"built" 47RE woes

[dennhop]

Have you looked into testing the OD shift out, using a potentiometer wired into the TPS switch? Might help with the troubleshooting, having it locked at a set resistance, off a potentiometer, as opposed to letting the trans try and figure it out on its own... I can't view the link, since I'm still at work, but this might be the right thread, to show you what I'm talking about... http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/installing-potentiometer-place-tps-t142641.html

[MnTom]

I may try that, although I replaced it last fall with a Borg Warner HD one and a new pressure sensor.. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

Well, you answered that one. I am thinking along the same line as Denhopp. The TPS is what tells the PCM how hard the trottle is getting pushed and where to put the transmission as far as gears. Either try the pot or replace the TPS. NAPA has the TPS available. The part number is: CRB 219233 and the price is about $149 so the pot is way less money.

[Rogan]

Have you looked into testing the OD shift out, using a potentiometer wired into the TPS switch? Might help with the troubleshooting, having it locked at a set resistance, off a potentiometer, as opposed to letting the trans try and figure it out on its own... I can't view the link, since I'm still at work, but this might be the right thread, to show you what I'm talking about... http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/installing-potentiometer-place-tps-t142641.html

Thanks. I actually looked in to this a couple weeks ago. I will definitely try this prior to buying a tps and throw at it.. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

[MnTom]

I was just in a local Radio Shack and they had just exactly what you are looking for! All you would need is just the time and ambition...... Oh, and money...

[dennhop]

I was just in a local Radio Shack and they had just exactly what you are looking for! All you would need is just the time and ambition...... Oh, and money...

I don't remember spending more than about 15 bucks tops for mine! Lol

[Rogan]

I just picked up the parts today.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

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So I had a delivery today, towing the 20ft enclosed trailer. Empty weight is about 3100. Had about 1200lb of gear in it, so roughly 44-4500lb.

The property had a fairly steep grade, maybe 6%, and about 500ft of gravel/dirt lane, and very slow going, as there are some ruts and such.

I came out of there in 2HI, low gear selected, trans temp gauge ~150*F. By the time I got to the top (about 1 minute), trans temp was ~200F, and the entire crawl out felt "slippy" with the trans, which would account for the temp climb.

Later in the evening, I returned and picked up the unit, adding about 700lb to the trailer weight. I tried 2LO this time, low gear selected, same result.

I'm gonna end up pulling the remaining hair out of my head, due to this transmission..

[Rogan]

Works like a champ! OD engages about 41 and kicks out about 32mph. This is scaleable too;)Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

[diesel4life]

Woo Hoo! :cheers:So are you going to leave the potentiometer switch in or replace the TPS?

[dennhop]

I vote leave the pot in! Infinite adjustability. The other thing is if you ever decide to go back to the tps, you can leave the pot in place so if the new one ever goes bad, you already have it in place and sitting.

[Rogan]

Ok... premature. . It works great, but after 40mi of a 50mi roadtrip, it kicked out of OD @ 60mph. Takes a key cycle to fix it, but it will do it again shortly afterward. The trip to destination only did it once. Trip home did it 3 times and I finally hooked it back into the tps. I need to also find out why the trans relay in place will instantly go into limp mode. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

[MnTom]

Ok... I need to also find out why the trans relay in place will instantly go into limp mode. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

You should try to call Dave Goerend.

[dennhop]

OK, I'm on my tablet,so this is going to be a bit disjointed....but here's a bunch cut and pasted. And now that I think about it, I had that issue too, after a rebuild on my 97...billet single tc, goerend vb, and new clutches...

Customer Concern: Transmission is not shifting correctly. Can shift it manually and it will shift. No codes are stored. Tests/Procedures: 1. Verify the operation of the Output Shaft Speed Sensor (OSS). Repair as needed.

2. Verify the governor pressure sensor, it should be approximately 0.5 volts when the vehicle is not moving. This voltage should increase with vehicle speed. At 20 MPH it should be approximately 1.25 volts. At 40 MPH it should be approximately 2.25 volts. At 60 MPH it should be approximately 3.0 volts.

