Talking about concealed carry by staff at schools

[joecool911]

I'm on the school board in my town. Been board chair for 3 out of 6 years. Anyway, we will be discussing school staff carrying concealed weapons on Monday. I don't expect it to go anywhere, but its on the agenda. I'm not really sure I want to push it yet. No school district in Oregon has done this yet, legislation is currently being kicked around that would make it not possible and its a very divisive issue for the liberal makeup of the industry. Currently citizens can carry in schools as long as they do not have an employment contract with the schools. I carry regularly. Keep posted for fireworks report and update on legislation.

[Wild and Free]

Hope things go well decision wise.Here in ND our legislature is in session right now and they have passed a few bills and made some more lax but then turn around and shoot down the most important ones this session.:doh:They did take stun guns and tazers off the dangerous weapon list, so they can now be carried concealed legally without a CCW permit.Another was to lax up some of where one can carry also, The CCW law prohibits cc at a public gathering like concerts and school events ect which they upheld but they now allow Churches to make the decision locally as to if and who they will allow to cc in their facilities, they then shot down guns in school even if if had to be approved by the school board and local officials.We can now cc in convienience stores / gas stations that sell lottery tickets, Since they sold loto tickets they were on the list of no cc allowed in any gaming facility, They are no loonger considered a gaming facility but it is still illegal to cc in a gaming and bingo facility.They then shot down another bill that would not allow local officials to cooperate with any federal official when doing any gun related cases to enforce any federal gun law signed into law by the feds after jan1 2013. Our AG "Attorney General" had a major 10 year old tantrum over this one and cried and whined at the sessions and they obiediently did what they were told to on this issue. He thought it would hurt the relationships between federal and state and local law enforcement agencies and jeopardize future relationships with and between them.Then they shoot down a bill to protect our civil liberties of privacy and will not limit drone use and research as we have a state university that is tied in with the Gov to develop and train drone technology at the UND aerospace school, god forbid we loose a few tax dollars from the feds to steal more rights from us, we are having a huge war over control of the major university system here in the state, they seem to be controlling the state versus the other way around. I am Sad and embarassed to say ND is the first state to use drones in an arrest of citizens, over a cattle dispute no less.:doh:ND does allow open carry only if you have a ccw permit or are on your own private property or anothers property with permission or while in an active hunting situation.They do not like to promote or encourage it though. I always have one with me but rarely on me while in public but while hunting am always open carrying although trying to conceal my hand cannons would be kind of hard anyways. I tend to like the BIG HAND GUNS, G20 10 mm glock, anything in .45 LC and 454 Cassull and have been looking for a S&W 460.

[joecool911]

460 is a great gun because you can shoot so many cartridges. I had a Ruger 454, but now I've just got a Rossi lever gun in 454. I think it holds 10 in the tube. That's a lot of fire power! I've gone to a 44 magnum in handgun. The 454 OAL is pretty much to the end of the cylinder. The 44 magnum OAL is way short. You can seat the bullet further out and get more powder in the case. Not much difference between the two and brass is everywhere and cheaper. The SRH's can handle well above SAMMI specs. But I tend to stay standard OAL due to the fact that I have a 44 mag lever gun too. Shoot the same loads out of both. 305 grain hard case lead.I've got a 45-70 which shoots 500 grain hard cast. Thats a thumper! I had that and my 338 with me this year. Wanted to shoot an elk with the 45-70. My buddy saw the elk on his side. I asked which gun. He said the big one. LOL. I re asked and he said 338. OK. I got out and went over the rise and they were 75-150 yards away. It's ok though. Downed a nice elk at 90 yards.

[Wild and Free]

What is SRH? Are you saying you can shoot the 454 rounds through your 44 mag hand gun?Most of my hand guns are mulit cartridge capable.My Ruger single 6 has 2 cyliders, 22 short and LR through one and 22 magnum through the other.Have a Ruger 45 lc custom Black hawk Bisley with 2 cylinders 45 lc and 45 acp.My G20 glock is 10 mm and most will shoot 40 through the 10 mm barrel but I have a lone wolf conversion barrell in 40 for it, the mags accept both with no issues.The Ruger 454 Cassull has been sold but still have all the ammo and reloading supplies which is why I want a 460 to shoot the 45 lc, 454 and 460 cartridges through the same gun.

[joecool911]

What is SRH? Are you saying you can shoot the 454 rounds through your 44 mag hand gun? Most of my hand guns are mulit cartridge capable. My Ruger single 6 has 2 cyliders, 22 short and LR through one and 22 magnum through the other. Have a Ruger 45 lc custom Black hawk Bisley with 2 cylinders 45 lc and 45 acp. My G20 glock is 10 mm and most will shoot 40 through the 10 mm barrel but I have a lone wolf conversion barrell in 40 for it, the mags accept both with no issues. The Ruger 454 Cassull has been sold but still have all the ammo and reloading supplies which is why I want a 460 to shoot the 45 lc, 454 and 460 cartridges through the same gun.

SRH = Super Redhawk from Ruger. No, cant shoot 454 through the 44 mag. Just commenting that the 44 is capable of just about as much energy with handloads as the 454. I've got a Glock 20C as well. Only reason I want a new barrel is to more readily shoot hard cast bullets. The 10mm is a great gun! 17 rounds of about 357 energy is wonderful as a self defense backup gun for hunting. OK punk, you're probably wondering if I shot 5 or 6 times. Well, no matter I've got 11 or 12 left. I carry an extra clip for the 10mm. That's 33 rounds on my hip. If I miss with all those, when it gets close the fire coming out the barrel will burn the sucker.

