas. I really don't care about $5/gas because I can simply change priorities to allow for the cost. Everyone on the news said they could barely put bread on the table because of the $5 price and yadda yadda but the same people had $300 iphones which inherently carry a $70+/month bill. Priorities.... You can't please everyone, but I have learned that you can do just fine agreeing with people. This works a lot better in a small workplace environment than the government though So there will always be turmoil. There are differences of opinion within this thread, but it works out if you look at it from the other persons perspective, rather than just your own, which I think you all have done here so it hasn't broke out in war yet lol.

[JAG1]

Common sence aint what it used to be.

As in common cents? .....Ain't nothin' common about the cost of anything now a days but, healthcare services??....Are the worst...... act like it is beneath their integrity to ask for a price before getting any of their service. Act like this...:nono: Personally, I don't like the 7 percent tax on when you sell your house to go to Obama care. It matters not if you have any equity too.... you still have to pay the 7%. That makes me sick right there:sick:

[hex0rz]

Whew.. talk about a long-winded topic...

[jlwelding]

Are you serious about the 7% tax thing?

[JAG1]

Are you serious about the 7% tax thing?

I am serious if it is true.... It was sent to me by email, a supposed exact copy of one the pages of the bill, I refused to believe it myself. It said you will owe it even if you have zero equity in the home.

[anoldbiker]

I didn't hear of the 7%, I read somewhere it's 3%. But it's a tax / fine / penalty from BO when you sell your home to pay for his healthcare bill. Someone has to pay for it, he won't, he and Congress is exempt from it, remember ? A gift from those who ruled the first two years of BO term. But hang on ... there is more coming. Somewhere I read there was 24 tax / fine / penalties total given to us in that wonderful bill. Remember Aunt Nancy said we need to pass the bill to find out what's in the bill. I can't wait for next November.

[hex0rz]

I didn't hear of the 7%, I read somewhere it's 3%. But it's a tax / fine / penalty from BO when you sell your home to pay for his healthcare bill. Someone has to pay for it, he won't, he and Congress is exempt from it, remember ? A gift from those who ruled the first two years of BO term. But hang on ... there is more coming. Somewhere I read there was 24 tax / fine / penalties total given to us in that wonderful bill. Remember Aunt Nancy said we need to pass the bill to find out what's in the bill. I can't wait for next November.

WELL SPOKEN! I received an e-mail on the issue. It said 3.5% tax on house sales.

[JAG1]

If this is true I can more readily believe the 3 or 3.5 % tax. Still on an average priced home it amounts to more than enough money going out. It should state that no more health care taxes will be due till the 3.5 % is used up as if paying the normal tax. Otherwise it's like stealing if you still have to pay the yearly tax. :spend:What's next.... our trucks unless we sell a prius

[hex0rz]

If this is true I can more readily believe the 3 or 3.5 % tax. Still on an average priced home it amounts to more than enough money going out. It should state that no more health care taxes will be due till the 3.5 % is used up as if paying the normal tax. Otherwise it's like stealing if you still have to pay the yearly tax.

What's next.... our trucks unless we sell a prius

Here is the e-mail I received and it also includes a link to their source for the tax and the rate:

HOME SALES TAX

PLEASE READ THIS. HOW THIS FALLS UNDER THE HEALTH CARE BILL IS BEYOND ME.

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[TR]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent]I thought you might find this interesting, -- maybe even SICKENING!

The National Association of Realtors is all over this and working to get it repealed, -- before it takes effect. But, I am very pleased we aren't the only ones who know about this ploy to steal billions from unsuspecting homeowners. How many realtors do you think will vote Democratic in 2012?

Did you know that if you sell your house after 2012 you will pay a 3.8% sales tax on it? That's $3,800 on a $100,000 home, etc. When did this happen? It's in the health care bill, -- and it goes into effect in 2013. Why 2013? Could it be so that it doesn’t come to light until after the 2012 elections? So, this is ‘change you can believe in’?

Under the new health care bill all real estate transactions will be subject to a 3.8% sales tax.

If you sell a $400,000 home, there will be a $15,200 tax. This bill is set to screw the retiring generation, -- who often downsize their homes. Does this make your November, 2012 vote more important?

Oh, you weren't aware that this was in the ObamaCare bill? Guess what; you aren't alone! There are more than a few members of Congress that weren't aware of it either.

You can check this out for yourself at:

http://www.gop.gov/blog/10/04/08/obamacare-flatlines-obamacare-taxes-home

I hope you forward this to every single person in your address book. VOTERS NEED TO KNOW.

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[JAG1]

I am a carpenter too so naturally some of my retirement investment is in the home I built. Always better to invest in yourself as it were. This healthcare tax is going to take a substantial amount away from my wife and I.

[jonathan1950]

Don't get me wrong, I have many friends that are not white. So are not here legally, what to do, I do not know, they call America home, but they are not citizens. I do not want to see them suffer because they are not legal, but I only make about $22,000 a year but do not qualify for any government aid because I am single, have no dependents and am white. If I do have to pay more in taxes for the government health care, it will not be very much as I do not make a whole lot to begin with, so I do not think that it will effect me a whole lot, what I do not want is some one telling me what I can an can not do, eat, drink or anything else. Today I heard on the radio that there is a professor that wants to ban sugar be cause he believes it is bad for us. If that happens, what else will they ban??? We are a carbon base life form, but yet the government and some others want to tax carbon output, that means that we can be taxed for breathing, as we exhale CO2, which is carbondioxide. Making everyone poorer I do not think is the answer also. It does not give anyone the incentive to try and execel. Would Bill Gates have do what he did if he know that he would not be compensated for taking the risk that he did? I think not, but he knew that if he succeeded he would be compensated, maybe not as well as he was, but he had incentive to take the risk. I agree, we need to do something different, but everything that I have heard about the affordable health care act is not what we need. I do not want to see people suffer, but if we keep going down the road that we are going down we will not be able to help any one including ourselves. People need to take responsibility for themselves, not turn to the government to take care of them. When I was layed off work, I started collecting scrap metal and taking it in, it did not pay a lot, it was hard work at times, but I did not go to the government and say I deserve a hand out because I worked hard and it was not my fault that I am not working now. Will that work for everyone, no, but if you find something that you can do til you find a decent paying job then do it, don't think that the government should take care of you. I work hard for a living, I don't think that makes me entitled to anything but my pay check. I am happy doing what I do for a living, I know that I am not going to get rich working on a ranch, I do not expect that, but I can pay for the things that I need and still have money to spend on my truck. I have to live within my budget, why can the politicians not do that? If it means that some social programs are cut back, then that may be the cost. I hear too many stories of someone in the grocery store using food stamps to buy food, then loading the bags into an exspensive suv, does that make sense? Some people do need help, but a hand out is not helping them, now we have some one that expects a hand out all the time, we need to give them a hand up, it is harder to do, but in the long run I think it is the better thing to do. I once heard 'that if you give someone a fish, you have to feed that person the rest of their life, but if you teach them how to fish then you have to buy them a boat, a truck to pull the boat, a rod and reel and bait!'