Potential Causes: Governor Pressure Sensor

Governor Pressure Solenoid

Output Shaft Speed (OSS) Sensor

Diagnostic Codes: None

Figured it out. Here's what it was for those who might come across this same issue.

1999 Dodge 2500 4X4, 5.9 Cummins Diesel, 47RE Automatic

The short of it:

Bad JTEC (computer), bad pressure transducer. Possibly bad gov solenoid. I don't know if the computer took out the sensors or vise verse.

The long of it:

I got a bad transducer from the parts store so I replaced it again and got .62v at idle, but when I put the trans in gear (wheels not turning) it went to 2.79v- way too high. I had 0 psi gov pressure at all times at the gov pressure port.

After completely checking the wiring (resistance, shorts, opens) and finding it to be in perfect condition, I started to check what the computer was telling the trans to do. This is where the problem was. I checked the control circuits for the torque converter, 3-4 shift, and gov pressure. They all had 0.00 ohms to ground at the same time. I suspected a short or a possible failure of one of the solenoids so I rechecked the solenoids, then manually actuated the solenoids one at a time from the C2 JTEC connector (unplugged). While doing that I checked the other trans circuits for possible shorts or crosstalk. All the solenoids clicked one at a time and the voltages were good. For some stupid reason the computer developed an internal short to ground on the three control circuits. I suspect that the fuse blew because all three solenoids were on 100% of the time, causing an overload of the 12v transmission circuit.

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Another guy mentioned two "disconnects" off the battery, one going to the computer and one going to the trans....only thing I can think of would be fusible links, if your models have that...they said they got rid of them and soldered them together and it fixed their limp mode...

Another mentioned he solved his with a stock governor assembly....I can't tell if you've done any of this already....tablets are hard to multitask on with forums!

Another thought:

hmmmmm dosen't go into first? so it starts in second..... if you manually select first and as it starts rolling put it in drive when it shifts does it skip 2nd and go to 3rd? if so then it is a line pressure issue and you need to install a voltage limiter inline with the Gov pressure sender wire in the harness..... also there is a sensor on the rear of the tranny.... from the tailshaft there is the speedo gear at aprox 9 o'clock IIRC and then a little farther forward at 7 o'clock there is a sensor that has 2 wires going to it..... this seems to me like it is your problem...... if the sensor was replaced the pins may not be the same size (slightly different per manufacturer) or the plug may be worn out from the constant vibration...... you need to go to Dodge and buy the new plug that comes with about a foot of wire with the ends already on them, heatshrink, solder connectors...... the part number is 1-05013950AA i'm not sure how much it is but that would be my first guess......

This guys solution.....

"The issue has been resolved. We installed a new electronics package inside the transmission. That did not fix anything.

We tested all of the leads from the PCM to where they went both on the transmission connector and to the power distribution center. They were all fine.

We swapped relays in the PDC, but that didn't fix anything. Turns out the ones we swapped might have been bad....BUT it took a resistor in the B31 orange wire that I noticed HAD BEEN CUT before we got the truck and then splice back together. I'll bet someone put a shift kit in the truck before and a mechanic or a dealer pulled it out while diagnosing the problem before we got our hands on it.

It took that resistor to drop the pressure code off, and then the installation of a NEW relay to finish the repair. I don't think the relay would have worked alone without the resistor. I think that code would have kepth the system in limp mode no matter what else was done."

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There's another thread on CompD talking about how the higher line pressures don't talk well with the computer...and mentioned wiring a resistor. I had the link cut and pasted, but then my tablet died before I could hit save....

[Rogan]

You should try to call Dave Goerend.

I called goerend a few weeks ago. Want me to buy a valve body or take is for trans repair.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

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So, in looking at the wiring diagrams, the trans control relay is as follows:

30: From Fuse #9 (20A) in PDC, 12V constant

85: PCM C2/B30 - Trans Relay Control

86: 12V Alternator wire (I assume it gets 12V when engine is running only)

87: To Trans 8 pin plug, pin #1 (12V feed to trans)

So with the jumper between 30 & 87, no codes thrown, but trans shifts into OD immediately after the 2-3 shift.

with the jumper removed and the relay in place, the PCM immediately goes into LIMP mode as soon as a gear is selected. Several different codes are thrown.