[flagmanruss]

I'm all for concealed carry... but CC should be so well done that NO ONE ever sees it. I pulled a plain clothes detail... I needed a prepie look... went with a V sweater & tie. I was querried if I was indeed armed. I had a S&W M36 IWB with big banna grips on it... under the sweater. Cuffs, 2 reloads. I think it might be a problem to conceal all day in class... I'd like to see teacher's desks with a lock box in the knee hole. There was a scare on a local college campus yesterday. Campus Police take the full training but are not allowed to carry. State Police & Local PD (where I used to work) responded & eventually determined the call was a misunderstanding. Campus Police were on scene in 1 minute, local PD in 3 minutes, SP in 5 minutes. CP know the buildings best of all, yet were forced to stand down. When seconds count, police are just minutes away. SP are recommending changing state law to arm the Campus Police. It's been like this forever.

[War Eagle]

SRH = Super Redhawk from Ruger. No, cant shoot 454 through the 44 mag. Just commenting that the 44 is capable of just about as much energy with handloads as the 454.

You are one braver man than I. 44mag SAAMI pressure limit is something under 40000psi while the 454 SAAMI pressure limit is 60000psi.

If you are saying you load your 44 mag up to the pressure limits of the 454 Casull then all I say is WOW!

That is more risk than I am willing to take. Be really careful with that.

[ISX]

If that goes through, I would do EXTENSIVE testing on them before they could carry in the school. I went through my teachers just now and I would only trust 5 of them in the high school to carry a gun. They are only the ones who are truly on top of things, could spot a threat a mile away, questioned anything suspicious and followed through with keeping an eye on their suspicions. The other teachers are either too old or sleep or other stuff that makes them a bigger threat than a solution. Kids watch the teacher all day, its very easy to see every single thing they do, every single place their stuff is, I mean you can figure it out within the hour. If you have a gun, they will know about it. If you have a weakness, they will know about it. If you are old, it doesn't take a ph.d to figure out who is weaker... This means there needs to be a common sense test based on all teachers' input. The 5 teachers I picked would probably get a unanimous vote from every other staff in the school. These 5 people should then be the leaders of all other gun decisions because truthfully, I don't think the other teachers would have a clue, if they did then they posed other threats such as depression or sleeping during class (so kid could walk up and take the gun) or other things you noticed about them that wasn't quite right. Juniors and Seniors could also be a big help because they have seen who has their stuff together and who doesn't. I don't think teachers who only see each other when they put their smiley face on (at lunch), really know the true side of each other. Students who spend alllll day every day will know. Common sense tells you which students are telling the truth and which ones have it out for a teacher who gave them an F. It's very complex and delicate. But I do think there are at least 1 or 2 individuals in every school staff who could carry a gun and would prevent mass shootings or at least be there with only a few shots fired. A metal detector would go a long way (my school didn't have any, even to this day).

[Mopar1973Man]

I've been open carrying now for a bit longer that 6 months now. I get sick and tired of trying to hide my 9mm that now I'm uncomfortable. So since Idaho is a open carry state I just open carry. http://idahoopencarry.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/IOCIdahoGunLaws-cropped.pdf Like I've just had a nice long chat with my local Sheriff of Adams county and found out there is only 4 deputies so 5 including himself to respond to anything. Typical response time is roughly 1-2 HOURS! Adams county has over 73 miles of highway to cover and then on top of it down where I'm at there is no cell service and no radio service either. So they don't like responding out here really. So even he was very surprise to see that I had my breast holster on and weapon removed (out in the truck). But very happy to see I was open carrying and had zero issues with it. I'm glad Idaho is open carry...

[joecool911]

There are some cities in Oregon that have laws against open carry. Portland for instance is ok with open carry as long as you are a CHL holder. Kinda weird. The Wilderness packs are pretty nice. They are a hybrid carry. Technically concealed, but it's obvious what you are doing. Bag with a flap over the top and comes apart on 2 sides with Velcro when you deploy your gun. Had a friend with one in red. Sewed a white cross on it. When people ask him what's in it he tells them, "it's my safety kit."

- - - Updated - - -

I hear what you are saying, but.

The Ruger Super Redhawk revolver cylinder in 44 magnum has the metalergy as the 454 and since the holes are smaller the cylinder has more strength. So the cylinder that holds the pressure of the 60k 454 can handle the 44 magnum with the bullets pushed out to the end of the cylinder like the 454 is. I know you won't find this info in a manual, but I know lots of guys that do it without issue with thousands of rounds fired. I would not do this with any other firearm.

We also monitor cylinder stretch. If cases are difficult to extract, then the cylinder has undergone stretch while fired, which expands the brass and will be hard to remove from the cylinder. We've never experienced this. My 454 would do this with max loads and heavy bullets.

[sngsht]

I hear what you are saying, but. The Ruger Super Redhawk revolver cylinder in 44 magnum has the metalergy as the 454 and since the holes are smaller the cylinder has more strength. So the cylinder that holds the pressure of the 60k 454 can handle the 44 magnum with the bullets pushed out to the end of the cylinder like the 454 is. I know you won't find this info in a manual, but I know lots of guys that do it without issue with thousands of rounds fired. I would not do this with any other firearm. We also monitor cylinder stretch. If cases are difficult to extract, then the cylinder has undergone stretch while fired, which expands the brass and will be hard to remove from the cylinder. We've never experienced this. My 454 would do this with max loads and heavy bullets.

X2 on the above-Ruger over builds their revolvers, I did a lot of research and bought a Blackhawk in 45 LC just for this reason. To give more flexibility ,ammo wise, I also went the convertible that has a 45acp cylinder .. It's far more accurate than I am ,plus I can handload the Long Colt's big lead up near 44mag velocities in the Ruger..