It did the same thing with the old PCM, as well.

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I did get a chance, this evening, to drop the transmission inspection cover. I wanted to get at least some verification of whether or not the torque converter was stock style or if it was a performance style..

The TC was painted gray. Turning the trans by hand, I found no markings anywhere on it. At least it was clean and dry

I did find a portion of the TC that had paint scraped off (possibly during manufacturing or packaging process) and behind the paint is a very shiny, almost machine finished body. That tells me that it's most likely a billet TC.

I'll most likely order another BW HD governor solenoid, but probably get the extreme duty one. I don't want to throw a lot of money at this trans issue, as I'm still on the fence of whether I save for a 5 speed swap, or save for a total trans rebuild..

:banghead:

[MnTom]

Well, Rick...... I have run out of suggestions for you. Everything I suggest you have an answer for!! I don't understand the relay problem. It just don't make sense. There has to be a reasonable explanation, but I have no idea what it is.

[Rogan]

Well, Rick...... I have run out of suggestions for you. Everything I suggest you have an answer for!! I don't understand the relay problem. It just don't make sense. There has to be a reasonable explanation, but I have no idea what it is.

Tom, I really appreciate your suggestions. There's not a lot I haven't done (within my means) in the past 10-11 months of jacking with this trans.. I didn't get a chance to test the relay pinouts today. I'll try to take my DVM to work with me tomorrow, and check some of the connections at lunchtime.

[MnTom]

Once you figure this thing out I really want to know what it is!!

[Rogan]

In an effort to determine if any of the 'built trans' stuff was legit from previous owner, I decided to pull the trans inspection cover and look at the TC to see if it was a billet unit. Checking it out, it was painted silver with no markings. I know the OE ones are not painted (none that I've seen, anyway). I scuffed a little paint off of the drum and sure enough, it's machined billet. I was also told by prev. owner that it was a Suncoast TC and VB. I called Suncoast today, and he said 99% sure it's a triple. I explained my situation and diagnostics to him, and his end result was "Without some technical results, I'd have to say either the TC is failing, and or the transmission internals are in need of repair."Duh.So, for $450 + parts and round-trip shipping, they can check out my TC after I ship it to them. m'kay..

[Rogan]

Ok so I found out why the codes with the trans relay in. No 12v on pin 86 (gen) wire. So ive temporarily patched 12v IGN to pin 86 until I can find the failure. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

[MnTom]

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We swapped relays in the PDC, but that didn't fix anything. Turns out the ones we swapped might have been bad....BUT it took a resistor in the B31 orange wire that I noticed HAD BEEN CUT before we got the truck and then splice back together. I'll bet someone put a shift kit in the truck before and a mechanic or a dealer pulled it out while diagnosing the problem before we got our hands on it.

It took that resistor to drop the pressure code off, and then the installation of a NEW relay to finish the repair. I don't think the relay would have worked alone without the resistor. I think that code would have kepth the system in limp mode no matter what else was done."

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There's another thread on CompD talking about how the higher line pressures don't talk well with the computer...and mentioned wiring a resistor. I had the link cut and pasted, but then my tablet died before I could hit save....

As per our conversation, this sure sounds promising! I will see if I can find anything else out....

edit: Rick, here is some info that I found:

I installed a 1/4watt 100ohm resistor in line on pin 31 orange wire and the coad has not come back.

Don't mind the spelling, some aren't very good at it. I am guessing he meant CODE!

Here is another:

i used 630ohms worth of resistors to get my voltage to 4.5. no more 3rd gear starts

cost about $2 worth of resistors. 3 -100ohm's and i 330ohm. with just the 3-100's it was at like 4.8, then i added the 330 it dropped to 4.5v.

[Wild and Free]

I am off topic here and haven't followed this thread much but have noticed that there is a 47RE swapped into a 1997 12V which should have a 47RH which would have been much easier to deal with and bullet proof in the long run without the electrical bugs. ect.